2011 MGM Ironman

[tgibson]

Last year we actually had a waiting list when the match was held. Up until then I was able to get everyone in that wanted to shoot. Due to the amount of shooting and length of stages at this match, more than four stages a day is impossible. The question is, should we split the event up into two seperate matches similar to USPSA pistol nationals? I'm not exactly sure on this yet, but we would do something like Open and Limited on Tuesday-Thursday, and Heavy Optics, Trooper, and Scoped Tactical on Saturday-Monday. Again, not sure on the dates but this is the basic plan. There has been some talk of shooting both matches. The answer is yes you could.

Just like pistol nats, we would have awards and prize tables for both events. OK...let's hear your thoughts!!!

Adios,

TG

[caz41]

I think it is a good idea to do it that way. As far as the shooting both events goes, I am all for it as long as there aren't people that are not getting shoot either. These highly publicized matches like the IM are the ones that the average joe like me, who may only get to go to one big match like that a year, dream about. If it becomes a warm up for the pro shooters before they shoot their "desired" class, then I think it is getting away from where you want it to go.

[tgibson]

I think it is a good idea to do it that way. As far as the shooting both events goes, I am all for it as long as there aren't people that are not getting shoot either. These highly publicized matches like the IM are the ones that the average joe like me, who may only get to go to one big match like that a year, dream about. If it becomes a warm up for the pro shooters before they shoot their "desired" class, then I think it is getting away from where you want it to go.

This is a great point. And this is part of the reason we are considering doing two matches. Mike has said from the getgo that our goal has never been to attract the "big" names, we just wanted it to be a fun match. Well over the last couple of years it has really taken off and become what I consider to be a really fun match....and the "big" guys started showing up. We still want the average joe to still be able to shoot. Thanks for your thoughts/input.

Adios,

TG

[ken hebert]

another option: keep the format like it is, pick one class and go with it, but essentially hold two matches back to back. one prize package per person. If you're going to shoot the first one and have to go, then leave a packet with your FFL info and $25 for shipping.

just another idea, not saying its the best one.

[tgibson]

another option: keep the format like it is, pick one class and go with it, but essentially hold two matches back to back. one prize package per person. If you're going to shoot the first one and have to go, then leave a packet with your FFL info and $25 for shipping.

just another idea, not saying its the best one.

Not quite following you on this one. Could you give me a little more explenation? Thanks.

Adios,

TG

[ken hebert]

expand the match time frame. instead of it being 3 days with 150 shooters (example), make it 6 days with 300 shooters. one entry per person. if youre in the first 150 and have to leave before prizes at the end, drop off your FFL info and enough funds to cover shipping what you might win, designate a person who will be there at the end to hit the prize table for you.

[SinistralRifleman]

I believe he is saying just have two groups of shooters and not segregate by division; group 1 shoots tuesday-thursday, group 2 shoots friday to sunday or whatever.

The problem I see with that is if everyone is being scored against each other in their divisions regardless of shooting group, the weather conditions (as bad as they can get up there) for group 1 could be dramatically different than for group 2. With that in mind it makes sense to have all the people in one division shoot on the same days.

[Religious Shooter]

The group that I shoot with has Open, Tactical and Heavy shooters. If you had a separate match for each division... that would mean we couldn't go together as a group.

How about just having two separate matches without having any ties to a specific division?

[tgibson]

expand the match time frame. instead of it being 3 days with 150 shooters (example), make it 6 days with 300 shooters. one entry per person. if youre in the first 150 and have to leave before prizes at the end, drop off your FFL info and enough funds to cover shipping what you might win, designate a person who will be there at the end to hit the prize table for you.

Got it. If we were going to go this route, we'd probably have twice as many squads and you'd just shoot one stage at 07:00 and one at 13:00. The next day, you'd shoot at 10:00 and 16:00. That way, everyone would shoot on the same day to adjust for crappy/good weather. Does that make sense? We could also do one prize table/awards that way. Only problem with this is some people would have to be gone for eight or nine days by the time they worked the travel in...and that's not counting how early the RO's would have to be there if they wanted to shoot the match too.

Adios,

TG

[tgibson]

The group that I shoot with has Open, Tactical and Heavy shooters. If you had a separate match for each division... that would mean we couldn't go together as a group.

How about just having two separate matches without having any ties to a specific division?

This is definately an issue. The way we split up divisions is not cast in stone yet, but there are going to be some people who won't get to shoot with their normal group...unless some of the normal group decides to shoot in a different division. On the upside, if they shoot a different division, they could actually shoot the match twice!!!

Adios,

TG

[Religious Shooter]

If you expand the time frame... I won't be going.

That's more vacation time than I would want to expend for one match. Great match. But is it worth it to me and to others to spend 5+ days worth of vacation time?

[tgibson]

If you expand the time frame... I won't be going.

That's more vacation time than I would want to expend for one match. Great match. But is it worth it to me and to others to spend 5+ days worth of vacation time?

That is exactly the reason we are considering going with two seperate matches...so we don't have to extend the match time. We don't want it to be like the SOF matches.

Adios,

TG

[D.Hayden]

I like the idea RS had about 2 separate matches. And not segregate by Divisions.

You could shoot Open in one Limited in the other or any combo you wanted. You could prohibit shooting both matches in the same division if you wanted, but that way you could always shoot with your group.

The only thing this prevents is having clear Division winners.. if that matters. It gives the most slots available in the time frame, without trying to balance to 125 (or whatever the goal is) between divisions. Since you always have to guess the participation level in a particular division.

I missed getting into it last year, after 3 years in a row, I hope to get in again in 2011.

[Bryan 45]

I think it would be bordering on impossible to have ROs work that match for 6 days. Might even kill one or two?

[tgibson]

I like the idea RS had about 2 separate matches. And not segregate by Divisions.

You could shoot Open in one Limited in the other or any combo you wanted. You could prohibit shooting both matches in the same division if you wanted, but that way you could always shoot with your group.

The only thing this prevents is having clear Division winners.. if that matters. It gives the most slots available in the time frame, without trying to balance to 125 (or whatever the goal is) between divisions. Since you always have to guess the participation level in a particular division.

I missed getting into it last year, after 3 years in a row, I hope to get in again in 2011.

The clear division winners would be the kicker on this. I can hear it now...

I'm the Ironman champion!

No you're not! I am. The wind was blowing much harder when I shot!

I don't care, it was 100 degrees when I shot!

So what! Wind is much worse than heat!!

etc., etc.

Good points though! We would have to base the participation level on years past. We have all this info and ST has always been the largest, with Trooper and Open about the same in second place.

Adios,

TG

[tgibson]

I think it would be bordering on impossible to have ROs work that match for 6 days. Might even kill one or two?

This is another huge concern. However, last year we had guys that showed up three days early to help set up, shot dawn to dark for three days, worked for two and a half days, and then helped tear down for a day. This is another reason I'd like to see this plan work...the RO's would then be able to work a match and then shoot a match or vice versa. Still away from home for the same amount of time, but a much more pleasureable experience I'd think.

Adios,

TG

[abn-rgr]

The group that I shoot with has Open, Tactical and Heavy shooters. If you had a separate match for each division... that would mean we couldn't go together as a group.

How about just having two separate matches without having any ties to a specific division?

This is definately an issue. The way we split up divisions is not cast in stone yet, but there are going to be some people who won't get to shoot with their normal group...unless some of the normal group decides to shoot in a different division. On the upside, if they shoot a different division, they could actually shoot the match twice!!!

Adios,

TG

I like what Sandra says "Make new friends!!!!"

[abn-rgr]

The group that I shoot with has Open, Tactical and Heavy shooters. If you had a separate match for each division... that would mean we couldn't go together as a group.

How about just having two separate matches without having any ties to a specific division?

This is definately an issue. The way we split up divisions is not cast in stone yet, but there are going to be some people who won't get to shoot with their normal group...unless some of the normal group decides to shoot in a different division. On the upside, if they shoot a different division, they could actually shoot the match twice!!!

Adios,

TG

I like what Sandra says "Make new friends!!!!"

[MarkCO]

Have you considered using a GSSF format over say 5 days?

[tgibson]

Have you considered using a GSSF format over say 5 days?

I don't even know what a GSSF format is so no.

Adios,

TG

[TMC]

He may be alluding to open squadding which would be a disaster.

After top 5 finishes to two years I shot this match was bummed that most of our regular squad couldn't get in this year because of the 3-Gun Nation hype.

Spreading the match out would be a solution but when it come to awards and recognition lots of folks may be home, I mean who wants to sit around for 3 days waiting for results.

Perhaps you could work out a smoking deal for competitors who want to RO on the days they don't shoot. That would keep them there and your regular ROs would stay alive.

[tgibson]

He may be alluding to open squadding which would be a disaster.

After top 5 finishes to two years I shot this match was bummed that most of our regular squad couldn't get in this year because of the 3-Gun Nation hype.

Spreading the match out would be a solution but when it come to awards and recognition lots of folks may be home, I mean who wants to sit around for 3 days waiting for results.

Perhaps you could work out a smoking deal for competitors who want to RO on the days they don't shoot. That would keep them there and your regular ROs would stay alive.

Just so everone understands what I'm proposing....I would like to do the first match that has two divisions...it will have it's own awards/prizes directly after that match is over. Then there will be a second match with the remaining divisions. It will also have a prize/awards ceremony immediately after it is over. I DON'T want anyone to have to sit around for three days.

Adios,

TG

[abn-rgr]

He may be alluding to open squadding which would be a disaster.

After top 5 finishes to two years I shot this match was bummed that most of our regular squad couldn't get in this year because of the 3-Gun Nation hype.

Spreading the match out would be a solution but when it come to awards and recognition lots of folks may be home, I mean who wants to sit around for 3 days waiting for results.

Perhaps you could work out a smoking deal for competitors who want to RO on the days they don't shoot. That would keep them there and your regular ROs would stay alive.

Just so everone understands what I'm proposing....I would like to do the first match that has two divisions...it will have it's own awards/prizes directly after that match is over. Then there will be a second match with the remaining divisions. It will also have a prize/awards ceremony immediately after it is over. I DON'T want anyone to have to sit around for three days.

Adios,

TG

I think this is a better idea. I think what people are worried about is some folks shooting both matches and some not even being able to get in.....6 days of Iron Man!!!! Not for the faint of heart!!!

[boomfab]

The only problem I see is for the guys that travel together from multiple divisions not being able to save a some bucks on the rental car and hotel.

And if you could find enough RO's that could take the punishment and days off work for that length of time.

[caz41]

The one thing that I can tell you, is that no matter what way you go with it, someone is not going to be happy with the outcome. There are pro's and con's to every proposal that has come up in this thread. Get all the facts, figure out the pro's and con's and the who is gonna be pissed and not pissed, and make a decision.

"If you build it, they will come!"