Choosing a .308 Bullet

[Graham Smith]

I've decided to get a bolt-action .308 with a 24" 1 in 10 twist barrel. This should allow me to shoot just about any weight bullet I want. Which opens up the "Giant-Sized-Can-O'-Worms (patent pending)" question of what bullet to start with.

I spent some time reviewing past posts looking for an answer to this. I found a number of replies regarding specific weight bullets, but not an actual overview of weights.

This is only going to be for target shooting (no hunting) - probably just paper and dinging steel. It doesn't seem likely that I will ever encounter a target beyond 800yds (more likely 600) so the need to look at the super heavy super long bullets is probably not going to be necessary. Plus the round will need to feed from a standard magazine so some of the ultra-long bullets are out of contention anyway.

I'm quite sure that there is a reason why there are so many different weights between 168 and 220 but I'm guessing that it's to find that one perfect bullet. But before I go through the exercise of finding the BC and median FPS and putting them all through a ballistics calculator, I thought I'd do the obvious thing and ask if there is a particular weigh range to look at more closely.

Also, given that the higher BC bullets are also heavier and have a lower FPS, is there some point at which the faster bullets trump the BC? IOW if the muzzle velocity is below a certain point, it doesn't matter how high a BC the bullet has it's not going to perform that well.

P.S. I'll be hand loading these on a single stage press to start with.

[Outsydlooknin75]

Ok, so you want the best BC you can get, still load to factory mag length and yadda yadda ....

168's are good to about 600 but still fly like a crankbait.

175smk's have a high BC but are slow.

Sierra 2156's is the part number that you want. Its a 155 with the BC of the 175, that means you can push em fast.

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

[Powder Finger]

I've decided to get a bolt-action .308 with a 24" 1 in 10 twist barrel. This should allow me to shoot just about any weight bullet I want. Which opens up the "Giant-Sized-Can-O'-Worms (patent pending)" question of what bullet to start with.

I spent some time reviewing past posts looking for an answer to this. I found a number of replies regarding specific weight bullets, but not an actual overview of weights.

This is only going to be for target shooting (no hunting) - probably just paper and dinging steel. It doesn't seem likely that I will ever encounter a target beyond 800yds (more likely 600) so the need to look at the super heavy super long bullets is probably not going to be necessary. Plus the round will need to feed from a standard magazine so some of the ultra-long bullets are out of contention anyway.

I'm quite sure that there is a reason why there are so many different weights between 168 and 220 but I'm guessing that it's to find that one perfect bullet. But before I go through the exercise of finding the BC and median FPS and putting them all through a ballistics calculator, I thought I'd do the obvious thing and ask if there is a particular weigh range to look at more closely.

Also, given that the higher BC bullets are also heavier and have a lower FPS, is there some point at which the faster bullets trump the BC? IOW if the muzzle velocity is below a certain point, it doesn't matter how high a BC the bullet has it's not going to perform that well.

P.S. I'll be hand loading these on a single stage press to start with.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cartridges-308-palma-preparation-and.html

[Graham Smith]

http://riflemansjour...ration-and.html

Thanks. Some interesting info there.

[G-ManBart]

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

The Lapua 155gr BTHP Scenar is another good option...not quite to the level of the Berger, a little less expensive, but still an excellent bullet. R,

[Graham Smith]

US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

I never would have looked at using a lighter bullet. That also means that a 1 in 12 twist is in play which changes some other factors.

[Outsydlooknin75]

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

The Lapua 155gr BTHP Scenar is another good option...not quite to the level of the Berger, a little less expensive, but still an excellent bullet. R,

The Lapua Scenars ARE a good choice, but what I have found is that you have to push the piss out of the scenars to get the most out of them. In order to keep the G7 ballistic profile on them they need to be over 2800fps, and depending on barrel length that can be a problem trying to get the FPS.

[RH45]

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

The Lapua 155gr BTHP Scenar is another good option...not quite to the level of the Berger, a little less expensive, but still an excellent bullet. R,

Those are the most accurate bullets I've shot out of my rifles.

Edited October 30, 2010 by RH45

[jaredr]

I've decided to get a bolt-action .308 with a 24" 1 in 10 twist barrel. This should allow me to shoot just about any weight bullet I want. Which opens up the "Giant-Sized-Can-O'-Worms (patent pending)" question of what bullet to start with.

my understanding is that a 1:10 twist will only stabilize conventional jacketed bullets up to approx 190 gr. Was specifically looking into shooting heavier .308 bullets and Duane from the bulletsmith tech support group told me that a 1:8 twist is required to stabilize 220 or 240 gr SMK's. if anyone has any experience to the contrary, pls let me know.

[Maksim]

168gr SMK's for me. Cant go wrong with them.

[twodownzero]

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

The Lapua 155gr BTHP Scenar is another good option...not quite to the level of the Berger, a little less expensive, but still an excellent bullet. R,

I've found the Lapua Scenar less accurate than the Sierra 155s (2155) and 175s. I'm going back to Sierra (and I'm going to try the 2156s).

US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

I never would have looked at using a lighter bullet. That also means that a 1 in 12 twist is in play which changes some other factors.

The 155 grain Scenars and Palma Match 2156 Sierras are longer and have as much or more bearing area as the 175 grain Sierra.

I use a 1 in 12, but if I get a new tube, it'll be 1 in 11.25" or 1 in 10". Supposedly the 155s will still shoot in a 1 in 13, but I'm skeptical of that claim.

[G-ManBart]

US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

I never would have looked at using a lighter bullet. That also means that a 1 in 12 twist is in play which changes some other factors.

A 1 in 12 might work, but keep in mind, bullet weight isn't really the factor that drives twist rates, it's bullet length (distance from the center of gravity to the center of pressure). The 155s mentioned are very long, and might be marginal in some 1 in 12 barrels depending on powder, velocity, phase of the moon and a little mojo thrown in for good measure. R,

[G-ManBart]

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

The Lapua 155gr BTHP Scenar is another good option...not quite to the level of the Berger, a little less expensive, but still an excellent bullet. R,

I've found the Lapua Scenar less accurate than the Sierra 155s (2155) and 175s. I'm going back to Sierra (and I'm going to try the 2156s).

I would expect that's simply a gun/barrel issue, not an absolute quality issue. I know more than a couple of folks who won't use Sierras, but will use the Scenars or Bergers, claiming they don't get uncalled flyers with the latter two. Most seem to agree that the Bergers are the better of the two, but they're certainly not cheap. R,

[kevinj308]

You might want to try this guy if you're loading on a single stage. You can buy a smaller quantity of bullets from some major brands and see what you like.

http://bulletsamples.com/Home_Page.html

Kevin

[Outsydlooknin75]

Berger and cheap dont go in the same sentence.

Ther are little tweaks here and there that you can do for ultimate accuracy ... some swear by measuring water volume on cases and weight sorting them, weight sorting bullets, bullet comparators that measure the from the ogive of the bullet.

Its all about how much time you really want to spend reloading and how much voodoo you believe in.

[M ammo]

155 Nosler Competitions.

I was able to get them durring the First Obama ,,, scare,, when I could not buy any other Match bullet,, at that time,,

I shoot them from my LR-308 have shot as good as a .5 at 200,, and playing with a new scope, I shot, .56 at 100 the other day.

I'll stick with them.

Jim M ammo

[ShooterSteve]

I think it all comes down to each persons "acceptable level" of accuracy. Going into all the little details will make a difference, but at what point is it worth it, for you? A while back I posted in the multigun section about long range stuff- and had someone tell me that my Sinclair comparator, and flash hole deburring, and primer pocket reaming were a big waste of time, and you didn't need to do all that stuff. Really got on me pretty good. Well last weekend I went and took my old 1986 Ruger 308 and shot two groups that were in the .4s. This is an old Ruger 77V, with minimal work done, floated barrel, bedded action, and a 3lb trigger. Leupold 20x scope. But the thing is, I prep my brass a good as I can without going crazy. I use Fed GMM, 44gr of Varget, and a 175 SMK. Just a good, basic, accuracy job on the stuff, and it shoots pretty darn good, (especially for a Ruger). A good bench rest shooter would laugh at me for shooting in the 4s because their stuff is so crazy accurate, but one ragged hole is good for me and I'm happy with my rifle, and the basic money I have in it. I don't believe stuff is voodoo, if you are truely into the accuracy side of it, but you may be talking of sending a rifle from the 2s into the 1s by doing the little things. For those guys it could make the difference between winning and being in 4th place. For my rifle, I probably wouldn't see the difference, so I don't worry about it. It does make me feel good to sit and send bullets into one hole. What I'm getting to, is you have to know what level you want, or are willing to spend, and then try to get there, and the most important thing of all is, enjoy getting there, and enjoy getting out and shooting.

[Ronnie j]

Hornady 178 amax with varget

[DaG]

I'm runnin' 155 AMAX out of a 28" Schneider 5P 1/12 with 46.5 Varget. Shoots very well at 1K. I just never could get the 175 SMK's to shoot worth a crap.

DaG

[Graham Smith]

Going into all the little details will make a difference, but at what point is it worth it, for you?

That pretty well hits the nail on the head. If someone is shooting benchrest, single shot, then it really is time to measure for the perfect COAL with a comparator and measure everything within 0.001 tolerances.

But loading ammo that will be magazine loaded and shot prone, siting, etc, then it's more a matter of finding what works well within those limits.

I found an interesting article where someone did a comparison between Lapua, Berger, and Sierra 155's and he found that when loaded to magazine length, there was no appreciable difference. The combination of Winchester brass, Sierra 155's, CCI primers, Varget, seems to be a relatively low cost load that performs as well or better than anything you can load without starting to get into the arena of single shot bench rest loads.

[RePete]

I have just seen this thread, so I'll put in my dimes worth.

The 1:10 twist is a great choice because of the different weight range for bullets. I think 220gr, though, is a wet dream because of the velocity drop.

I've run 168's (Sierra or Nosler), 175 Sierra's (haven't been able to get the Noslers as of yet), and the 190 Sierra's. All shot great with good velocity but I haven't chrono'd the 190's.

I beleive that it's all about powder selection.

I use

IMR4064 with the 168's.

RL15 with the 175's.

IMR4064 with the 190's.

Good luck.

[Ken Kwiat]

I had good results with the 155 gr. Scenar as well with Varget. Don't remember the exact charge weight but it wasn't hard to get 2800 fps out of a 26" barrel. That barrel's been retired for a .260.

Still, given the application that you stated, I see alot of LR Tac .308 shooters with the 155 gr. Scenar & 168s. I was still wacking the steel pretty good at moderate distance (425 yds). I never did shoot .308 at the Raton SportingRifle match for 800+ yard observed performance.

[twodownzero]

If you are rich you can buy Berger 155.5's but there is only a very slight edge over the 2156's. US Palma team are shooting the 2156's.

The Lapua 155gr BTHP Scenar is another good option...not quite to the level of the Berger, a little less expensive, but still an excellent bullet. R,

I've found the Lapua Scenar less accurate than the Sierra 155s (2155) and 175s. I'm going back to Sierra (and I'm going to try the 2156s).

I would expect that's simply a gun/barrel issue, not an absolute quality issue. I know more than a couple of folks who won't use Sierras, but will use the Scenars or Bergers, claiming they don't get uncalled flyers with the latter two. Most seem to agree that the Bergers are the better of the two, but they're certainly not cheap. R,

I can actually buy the Lapuas cheaper than the Sierras.

It's not a quality issue--it's a design issue. The ogive design of the Scenar/Berger style bullet needs to be closer to the rifling to shoot accurately.

I can't get to the lands from my magazine or even close, and so it's basically a no-brainer from the magazine for me.

I have a lot more of the Scenars and so I'll be able to do a lot more testing.

I highly doubt that it's a gun or barrel issue as you suggest, unless the people at the Winchester factory were hungover the day they cut my chamber.

I get 2899 FPS with 47 grains of Varget in LC cases.

[Graham Smith]

I've spent a lot of time researching both the rifle and the load and there have been a number of changes in equipment and purpose. The biggest change is that I'm going with a 20" 1:12 barrel which changes the equation. For this barrel, a 155gr bullet over a faster powder (like H4895) is a clear winner for both drop and wind and of these, the new Sierra 155gr Palma looks like the best choice (assuming a magazine fed cartridge). The Nosler 155gr is not as good on paper, but some people have reported having more consistent results, it seems to depend a lot on the rifle and the load.

Given that the temperatures are having trouble getting over 45 on a good day, it's going to be a while before I want to spend much time on the range testing, but I've got a hundred each Sierra 155 and 175 and Nosler 155 and 175 and will be running a series of tests to see which one and what load is the most consistent and which gives the best hits at 100 and 200 yds.

[RH45]

155 Nosler Competitions.

I was able to get them durring the First Obama ,,, scare,, when I could not buy any other Match bullet,, at that time,,

I shoot them from my LR-308 have shot as good as a .5 at 200,, and playing with a new scope, I shot, .56 at 100 the other day.

I'll stick with them.

Jim M ammo

Jim,

What are you running for a load? I've got a bunch of them around here somewhere, and tried some with Varget, and they didn't do real well out of my rifles. I've got a jug of Tac that I'm going to play with, whenever I can find some time.