ammo comparison

[Field]

I shot an idpa classifier today and had these horrible bad hits on those 20-25 yard targets. I know that most of the time it is the shooter doing most of the missing but this was especially bad shooting that happened so afterward driving back home i bought a box of factory Lawman 124g 9mm to shoot out of my XDm9 at the local range and compare it to the load that i used for the match which was:

Rainier plated 124g RN

1.135 OAL

4.4g TiteGroup

XDm /10 shots/ factory ammo/ 15 yards

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/XDmFactoryLawman124g15ydsR.jpg

XDm /10 shots/ handloads/ 15 yards

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/XDmRainier124g15ydsR.jpg

Xdm/ 10 shots/ Handloads/ 25 yards

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/006-3.jpg

XDm/ 10 shots/ Factory/ 25 yards

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/XDmFactoryLawman124g25ydsR.jpg

Then my dad came with me and brought his XD9 Tactical. I did the same thing with his gun.

factory/ 15yds

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/XDfaclawan124g15ydsR.jpg

Handloads/ 15yds

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/XDRainer124g15ydsR.jpg

factory/ 25yds

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/007-5.jpg

handloads/ 25yds

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/fieldboy1111/008-3.jpg

What do you make of that...? Do you think the barrel on the XDm9 is getting worn out? It only has around 25,000 rounds through it though it is not shooting those Rainier bullets nearly as well as the XD9 Tac that has maybe 500 rounds through it.

thanks for any input

Edited August 29, 2010 by Field

[Hi-Power Jack]

I had a similar problem with my Browning Hi-Power

9mm - shot 5" groups at 25 yards.

I tried reloading some 147 grain MG's with 3.8

gr. WW231 powder, and the groups shot much more

accurately.

If might be that your gun will shoot better with

heavier (or lighter) bullets.

[G-ManBart]

How were you shooting the 15yd groups? I ask because those look like 4-5" groups with the factory ammo....they should be like 1-2" groups at that distance if you were being careful.

I think your XDm clearly doesn't like plated bullets....but they suck so I don't blame it. R,

[Field]

How were you shooting the 15yd groups? I ask because those look like 4-5" groups with the factory ammo....they should be like 1-2" groups at that distance if you were being careful.

i was resting the gun on a table and being pretty slow and deliberate with the trigger pulling.

oh yeah i forgot to mention you dont see it with these targets but at that match i had at least 5 bullets with some really bad key-hole action going on, i wasnt sure what the deal was with that.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Field

[AzShooter]

Get rid of the Rainer bullets. Coated bullets often loose their coat when you crimp them down enough to hold them into the case. Switch to MG's, try 124s and try 147s. watch you OAL, seat them long enough to reliably fit in the mag and feed well. After that play a little with your powder. You should be able to improve very much on your current groups.

[CocoBolo]

+1 on no plated bullets for accuracy. 4.4 TitteGroup is pretty hot, how did it crono? A rest would help with to determine accuracy. Get some Zeros they have been the most accurate out of my guns. MTG's are also very good. Try a different powder like N320.

I could have been that darn indian that made the difference, hard to tell without a solid rest.

[Sarge]

Field,

I see you are getting plenty of comments about bad bullets and using more expensive powders. I understand that sometimes buying a whole slew of new components is not a preferred option for most.

That is why it is very important for you to understand that no two guns will shoot the same load as well as the other. Even the EXACT same type of gun. That is what can make reloading fun and frustrating at the same time.

Before you order new bullets or powder you should load some test batches with reduced charges, shorter and longer oals, little more crimp, etc.. Chrono and group each batch and see what happens. After you have done some thorough testing and not gotten better results then pitch the bullets. You can order 1000 MG's without breaking the bank. That will be enough to tell you if it is you or the loads.

Coco might be right about it being the indian. But only testing will tell.

[Field]

+1 on no plated bullets for accuracy. 4.4 TitteGroup is pretty hot, how did it crono?

velocities are between 1080 and 1110fps but these bullets are also lighter than 124g most of the time more like 123g.

thats not TOO fast for plated bullets is it? i dont know

A rest would help with to determine accuracy.

I could have been that darn indian that made the difference, hard to tell without a solid rest.

yeah thats one thing that kind of bugs me a little bit is i didnt have a solid rest or vice to put the gun in and there is still that little bit of ''operator factor'' in there

Coco might be right about it being the indian. But only testing will tell.

i even asked this other person to shoot my gun and my ammo at a 25 yard target after the match and out of 10 shots 5 of them were clustered consistently high left (operator factor) but then 2 of them were spattered off in some odd spots low right and then 3 shots didnt even hit the paper at all and this was deliberate fairly slowfire shooting where you definitely wouldnt be missing.

i had another person shoot 15 rounds or so out of a glock17 and i think 10 of them were kind of all over the place and 5 didnt even hit the paper but yeah with testing ammo i really think a good rest or gunvice or something might be a good idea.

i still dont get why some of the bullets were tumbling though. i had a number of bullets go through paper that were completely sideways.

..and then i have that extractor being all loose and causing the odd FTE once in a while because the case just stays in the chamber and doesnt go anywhere..but thats another issue

Edited August 29, 2010 by Field

[njl]

How were you shooting the 15yd groups? I ask because those look like 4-5" groups with the factory ammo....they should be like 1-2" groups at that distance if you were being careful.

i was resting the gun on a table and being pretty slow and deliberate with the trigger pulling.

oh yeah i forgot to mention you dont see it with these targets but at that match i had at least 5 bullets with some really bad key-hole action going on, i wasnt sure what the deal was with that.

If they're keyholing you obviously have something bad going on and accuracy is going to suffer. It could be your barrel doesn't like these plated bullets. It could be you're damaging the plating during loading (not enough flare, too much crimp). Have you disassembled any of your reloads to check the bullets for plating damage?

I've never understood why anyone bothers with plated bullets when for about the same $ you can get FMJ (or even JHP) if you shop hard enough...especially with 9mm.

[GSWEAR]

I have a friend that has 2 XD's and an XDM and at 25 yards you can't keep them in 10" with Rainier bullets and I've heard of a lot of other people on several forums have issues with them as well and for what they cost you can add a little money and buy Zero or MG.

And as also stated you shouldn't need 4.4 titegroup to make power factor, I have a 4 1/4 and 5" M&P's and a 5" 1911 9mm and can make power factor with 3.8 titegroup and 124 or 125 JHP's.

[Field]

I have a friend that has 2 XD's and an XDM and at 25 yards you can't keep them in 10" with Rainier bullets and I've heard of a lot of other people on several forums have issues with them as well and for what they cost you can add a little money and buy Zero or MG.

And as also stated you shouldn't need 4.4 titegroup to make power factor, I have a 4 1/4 and 5" M&P's and a 5" 1911 9mm and can make power factor with 3.8 titegroup and 124 or 125 JHP's.

thanks for the info.

the thing about the PF ive shot some lighter loads but they just dont sound and feel quite right for my taste. Then also when your bullets are going a bit faster those steel targets are going to get knocked over a little bit easier. I've been at a couple matches where some dudes had trouble knocking over some steel and then when i went to do it i didnt have any trouble so there are pros and cons.