1911 doubling

[Mattog22]

Just picked up a Trojan and had it at the range and on 3 different occasions I've had it double on me. It has had a trigger job done before I got it but once I got it I changed mainspring housings. When I changed mainspring housings I left the 17# mainspring in the housing. I believe the spring that was in it was a stock one and am going to put it back in. Would this cause it to sometimes double? It's the only thing Ive changed and I just wanted to know if there is anything else I can check before I get back out to the range to try it out.

[steel1212]

Just picked up a Trojan and had it at the range and on 3 different occasions I've had it double on me. It has had a trigger job done before I got it but once I got it I changed mainspring housings. When I changed mainspring housings I left the 17# mainspring in the housing. I believe the spring that was in it was a stock one and am going to put it back in. Would this cause it to sometimes double? It's the only thing Ive changed and I just wanted to know if there is anything else I can check before I get back out to the range to try it out.

How much reset is in the trigger? If its not a lot you might be bouncing the sear.

[RH45]

It wouldn't be the mainspring.

Check the left leaf spring, the one that puts pressure on your sear. It sounds like you may need to bend it a little to give the sear more pressure.

[Mattog22]

I'll check the trigger reset when I get home, if that is the cause how do I fix it? I'm pretty new to shooting 1911s.

How do I know if the left leaf spring needs to be bent? Just by feel of how much it's contacting the sear?

Also the reason I suspected the mainspring was that I thought I read somewhere that it could cause sear bouncing but I guess I was mistaken. Thanks for the help guys.

Matt

[steel1212]

I'll check the trigger reset when I get home, if that is the cause how do I fix it? I'm pretty new to shooting 1911s.

How do I know if the left leaf spring needs to be bent? Just by feel of how much it's contacting the sear?

Also the reason I suspected the mainspring was that I thought I read somewhere that it could cause sear bouncing but I guess I was mistaken. Thanks for the help guys.

Matt

Mainspring, from what I understand and I'm no gunsmith, controls the speed and force of the hammer. Reset is usually the little screw in your trigger. If you rack the slide, pull the trigger and hold it to the rear, rack the slide again and see how far out the trigger comes forward before it "resets" I think you want about a 1/8th of movement. Again I'm not a gunsmith and there will probably be one along shortly

[Mattog22]

It has the STI trigger with the interchangeable trigger shapes so Ill have to see if there is an adjustment screw there.

[steel1212]

It has the STI trigger with the interchangeable trigger shapes so Ill have to see if there is an adjustment screw there.

Its a SVI but yeah it should have one.

[cheers623]

Just wanted to jump in here for a second. Yes, it could be the lighter mainspring weight. There are a lot of different variables in how the trigger components and engagement surfaces interact with each other. Of course, as RH45 and Steel1212 have pointed out, trigger reset screw and sear spring can also cause this. However, what you describe is also possible. The mainspring is one of the two springs responsible for keeping the trigger and sear faces engaged. Depending on how the trigger job was done and the sear engagement angles are cut, a lighter mainspring weight can cause the gun to double. I'll also add that if you have a mainspring weight of 17lbs you should not have that problem IF the trigger job was done right. So, I think that in fact the mainspring weight could be part of the cause BUT, there may well be bigger problems in the actual hardware in the fire control group. A competent smith could probably fix this easily though. Probably keeping all of the original parts with just some light stoning or sear spring tweaking.

Hope that helps.

cheers623

DVC

[Mattog22]

Just wanted to update. I talked to the guy that worked on the trigger and he said it was probably because I changed mainspring housings, not the spring weight itself. He said that different mainspring housing have slightly different tolerances and effect the pressure put on the sear or sear spring? He said he can adjust it when I see him next but for the meantime I guess I'll just put the S&A housing back on. Thanks for everyones help.

Matt

[CSEMARTIN]

It has had a trigger job done

If the sear and hammer hook engagement is correct, switching to a 17# mainspring wouldn't cause the gun to double.

Something is more wrong than just a spring. It's time to have someone that knows what they are doing redo the trigger.

Good luck!

[Mattog22]

It has had a trigger job done

If the sear and hammer hook engagement is correct, switching to a 17# mainspring wouldn't cause the gun to double.

I think the mainspring housing I switched to wasn't putting the same pressure on the sear or sear spring as the one that was in it when the trigger job was done.

Something is more wrong than just a spring. It's time to have someone that knows what they are doing redo the trigger.

Good luck!

[CSEMARTIN]

I think the mainspring housing I switched to wasn't putting the same pressure on the sear or sear spring as the one that was in it when the trigger job was done.

The mainspring housing doesn't put pressure on the sear.

ETA: I think you may have a problem with the sear/hammer hook engagement. Changing to a 17# mainspring has unmasked a problem.

Edited September 5, 2010 by CSEMARTIN

[Mattog22]

I think the mainspring housing I switched to wasn't putting the same pressure on the sear or sear spring as the one that was in it when the trigger job was done.

The mainspring housing doesn't put pressure on the sear.

ETA: I think you may have a problem with the sear/hammer hook engagement. Changing to a 17# mainspring has unmasked a problem.

So the changing of the housing wouldn't have an effect? Would have been easier to diagnose if I just changed the spring but I had changed the spring and the housing. I put the heavier spring back in and didn't have a problem but I still worry so I put the other housing back on as well. I don't want to get a big ol DQ at a big match.

How can I check if the sear/hammer hook engagement is correct? Or is this something only an experienced smith can do?

[Braxton1]

Actually, the MSH does put some pressure on the sear spring, indirectly.

The front surface of the MSH bears against the spine of that spring. Some variation in the amount of metal on the front of the MSH would vary the amount that it presses against the back of the spring, thus varying the amount of pressure that the spring appies to the sear.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Braxton1

[Mattog22]

Actually, the MSH does put some pressure on the sear spring, indirectly.

The front surface of the MSH bears against the spine of that spring. Some variation in the amount of metal on the front of the MSH would vary the amount that it presses against the back of the spring, thus varying the amount of pressure that the spring appies to the sear.

That's almost word for word what my trigger guy explained to me. Glad to hear that this is possible, I thought I was crazy.

[Bouttime]

I had this problem with my 1911. I added more pressure to the sear by adjusting the left leaf spring.

Still have a 2.5 lb. trigger and has not doubled on me anymore. Have put about 5 to 6 thousands rounds

through it.

Good Luck

Edited September 6, 2010 by Bouttime

[CSEMARTIN]

Matt,

If you changed sear springs, you may just need to put a little more pressure on the far left leaf (i.e., push it forward a little). The middle leaf may also need to be adjusted. Do you have a manual trigger gauge?

With correct sear to hammer engagement, I've never had a gun double with a 17# mainspring. I have had light strikes and that's why I don't run anything lighter than a 19# mainspring.

I think with a sear spring that's not adjusted correctly and a 17# mainspring, that gun could go full auto on you.

[Mattog22]

I don't have a manual trigger guage but I think you're correct about bending the left leaf spring. I've never done something like this on a 1911 trigger before so I think Ill find someone who knows what they are doing for sure.

[Jadeslade]

Get a copy of Kuhnhausen .45 Shop Manual at Brownells. Its all in there, once you can take it apart and put it back. Fun stuff.

[Braxton1]

Get a copy of Kuhnhausen .45 Shop Manual at Brownells. Its all in there, once you can take it apart and put it back. Fun stuff.

Definitely the SECOND book that I'd buy if I were new to the sport (after the purchase of our host's book!)

[Mattog22]

Thanks for the book suggestion. I'll be ordering that today. I like being able to do things myself, it's just that I didn't have knowledge on the 1911 yet.

[Mattog22]

Get a copy of Kuhnhausen .45 Shop Manual at Brownells. Its all in there, once you can take it apart and put it back. Fun stuff.

I'm guessing you are talking about this one, volume II?

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=13815/Product/JERRY_KUHNHAUSEN_THE_U_S__M1911_M1911A1_PISTOLS_A_SHOP_MANUAL

Just wanted to get it right before I ordered.

Thanks,

Matt

[pjb45]

There are two volumes. You are looking at the second volume. If I remember correctly (because I loaned mine out) the second volume is more specification oriented whereas volume one was more operationally oriented. I purchased both but ended up using volume 1 more.

I have had my Trojan double before. It had nothing to do with the MSH it was all sear spring.

If you want try this:

Take the sear spring out.

Look at the angle of the left spring in relation to the center spring.

Bend it more -towards the front, this will put more pressure.

Put it back in the gun.

Load two rounds and test..

Too heavy for you, re-bend the leaf with less pressure.

Load two rounds and two rounds only and test.

You can do some of this work yourself. I you really screw it up, buy a new spring from Brownells or call C&S and get one of his.

I was very timid to try stuff, luckily I had a friend who was patient with me and could correct my f^!&k ups. Now I am more comfortable with doing a lot of stuff on my own.

Edited September 7, 2010 by pjb45

[CSEMARTIN]

I have the Kuhnhausen manuals. If you're going to get volume 2, you should get volume 1 as well.

I found these videos much more helpful:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=25564/Product/_308_BUILDING_THE_1911_STYLE_LIMITED_CLASS_OR_CARRY_GUN_VOL__1

There is a volume 2 and volume 3 too.

[TONY BARONE]

Go to the 1911 Forum.com to find tons of info on trigger jobs and info on the 1911. Some very interesting people on that site. Geo Smith hangs out there also.