New open gun caliber and choice

[RBros]

I have shot some Limited class matches and tactical matches with my Glock 35 and was going to build an open glock, but I really like the looks of the STI guns and have always wanted one. Downside is the mag cost. I have seen some used one's in the classifieds that really aren't much more than the cost of a glock and all the parts to make it run in open.

My question is this.....If you were to start off in open, what caliber would you start with and what gun?

I know 9mm brass is cheaper and a guy doesn't really have to pick it up vs a 38 super/SC, but it seems like most guys are picking up there brass or loosing very few over a season from the searching I have done. I know a few guys running 9mm major and they seem to be happy with it, but the Super has been around longer in this game and is certainly proven. The Glock's can be competitive in open...Sevigny, but it seems to take more to keep them running. Not that I am at that level, but I really don't want to fight a gun from the beginning and accuracy is important to me.

[Y. Koester]

I would almost always go with the 9mm for open and for many reasons. One reason, cheap brass

. Reason number two is that they do run if you have a good smith build it. Reason #3 would be I don't want to pick up brass when I am at a match, I want to be thinking about

the next stage. Plus the brass is way cheaper. The only time I would go with super is if i already had a ton of brass for it.

This stuff has been hashed out many times already.

[G-ManBart]

There are a ton of threads on this...the only problem is that it will take a long time to read it all. Just scroll back and even 20 pages deep is only a year old or so (still current info).

.38SC is almost certainly the easiest to get running, has the most choices in powder/bullet combos and will likely give you less headaches. Yes, you'll lose some brass, but if you reuse what you can pick up, the cost isn't going to be dramatically different from 9 Major if you have to buy it, shoot it once, and leave it.

I mark my SC brass and get almost all of it back at most matches (except majors) and literally get 99% of it back from practice sessions. I'll load it ten times and then toss it. I get it from Angus at $123/K, so it's just a bit more than a penny per use. I don't know anybody that can buy 9x19 nearly that cheap.

I think most folks are best served by a pretty traditional 5" gun...it takes a while behind Open guns before you'll see much difference in your shooting with one configuration over another.

If you haven't shot an Open gun before, you should really ask folks at your club(s) if you can try theirs to get a feel for them. Some folks shoot one once, and don't like them at all. R,

Edited September 3, 2010 by G-ManBart

[RBros]

Thanks Guys,

I have spent the last week reading through all the search info on this subject. There are so many different opinions on what works, and what a guy should start with. I did play with an open guy that a buddy has and it was alot of fun. I didn't shoot a match, but we did practice some with it. His gun is a 9 major and he doesn't pickup the brass, but said its a little finicky at times.

[BLUTO]

I certainly dont qualify as an expert opinion here but I can tell you from experience - go STI 38 super and skip right past all the wasting money.

Ive got a G35 that I shot for 2 years all the while thinking I had lost any ability to hit like I wanted/used too.

I came up with every reason in the book why I couldnt run the gun like I wanted to - grip angle, sights, weight.

So now I own a G35 with various mag wells to add weight, numerous sights, a CCF race frame with 1911 angle insert as well as all the parts to rig it over to an open runner.

Still cant run it like I want.

Got frustrated finally and decide to get a REAL open gun. Bought a Bedell (?) STI in 40. Spent the money to have it "fit" me a bit better, all the mags, and goodies. Yes, I can run the gun the way I want. Amazingly it shoots better than I do

Worked up an open load that runs flat and fast.

Of course I have to change mags a bit more than the super boys but at least Im hitting like I want.

But then.......

I got to run a 38 Super and the differences were night and day - cant really explain, but the end result is I now own a G35 sitting on a shelf, a 40 STI sitting on a shelf, and a 38 Super STI that I wouldn't trade to save my life.

Your correct mags and brass cost a bit more but the benefits outweigh the % of cost in my opinion. And for the record Daves Glock has the markings on the slide but I'm not sure Gaston would recognize most of the parts inside it. Glock's are excellent guns, accurate, reliable, etc, but in the end they are designed as combat pistols where "minute of torso" is the goal.

Skip a few steps in the frustration/learning curve and just get the 38 Super. My non expert opinion.

Edited September 3, 2010 by domfort

[lcs]

I started in open with 9 Major because of "cheap brass" and I did not have to pick brass up. I now shoot 38SC. The benefits of 38SC far out weigh 9 Major in my book. My 38SC brass may cost more in the long run, but (IMO) 38SC gives you more options. You will find 9 Major guns are more $$$ and if you use a standard C-more mount, require more attention due to ejection patterns. 9 Major mags will require a lot more attention also. You can pick up a used 38Super/SC in great condition easier and cheaper than a 9 Major. Mags for 38SC run right out of the box.

[RBros]

Is there a difference in the chamber in a 38 SuperComp vs a 38 Super? Or is it just in the brass being rimless? I'm sure the extractor needs tuning for 100% reliability.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I shoot 9mm open because of the once fired brass I can get cheap. I have loaded some of my brass 4 times now and no problems. I am using 115 grain bullets and a choice of 3 powders. I use Silhouette, HS-6 and 3N37 powders. My guns run 100% but I do keep them clean and oiled. I also tune my own mags and clean and check them. It is true that you have more choices with 38 super or super comp with powders. But in the end you decide on one powder and use it for a while or years. I do suggest you get a 9mm from someone who knows them well. I like Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports since he has been around a long time and built some 9mm open guns for some great world known shooters Thanks, Eric

[Pezco]

I'm in the camp of 38SC. I mark my brass and get most of it back at local matches and 99%+ during practice. I have just received my 2nd 38SC gun which runs flawlessly just as my first does.

[lcs]

Is there a difference in the chamber in a 38 SuperComp vs a 38 Super? Or is it just in the brass being rimless? I'm sure the extractor needs tuning for 100% reliability.

Major difference is the brass. Some open 38/38SC guns will shoot both types of brass with no problems, I think the norm would be the extractor is tuned to one or the other and you shoot what you tune for. Slight advantage with mags goes to 38SC being able to fit one more in the mag.

[Jman]

My G17 Major 9 Open gun cost ~$1,200 total. I smoke A LOT of pretty guns costing 3 times that regularly. Just sayin'.

[G-ManBart]

Is there a difference in the chamber in a 38 SuperComp vs a 38 Super? Or is it just in the brass being rimless? I'm sure the extractor needs tuning for 100% reliability.

No difference in the chamber. The extractor is different if you use an AFTEC, or tuned differently if it's a standard extractor. .38SC has about .03" of rim on each side to Super's .07" (or so) per side. SC also has a thicker web area (less likely to get a blowout) and that means you'll normally use a couple of tenths less powder to get the same velocity compared with Super. There are some other subtle differences, but those are the biggies. R,

[RBros]

My G17 Major 9 Open gun cost ~$1,200 total. I smoke A LOT of pretty guns costing 3 times that regularly. Just sayin'.

Jman,

I haven't ruled that out completely yet. It might just be a great way to get started then upgrade later if I feel the need. Being an FFL holder and building custom rifles, I could put together an open glock in an economical fashion. In dollar terms, the STI is really not that much more if I am putting it together.

Edited September 3, 2010 by RBros

[GrumpyOne]

This topic comes up about every 4 weeks or so....hundreds of pages about it. So please guys, let's not rehash the same things over and over...You like 9mm mj, I like 38 super mj, he likes 38 sc mj, and point them to a thread.....

[T.McDevitt]

I started in open with 9 Major because of "cheap brass" and I did not have to pick brass up. I now shoot 38SC. The benefits of 38SC far out weigh 9 Major in my book. My 38SC brass may cost more in the long run, but (IMO) 38SC gives you more options. You will find 9 Major guns are more $$ and if you use a standard C-more mount, require more attention due to ejection patterns. 9 Major mags will require a lot more attention also. You can pick up a used 38Super/SC in great condition easier and cheaper than a 9 Major. Mags for 38SC run right out of the box.

In my opinion, and you said it your self.. you can pick up a 38 Super/SC easier & cheaper than a 9mm Major.. Their is a reason for that I think it's supply & demand could it be more people want 9mm Major. I have both my 9mm Major runs perfect and I'm on my 4th reload and brass seems fine so far.

[G-ManBart]

In my opinion, and you said it your self.. you can pick up a 38 Super/SC easier & cheaper than a 9mm Major.. Their is a reason for that I think it's supply & demand could it be more people want 9mm Major. I have both my 9mm Major runs perfect and I'm on my 4th reload and brass seems fine so far.

People see what they want to see. I've seen Super/SC guns sold in the classifieds that were more expensive than any of the recent 9 Major guns. I also bought the cheapest S_I Open gun I've ever seen listed...9 Major for $1300

If ammo/brass/components/etc were free for the asking, what would most folks use/build/buy/have built? That's the real question. Everything else is just a compromise (which may be totally reasonable depending on what's important to you). R,

[GrumpyOne]

In my opinion, and you said it your self.. you can pick up a 38 Super/SC easier & cheaper than a 9mm Major.. Their is a reason for that I think it's supply & demand could it be more people want 9mm Major. I have both my 9mm Major runs perfect and I'm on my 4th reload and brass seems fine so far.

People see what they want to see. I've seen Super/SC guns sold in the classifieds that were more expensive than any of the recent 9 Major guns. I also bought the cheapest S_I Open gun I've ever seen listed...9 Major for $1300

If ammo/brass/components/etc were free for the asking, what would most folks use/build/buy/have built? That's the real question. Everything else is just a compromise (which may be totally reasonable depending on what's important to you). R,

Well put! If brass were free, what open caliber would you choose? That sounds like a very good opputunity for a poll!

[RH45]

Open guns seem to be pickier than limited guns, regardless of caliber.

I have one in .38SC, and one in 9mm, and like them both. They will both hold under 1 1/2" at 50 yards with me behind them, and I'm sure they would do better with a good shooter behind them.

I can't get the 9 to reliably run with STI mags, and only use SVI mags in it. I also run nothing but Winchester brass through the 9. It seems to be more consistant.

Years ago, I swore I'd never go to open, but, as I'm getting a little older, and my vision is getting worse......

[Tzygä]

I think there is only two choices 38 supercomp or 9 major. Both have good and bad sides. You decide what is important to you.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Tzygä