Glock 21 in Production

[underlug]

I am considering shooting a Glock 21 in USPSA Production.

I shoot the larger frame Glocks better.

How low power factor wise can I reliably go? Are there lighter recoil springs available?

I am thinking of using a lighter bullet to minimize muzzle flip. Will 165s run reliably? Any bullet shape a no-no?

Do the smaller frame trigger kits fit the 21 or do they have their own?

Anything else I should be thinking about? Will I just be compromising the gun?

[kevinj308]

Just for some info in my G30 I've used 3.5gr of Clays with a 230 LRN to get 660fps, pf 152. 3.5gr of Trail boss with 230gr LRN made 605fps with a 139pf, The trail boss load was about 90% reliable with a stock recoil spring assembly. I was really just playing around but maybe this would help you get started. If I were looking for a brand new load I'd probably start with the lightest bullet possible. Maybe 185's?

I'm a big fan of run what ya brung and have a good time, so go for it. Be safe and have fun.

Kevin

Edited December 5, 2010 by kevinj308

[soaringf22]

be careful with the lead in glocks you might want to look at plated bullets

[jbullgpd]

I am considering shooting a Glock 21 in USPSA Production.

I shoot the larger frame Glocks better.

How low power factor wise can I reliably go? Are there lighter recoil springs available?

I am thinking of using a lighter bullet to minimize muzzle flip. Will 165s run reliably? Any bullet shape a no-no?

Do the smaller frame trigger kits fit the 21 or do they have their own?

Anything else I should be thinking about? Will I just be compromising the gun?

Yes there are recoil springs available. ISMI makes about every poundage possible, find one that will work with the load you want.

No, the trigger with trigger bar is G21 specific. So are strikers and ejector housing. Disconnect and springs are standard parts. Most places that you can get parts for will show what models they work on.

Just make sure you test everything pre match to make sure you haven't compromised your Glock reliability.

[BlueOvalBruin]

There's a guy in our club who also prefers the large frame also and he shoots a stock G21 in IDPA in SSP. He uses plated 185gr bullets at about 145PF and they seem to work pretty well. The gun won't run on a stock spring though, he uses a very very old wornout stock spring but a 13lb ISMI would work fine I'm sure.

[Duane Thomas]

be careful with the lead in glocks you might want to look at plated bullets

Here, read this:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96559&st=75&p=1339755&hl=lead%20glock%20barrels&fromsearch=1entry1339755

[Z-man]

A great shooter at our local ranges got his master card with a G21 in production. He had to spring it really light (like 10Lb spring cut down) and the empties still leaked out of the gun. The darn thing worked though. I certainly can be done with minor loads you just have to tinker with recoil springs.

[David Sinko]

I used a Model 21 for a while and will probably go back to it in 2011, considering many shooters will be using that "other" design to celebrate some big anniversary. My suggestion is to just leave the gun alone and do nothing to it. Like some other shooters, I had begun to experience some pitting around the firing pin hole of my first Model 21. This was probably my own fault for not properly balancing the spring weights and then using some bullets that were a bit on the heavy side. I just bought a very early castaway police trade in that nobody wanted. I got it for a steal and I'm going to leave it completely stock.

As for ammo, I use mostly cast bullets and have had flawless reliability with the 200 gr. RF, a bullet meant for the cowboy action shooters and their .45 Colts. I avoid any and all bullets that have any hint of a sharp shoulder, such as the 200 gr. SWC and even some 230 gr. RN., depending on the mold it came out of. I have found that the second from last round will consistently fail to extract from both of my guns if the bullet has any kind of lip. Any smooth RN bullet should give you no problems whatsoever.

Dave Sinko

[soaringf22]

be careful with the lead in glocks you might want to look at plated bullets

Here, read this:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96559&st=75&p=1339755&hl=lead%20glock%20barrels&fromsearch=1entry1339755

Duane I know people have had luck with it. I just bring it up because Glock uses a polygonal barrel which is suposed to be more accurate but can be very bad combo with certain lead/powder combos. I just wanted to bring it to the attention of the creator of the thread just in case he was not aware.

[Flexmoney]

In my girlfriend's G20...with a 40S&W chambered barrel (not Production legal)...it will run my minor pf 40 loads (which are probably around/under 140pf, I forget). Those are with TG and 180g Zero bullets. The gun wears a ISMI recoil rod and spring.

The G20 has a heavier slide than the G21, so a mid-power factor load and a spring change ought to do just fine in the G21.

Rock on!

[BlueOvalBruin]

I have a 6” longslide G20 (lone wolf slide and .40 barrel) and that thing eats everything. I’ve only ran it with the 13LB ISMI spring but it will cycle short 1.131” 135PF minor loads and 1.200” 175PF major loads very smoothly. It’s slide is much heavier than a stock G21 slide so I have no doubt that a G21 can cycle minor loads, but you might have to play around with springs.

[dirty whiteboy]

200 grain Montanagold flat point, 4.3 grains "Clays", shorten oal to about 1.185-1.20

13 lb isma recoil spring on the oem rod. If I remember correctly I was getting about 140-145 PF, I don't think trying to go below this is wise, or necessary.Soft shooting!

If you choose lead, look at the S&S casting 45 LC 200 grain round nose(adjust powder)

[underlug]

200 grain Montanagold flat point, 4.3 grains "Clays", shorten oal to about 1.185-1.20

13 lb isma recoil spring on the oem rod. If I remember correctly I was getting about 140-145 PF, I don't think trying to go below this is wise, or necessary.Soft shooting!

If you choose lead, look at the S&S casting 45 LC 200 grain round nose(adjust powder)

Thanks. Nice posts

Edited December 11, 2010 by underlug

[3wide]

I'm considering shooting a G21 in production as well, good info here. I shoot in SS right now, could get a G35 or G34, but I'm heavily invested on reloading 45's. Switching calibers and restarting the stocking proscess makes my wallet hurt thinking about it. It would be fun making big holes in production!

[Front Man]

I had two and sold them in the ninties.

I am still regretting it. I have had the 19, 22 and two 21's and the 21 is my favorite model.

(Never shot a 35 though.)

A 6" model in 45 ACP would be awesome; I could use it 7 days a week!

FM

[Downrange58]

I loaded up some VVN320 4.7gr 200gr MG fmj fp with wlp primers, 1.25 oal and a .470 crimp for my G21. I haven't ran it throug a chrono yet, I just wanted to see if it would cycle with an #18 recoil spring today(I was sure it wouldn't and it didn't). I then tried a #17 and again it wouldn't cycle, I then put in a #15 and again it wouldn't cycle. Are many people using #13's or less? Can the G21 run at a 130PF as I was hoping for?

Open to hearing your thoughts!

[dirty whiteboy]

I loaded up some VVN320 4.7gr 200gr MG fmj fp with wlp primers, 1.25 oal and a .470 crimp for my G21. I haven't ran it throug a chrono yet, I just wanted to see if it would cycle with an #18 recoil spring today(I was sure it wouldn't and it didn't). I then tried a #17 and again it wouldn't cycle, I then put in a #15 and again it wouldn't cycle. Are many people using #13's or less? Can the G21 run at a 130PF as I was hoping for?

Open to hearing your thoughts!

You could try a 13# spring. BUT, even if you can get it to run with that load, I think it will feel sluggish. 140'ish power factor is going to be more condusive to the gun running properly. Don't get caught up in the 130 fp needed to reduce muzzle flip. 140 out of the 21 is a real treat!

side note: the MG 200 gr FP's did better at lower OAL like 1.190-1.200, better pressures to work the slide.

[ede]

i've never had great accurecy with anything lighter then 200gr. in a .45 Glock. i shoot a G30 in GSSF and my pet load is 4.4 WST and a 200gr. Precession moly bullet. very soft and very accurate. with the option in USPSA of changing springs running even lighter loads would be possiable. i have no problems with leading, clean the barrel every 1000-1500 rounds, or about once a year.

[Downrange58]

I loaded up some VVN320 4.7gr 200gr MG fmj fp with wlp primers, 1.25 oal and a .470 crimp for my G21. I haven't ran it throug a chrono yet, I just wanted to see if it would cycle with an #18 recoil spring today(I was sure it wouldn't and it didn't). I then tried a #17 and again it wouldn't cycle, I then put in a #15 and again it wouldn't cycle. Are many people using #13's or less? Can the G21 run at a 130PF as I was hoping for?

Open to hearing your thoughts!

You could try a 13# spring. BUT, even if you can get it to run with that load, I think it will feel sluggish. 140'ish power factor is going to be more condusive to the gun running properly. Don't get caught up in the 130 fp needed to reduce muzzle flip. 140 out of the 21 is a real treat!

side note: the MG 200 gr FP's did better at lower OAL like 1.190-1.200, better pressures to work the slide.

Thank you and Happy New Year Dirty Whiteboy!

From your post in the past, I believe you do run a #13 recoil spring on a G21? I will bump up my load to 5.0gr of N320 and run it through a chrono with the #15 to see what I get and readjust my thinking to a 140PF. Thank you for taking the time! Kent

[Harmon]

shoot 4.0 grains clays and 230 FMJ at 1.250 oal. it makes major and really isnt bad to shoot....even if you do get scored minor.

plus the gun works without F-ing with the recoil springs. Its clean and aside from the bullet cost, its pretty cheap to shoot.

it always seemed wasteful to load the mighty 45 auto to minor, even more so with jacketed bullets.

[Downrange58]

I loaded up some VVN320 4.7gr 200gr MG fmj fp with wlp primers, 1.25 oal and a .470 crimp for my G21. I haven't ran it throug a chrono yet, I just wanted to see if it would cycle with an #18 recoil spring today(I was sure it wouldn't and it didn't). I then tried a #17 and again it wouldn't cycle, I then put in a #15 and again it wouldn't cycle. Are many people using #13's or less? Can the G21 run at a 130PF as I was hoping for?

Open to hearing your thoughts!

You could try a 13# spring. BUT, even if you can get it to run with that load, I think it will feel sluggish. 140'ish power factor is going to be more condusive to the gun running properly. Don't get caught up in the 130 fp needed to reduce muzzle flip. 140 out of the 21 is a real treat!

side note: the MG 200 gr FP's did better at lower OAL like 1.190-1.200, better pressures to work the slide.

Happy New Year Dirty Whiteboy! I finally made it back out to the range with my G21 and a chrono. I loaded N320 with Montana Gold Flat Points and a 1.200 OAL and a .470 crimp at 5.2,5.3 and 5.4 grains with a #15 recoil spring.

5.2 averaged 761 fps/152 pf and the slide action was very sluggish with cases falling at my feet.

5.3 averaged 772 fps/154 pf and the slide action was very sluggish with cases falling at my feet.

5.4 averaged 769 fps/154 pf and the slide action was very sluggish with cases falling at my feet.

For giggles I through in a #13 spring and again the slide was still sluggish.

At 5.3 and 5.4 the recoil was very pleasant and controllable compared to the factory ammo I normally compete with and I feel as if I could load up to 5.5 and 5.6 (higher than VV max factor)and still be way ahead of the factory recoil I normally have. Accuracy was very good, it is just the efficiency of the slide action that concerns me as well as running

over the VVn320 Max. I have seen where many be forum shooters are running over the vv max. Any thoughts from anyone will be appreciated.

[Harmon]

my gun with a 15 pound spring is sluggish with 170 powerfactor loads.

i couldnt get a 13 pound spring to work 100% unless the gun was totally squeaky clean.

this is just my opinion though...with bullet prices the way they are today it seems to be a waste to shoot those beautiful montana gold bullets at minor power factor...and N320 didnt burn that clean in my gun even at major..

[Downrange58]

my gun with a 15 pound spring is sluggish with 170 powerfactor loads.

i couldnt get a 13 pound spring to work 100% unless the gun was totally squeaky clean.

this is just my opinion though...with bullet prices the way they are today it seems to be a waste to shoot those beautiful montana gold bullets at minor power factor...and N320 didnt burn that clean in my gun even at major..

Harmon, thanks for taking the time to reply! I am new to the game of competition and reloading and this has been a fun journey so far... I am going to run a bunch of rounds through with the #15 recoil at 5.4 and 5.5 and see if I get some malfunctions. I think you have sold me on the MG issue and I suspect after I burn up this 1000 I will try some moly coated 230 grain with Solo 1000 and just run my N320 for my .40 loads. Thanks again!