Moly Bullets Leading Badly

[bill87123]

Been using Precision Black bullets for a while and don't know if it has always been doing it or if this is something new this year but my barrel is getting leaded very badly even after 100 rounds. It is so bad that it took me several hours of scrubbing to get clean. A buddy of mine claims he had previously shot 15K + of them through the gun and did not have a major problem in the past. He is also experiencing the same problems now too. Whats changed? What can be done differently if anything?

.40 cal

1.200" OAL

185 gr RNFP

4.4 gr WST

168K PF

Edited September 22, 2010 by bill87123

[The_Vigilante]

I use those bullets for my .40 and haven't experienced any leading yet. It might be a good idea to contact Precision to let them know of your problems.

[Cy Soto]

It is so bad that it took me several hours of scrubbing to get clean.

Are you sure it is lead what you are seeing in your barrel. I have never used Precision bullets but I have read many times that the moly will stick to the rifling and look like big flakes of lead. Most solvents won't easily remove the moly but it shouldn't affect the barrels accuracy like leading will.

[granderojo]

+1 On contacting David and letting him know you're having problems. He has a very good reputation for customer service. He will make it right if it's his problem and/or try to help get it fixed if it's something else.

He can't fix a problem if he doesn't know about it. Send him an email or call him. You'll be glad you did.

Granderojo

[DWFAN]

I can imagine them being very different, but my BBI's dont leave anything in the barrel that doesnt wipe right out with a patch or nylon brush. I would check your crimp, and also call Precision to see if they may have any suggestions.

[ebg3]

PM sent.

[blaster113]

I've been getting what looks like leading with both Precision and BBI moly bullets in the barrel of my .40. Powders used are HP38 and Universal. I'm able to get the gunk out with regular solvent and a few passes with a Brownells Doubletuff bronze bore brush.

[pivoproseem]

I had the same problem in my Tanfoglio Limited with the Precision moly and Solo 1000. Tried some BBI bullets, problem disappeared, the barrel was easy to clean, not the extreme chore it was with the Precisions.

Been using Precision Black bullets for a while and don't know if it has always been doing it or if this is something new this year but my barrel is getting leaded very badly even after 100 rounds. It is so bad that it took me several hours of scrubbing to get clean. A buddy of mine claims he had previously shot 15K + of them through the gun and did not have a major problem in the past. He is also experiencing the same problems now too. Whats changed? What can be done differently if anything?

.40 cal

1.200" OAL

185 gr RNFP

4.4 gr WST

168K PF

[blaster113]

I noticed the same thing with the Precisions vs. the BBI's; the BBI's seemed a little easier to clean out. Both bullets were extremely accurate out of my Edge.

[CocoBolo]

The secret is in the loading process.

1. Bell the case enough that it is not cutting the coating. Look for this around the rim of the case and for flakes on the shell plate.

2. DO NOT USE A LEE FCD CRIMP DIE.

3. Give it a good Crimp with a taper crimp die.

I have shot many thousands of rounds of Precision 185 thru my STI's with no leading. The more you shoot the less there is. I use WST but enough to make major 4.7 local 4.8 major match for 172pf.

Removing build up is done with a choreboy wrapped around a brush. For final cleaning use a little JB bore paste or Flitz, looks like a mirror in there.

From the OAL it looks like your shooting a S_I or Para, so you should be good.

[bbbean]

I noticed the same thing with the Precisions vs. the BBI's; the BBI's seemed a little easier to clean out. Both bullets were extremely accurate out of my Edge.

I've had just the opposite experience. Precisions run and leave my Schuemann non-AET barrel clean enough that my local smith assumed I was running FMJ. BBI, on the other hand leaves enough residue in the chamber that if I don't clean the chamber every 150 rounds or so, I start getting rounds that don't want to seat fully. Both are accurate and consistent otherwise.

[bill87123]

Thanks for all the replies. I have been planning on calling Dave now for a few days just never seem to free up enough to get the chance.

[bill87123]

Are you sure it is lead what you are seeing in your barrel. I have never used Precision bullets but I have read many times that the moly will stick to the rifling and look like big flakes of lead. Most solvents won't easily remove the moly but it shouldn't affect the barrels accuracy like leading will.

I have a Lewis Lead Remover kit that gets half of it or so, mostly the stuff near the throat of the barrel. Then the other half a scrub brush and a lot of scrubbing, as the last little bit by the end of the barrel next to the lands is a bear, but maybe thats moly not lead? Even though when I run a patch scrubbing it comes up with shinny lead looking flakes on it.

Edited September 22, 2010 by bill87123

[bill87123]

Called Dave and learned of the peroxide vinegar solution to help clean the barrel that I will try. Also said to make sure I have enough bell mouth on the case to not be cutting any of the Moly. I never saw any shavings but I do think my bell mouth was on the small side so I will open that up some. Hopefully it will work because I like they way they shoot and I have a lot of them.

[granderojo]

Dillon recommends a min. of .010" bell on the brass. I use about .012-.014". The bullets sit better in the brass and less chance of dinging the coating.

Granderojo

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Are you sure it is lead? It could be just the moly coating in the barrel. I used to worry about it and then finally said I will just keep shooting it. The coating never built up any more and the accuracy did not change. My Kimber was the worst barrel and the Schuemann the best. I crimp the case just 0.002" less than the case diameter 1/8" from the top. So if the case is 0.357" then the crimp will be 0.355". Make sense? I also use the bullet puller hammer to see if the bullet comes out without removing the coating. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[bill87123]

Ya definatly some lead in there. I cleaned the heck out of it, shot 100 rounds then checked it. Accuracy seemed to be fine but pulled a ton of lead out of it with the Lewis Lead Remover, and there was still some bumpy looking things left in there after that. There was also some gray looking stuff near the end of the barrel that I assumed was lead but maybe that was moly, and that was the hardest stuff to clean out. I am going to try it again and this time see how well it cleans up with the vinegar/peroxide dip.

I like the idea of pulling one apart with the hammer and see if the coating has been compromised, I will try that this weekend and maybe that will help explain what is going on.

I don't recall right now how much I am crimping them so I will also go check that.

Edited September 24, 2010 by bill87123

[granderojo]

FYI

The vinagar and peroxide treatment is for STAINLESS barrels ONLY! If you use it on a steel barrel, you just ruined it! It will pit the metal big time.

Edited September 24, 2010 by granderojo

[noylj]

The only way you can get leading with Precision bullets is if you are damaging the coating during bullet seating or crimping. I have heard some people confuse the Moly-Kote residue for leading. Use a kinetic bullet puller and see if your coating is damaged.

I use Precision bullets and have no loading or Moly residue.

If leading, either use some Chore Boy copper mesh over a brush or get an Outer's Foul-Out. Determine where you are damaging the coating.

[bill87123]

FYI

The vinagar and peroxide treatment is for STAINLESS barrels ONLY! If you use it on a steel barrel, you just ruined it! It will pit the metal big time.

No worries its a stainless barrel Thanks for the caution however.

[bill87123]

The only way you can get leading with Precision bullets is if you are damaging the coating during bullet seating or crimping. I have heard some people confuse the Moly-Kote residue for leading. Use a kinetic bullet puller and see if your coating is damaged.

I use Precision bullets and have no loading or Moly residue.

If leading, either use some Chore Boy copper mesh over a brush or get an Outer's Foul-Out. Determine where you are damaging the coating.

Pulled a couple bullets today and not a scratch on them.

[noylj]

Well! What can I say. I have never gotten leading from any Precision bullet. I have gotten moly-kote in the barrel. Never hurt accuracy or function. I just soak my barrel in Hoppe's #9 or Acetone/MEK/mineral spirits every few 1000 rounds or when I feel like it. I think some times that they are putting too thick a coating on. If this was true for you, a high velocity load might just strip the coating off in the barrel if the bullet can't grip the rifling. However, that would also cause extremely bad accuracy and keyholing.

There would have to be something that is cutting through the Moly-Kote even to get any lead to contact the barrel, much less deposit lead.

You did start with a clean barrel?

If you are getting leading, I recommend an Outer's Foul-Out III or some copper Chore-Boy on a brass brush to get rid of the lead—much "safer" than vinegar and peroxide (you do have a stainless barrel, right?).

[salilus]

I have been shooting Moly exclusively for the last 25K or so in both .40 an 9mm. Nothing goes down my barrels except bullets. A lot of "shot out" barrels are from over cleaning instead of shooting. I used to clean them every time I shot them. I started to notice that the barrel would lose its shine after I cleaned it. The more I shot, the shinier and shinier it got. There is an article out there about how the moly will actually fill the microscopic cracks in the barrel and make it smooth. You will see a little streaking in the barrel but that isn't going to hurt anybody.

-Tray

[bill87123]

I was reading an article on Schuemann's web site that said the same thing about worn out barrels from solvents and over cleaning. Makes me want to go out and Slug my barrel... bet its toast.

[sirveyr]

As others have stated, I think that a lot of the "leading" that people are always talking about is the moly coating residue. I have been shooting moly bullets for years and the only thing that was left in any of my barrels was some "moly streaking". I've shot both BBI and Precision in 9mm, 45 and 40 through both factory and after market barrels. I even shoot them though all of my factory Glock barrels. I have found the best way to get the residue out of the barrel is with the 49% vinegar, 48% peroxide and 3% beef boullion. Actually, you can leave out the beef boullion, but be sure to adjust the vinegar/peroxide ratio if doing so. I let it soak for about 5 minutes and then run 2-3 patches though the barrel. Rinse with tap water or Perrier bottled water if you have one of those fancy S_I guns. I follow that with a brass bore brush and some CPL/WD-40/PB Blaster/or some thing with baby seal extract in it if you have one of those fancy S_I guns. I then run 2-3 more patches. Then I look into the barrel, see that it is clean and reassemble. However, YMMV...

ETA: I am using Tite Group (occasionally Universal Clays) for all of my moly loads.

Edited November 14, 2010 by sirveyr