Use higher PF to take down steel?

[GForceLizard]

Shot a USPSA match at our local range. One shooter had a popper not fall with a good hit from 165gr .40 that chronos at 132PF. Steel was then checked for calibration with 9mm minor load (PF ?), popper falls. I shoot the stage using 124gr 9mm 132.9PF I need multiple shots to drop one of the poppers. My question/conclusion, maybe I should be loading to more than 132/133PF to make sure I can make the steel drop with a less than perfect hit? All hits were in the calibration circle of the poppers.

[Will_M]

If you shoot the steel in the calibration zone, with a 125+ PF load, the steel is supposed to fall.

Is it possible your chrono you used to test the power factor of your ammo is off?

From what you are telling me, assuming your and the other shooter's ammo is indeed around 132 PF, it sounds like the "calibration test load" is higher than 125 PF.

[John Z Sr]

Sounds to me like there is a chance that the popper is not being reset the same every time. I've seen this happen more than once if the popper has been abused over time, or the ground is not stable under it, causing the angle of impact to change for each shooter

[Flexmoney]

Those poppers sound off.

But, to answer your questions... Yes. Put a little change in your purse.

Even at 140pf, you are still running a soft shooting minor load. It does help with steel (even the calibrated stuff that is just slow to fall). And, you never have to think about chrono again.

[Chills1994]

.sounds like you shot Arnold yesterday.

Joe, is that you?

yesterday was kind of a messed up day. my frustration with the pre-match time involved with setting up Palm scoring plus having worked Saturday night and not having been back to sleep... I wasn't really on the ball.

I should have brought a pillow along and taken a nap while they were getting the Palm thing set up.

I think another shooter in the squad placed his hands on the popper and was like "see? it even feels heavy."

once that popper got fondled it should have been a re-shoot. my apologies go out to that particular shooter.

I am thinking I was the guy who then shot the "bulb" with my 9mm 147 grain minor PF'ed ammo. and it went down....after being fondled.

when I shot the same stage I had a problem or two with the poppers going down with the first hit.

which is where a little bit of experience and stategizing does come into play...in any one particular array, I do try to shoot the steel first then leave the array having slung some lead at the paper last.

versus falsely ASSuming that a DING! means that I have hit the steel, it is falling over and I am already ska-daddling to the next array.

if I am RO'ing I do ty to help a shooter out with the "IIIIIFFFFF??? you are finished, unload and show clear." if I see they left some steel standing or totally forgot to engage a paper target.

I think I do like forward falling poppers for a reason.

[Micah]

My Prod loads are in the 135-145pf range. The felt difference is negligible, and it enables me to get away with misaligned popper shots outside of the calibration zone.

[George Jones]

I think another shooter in the squad placed his hands on the popper and was like "see? it even feels heavy."

once that popper got fondled it should have been a re-shoot. my apologies go out to that particular shooter.

I am thinking I was the guy who then shot the "bulb" with my 9mm 147 grain minor PF'ed ammo. and it went down....after being fondled.

Pardon the interruption, but I can't help but correct these rules issues.

It depends on who did "the fondling". If it was another shooter, no reshoot... Mike!

If it was a member of the staff, then it's a mandatory reshoot.

Calibration challenge is no longer available in either of those cases. See App C1 #6c.

if I am RO'ing I do ty to help a shooter out with the "IIIIIFFFFF??? you are finished, unload and show clear." if I see they left some steel standing or totally forgot to engage a paper target.

This is considered assistance and is against the rules. See Rule 8.6

I realize that many shooters at local matches are not there to compete, just shoot and have fun. But some shooters consider it important to gauge their performance against the others. Helping one shooter skews the scores, essentially penalizing all the rest.

[GrumpyOne]

I think another shooter in the squad placed his hands on the popper and was like "see? it even feels heavy."

once that popper got fondled it should have been a re-shoot. my apologies go out to that particular shooter.

I am thinking I was the guy who then shot the "bulb" with my 9mm 147 grain minor PF'ed ammo. and it went down....after being fondled.

Pardon the interruption, but I can't help but correct these rules issues.

It depends on who did "the fondling". If it was another shooter, no reshoot... Mike!

If it was a member of the staff, then it's a mandatory reshoot.

Calibration challenge is no longer available in either of those cases. See App C1 #6c.

if I am RO'ing I do ty to help a shooter out with the "IIIIIFFFFF??? you are finished, unload and show clear." if I see they left some steel standing or totally forgot to engage a paper target.

This is considered assistance and is against the rules. See Rule 8.6

I realize that many shooters at local matches are not there to compete, just shoot and have fun. But some shooters consider it important to gauge their performance against the others. Helping one shooter skews the scores, essentially penalizing all the rest.

See rule 8.6.2.1 When approved by the Range Officer, competitors

at Level I matches may, without

penalty, receive whatever coaching or assistance

they request.

Who's to say that they didn't tell the RO right before shooting, "Hey, let me know if I left some steel up".

[G-ManBart]

Even at 140pf, you are still running a soft shooting minor load. It does help with steel (even the calibrated stuff that is just slow to fall). And, you never have to think about chrono again.

+1

No reason to go below 135PF when setting a Minor load. R,

[George Jones]

Who's to say that they didn't tell the RO right before shooting, "Hey, let me know if I left some steel up".

Sure.....

And only the two of them know whether it was approved assistance (meant for new shooters) or something outside of the rules.

[Chills1994]

thanks George for clearing that up.

[LikesToShoot]

I was the one that didn't knock down the popper. Now I'll load hotter for USPSA.

Since that's the way they run their matches, I'll adapt.

The rest of my 132PF ammo I'll use for IDPA.

Since we're talking ammo.

I have some 180gr loads that are very accurate, for me.

So, during a match if the COF has some long range shots, may I switch ammo as long as the ammo will make the PF? IMHO, hotter heavier ammo works very well for 25yrd plus shots.

I haven't found anything in the rules that state that I can't use hotter ammo.

[mpeltier]

All hits were in the calibration circle of the poppers.

Then there was a problem with the popper that should have been addressed.

By increasing your power factor, my opinion is that you are giving yourself false confidence, and sacrificing performance elsewhere on the stage.

There is no substitution for shot placement.

[AzShooter]

I shoot at a club that uses very old poppers and during matches they change calibration often. If they fall too hard some shooters will take it on their own to tighten the screws.

I shoot revolver and was told at one club, well, 125 out of a revolver is not the same as out of an auto. HUH?

To solve the problem I started loading to 135 power factor. I also shoot 158/ 160 grain bullets to help the poppers move.

Last night I had two poppers not go over when hit in the center of the calibration zone. I then aimed for the head and they went right over. Heck it's only a club match. But now I'm going to start shooting a much heavier bullet, 180 grains at 140 pf. That should do the trick.