Reload Par Time?!?

[Stradawhovious]

Sorry for all the rookie questions fellas, They will have more space between them as time goes on, and I get more matches under my name, I promise!

I see a lot of talk about reload time in the other threads for autos, but none for us wheel folks. Is there a standard that I should aspire to? Obviously I'm not going to be hitting the blazing speed of folks like Miculek any time in the near future, but as a C shooter, or a B shooter or an A shooter etc. is there a reasonable par time?

At my classifier the RO was generous enough to look up my reload times after the scoring was marked, and I was just under three seconds on the clock. It's not terrible, but it seems pretty slow to me.

Also, if a par time is established, how to you practice for it? Set the timer for par and start the reload at the beep?

Thanks!

[MrBorland]

IIRC, you're using moonclips, no?

I'll be interested in hearing the feedback. I asked a similar question, though in the context of speedloaders. The impression I get is that a consistent 2.5 second speedloader reload under match pressure is pretty damned fast. I don't practice with moonclips much, but even so, I'd guess I'm about half a second faster with them during dry fire practice.

Here's how I practice my reloads. No par timer in the vid, but I often use one. right now, I set it to 5 seconds and try to beat it. That's draw at the beep, 2 shots on target, reload, 2 shots before the 2nd beep. I'd like to flirt with 4 seconds.

[Stradawhovious]

IIRC, you're using moonclips, no?

Yep, moonclips.

2.5 with a speedloader? I've got some work to do! Looks great in the video you linked, very fluid.

[inkedshooter]

Reload to the best of your ability, you will get faster. Par time wise, as a C shooter I try and keep my reloads to under or around 2 seconds, faster if I can do my part, using my 625 with moonclips. And that's last shot fired, reload, and next shot fired. Practice at the range or dry fire at home using DUMMY rounds. I don't have a timer yet, so what I've done in the past is pull up youtube, find a video of someone doing a reload drill and just listen for the beep, it worked for me, or borrow a friends timer...

[hopalong]

WOW Inked, 2 seconds for a C shooter !!!!

It took me 3 years to break 2 seconds and I was well into B class by then.

Strada, time isn't the goal. CONSISTANCY is the goal. the more you do them the better they will get and quicker............kinda goes hand in hand.

IF I was to do my old draw shoot 2 reload shoot 2 10 times and average like I used to I would likely be around the 2 second mark right now. There are others faster, and there are others slower. Knowing in your mind how long it takes to get reloaded and back shooting between ports, shooting positions ect is where it matters.

Hopalong (a hacker that does OK sometimes)

[Stradawhovious]

Strada, time isn't the goal. CONSISTANCY is the goal. the more you do them the better they will get and quicker............kinda goes hand in hand.

I appreciate this as truth. I am consistently at just under 3 seconds now, based on videos from the one match I have video of and my practice videos..... (yes, I videotape myself practicing in slow motion.... does this make me a dork? )

I'm hoping to get faster, but I understand what you are saying, you are only as fast as your slowest movements, and the whole concept of "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" mentality.

[MrBorland]

IF I was to do my old draw shoot 2 reload shoot 2 10 times and average like I used to I would likely be around the 2 second mark right now.

Not just the reload, but the draw and 4 shots as well in 2 seconds?! And some did it faster?!

Strad - you mean you're a rookie to revolvers, no? No way you're a total noob (like moi). You vids look great

Tom

[Bubber]

The goal is to move as fast as you can to the next shooting position and be reloaded and shooting by the time you get there. I can do that now but cannot figure out that is because I am getting better or older and slower a foot .. Later rdd

[Forrest Halley]

The goal is to move as fast as you can to the next shooting position and be reloaded and shooting by the time you get there. I can do that now but cannot figure out that is because I am getting better or older and slower a foot .. Later rdd

In my super inexperienced opinion the speed of the reload is dictated by when you need to shoot again. The reason we turn and burn for the fast reload in practice is for that standing reload we cannot avoid in the match. Or in IDPA the reload we must run to stand and reload. I am reloading at the speed of "wow!" followed by "that was awesome" or "I thought you'd never finish" usually more of the former. How does one go about finding the reload par time for those of us that don't yet own timers? I have just been setting the par time I want on Matt Burkett's dryfire site and trying like the devil to make it, but it's hit or miss.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Smooth is where it's at. A 2.5 to 3 second reload won't lose the match for you but a try at a 2 second reload that turns into 5 seconds will.

Here is my video with speed loaders. The first reload was a little off but I hit the second one.

Bill

[inkedshooter]

WOW Inked, 2 seconds for a C shooter !!!!

It took me 3 years to break 2 seconds and I was well into B class by then.

Strada, time isn't the goal. CONSISTANCY is the goal. the more you do them the better they will get and quicker............kinda goes hand in hand.

IF I was to do my old draw shoot 2 reload shoot 2 10 times and average like I used to I would likely be around the 2 second mark right now. There are others faster, and there are others slower. Knowing in your mind how long it takes to get reloaded and back shooting between ports, shooting positions ect is where it matters.

Hopalong (a hacker that does OK sometimes)

Well with my 625, chamfered cylinder and a 200gn round nose bullet, and a wwhhoolllee lot of practice is the only way I can get a 2 sec reload... it doesn't always go that way though With my 686, I'm lucky to get a 3 second last shot, reload, next shot...

[Forrest Halley]

Nice video Bill. Is that an IDPA setup without concealment? I see you reload WHO, but the loaders are over in front of the holster. I didn't make this a PM because I figure the answer is relevant to the topic.

While we're on the subject does anyone that shoots multiple games see a big difference in concealment reload times? I would think it would be a split second or two longer swatting the vest back. I don't use the same ammo carriers for the different games. North mountain for speed, Calcomps to hide.

[JimmyZip]

Strada, time isn't the goal. CONSISTANCY is the goal. the more you do them the better they will get and quicker............kinda goes hand in hand.

I appreciate this as truth. I am consistently at just under 3 seconds now, based on videos from the one match I have video of and my practice videos..... (yes, I videotape myself practicing in slow motion.... does this make me a dork? )

I'm hoping to get faster, but I understand what you are saying, you are only as fast as your slowest movements, and the whole concept of "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" mentality.

That slow mo thing is a cool tool. Both videos were good dude. Hmmm... Looks like fun.

[Stradawhovious]

Strad - you mean you're a rookie to revolvers, no? No way you're a total noob (like moi). You vids look great

Tom

Yeah, I've been shooting for a few years, but just recently got bit by the revolver bug. Bought my first one this year in Feb. That, and this is the first time I've done any real competition. I've shot a couple of very informal steel matches (all static, no movement), but that's about it. I will be shooting my third USPSA match tonight. Thanks for the kind words, and thanks to everyone else for the information. Keep it coming!

Edited May 27, 2010 by Stradawhovious

[Stradawhovious]

Oops, double tap. Sorry.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Stradawhovious

[Boats]

FWIWorth

Recent match we had a stage shoot 6 reload then 6 more with pentalty if string was over 10 seconds. No concelment Couple dozen revolver shooters only 2 shot the 12 shots under 10 Sec. Jet loader SSR 9 & Change Mooncliped RSR 7 & change both guns with good hits.

Mid level club shooter actual shots fired using a timer ?. I find a 3 sec moonclip load pushes me but can be done. 4 is 100 % reliable. Jetloaders perhaps add 1 sec. Cover garment add more time. Better not to miss the re-load, screw one up and it takes a long time to clear the mess. You don't want to miss shots either particlarly the one right after the re-load, an easy one to miss.

Boats

[Matt Griffin]

Practice making a great grab on the moonclip every time, and making a great drop or insertion into the cylinder every time, and the time will take care of itself. Also, relax. Biggest problem with reloads is jamming into your belt or jamming it into the gun and knocking the clip loose; a smooth relaxed nab-and-throw will be the fastest possible reload.

That said, 2 seconds is a good goal forever. You can either get there now and work on consistency, or work on consistency and get there later, but in match conditions 2 seconds is about as good as it gets. Practice conditions you can go crazy low, I can get down into the 1.4 and 1.3 range if I'm doing dozens of reps for nothing but speed, but really that's just a trick to see what breaks down first. A real reload for me never gets below 1.8 in practice, "real" meaning an honest presentation of the gun and an honest shot.

H.

[Forrest Halley]

FWIWorth

Recent match we had a stage shoot 6 reload then 6 more with pentalty if string was over 10 seconds. No concelment Couple dozen revolver shooters only 2 shot the 12 shots under 10 Sec. Jet loader SSR 9 & Change Mooncliped RSR 7 & change both guns with good hits.

Mid level club shooter actual shots fired using a timer ?. I find a 3 sec moonclip load pushes me but can be done. 4 is 100 % reliable. Jetloaders perhaps add 1 sec. Cover garment add more time. Better not to miss the re-load, screw one up and it takes a long time to clear the mess. You don't want to miss shots either particlarly the one right after the re-load, an easy one to miss.

Boats

Haha ok so I will admit to taking seven and change seconds. Sorry I was trying to see the sights since the penalties are so high...who shot the SSR 9 second run? Lou? The fast reload is not as hard as the solid reliable reload. It took a while to get fast, but even longer to get reliable and not toss the durn thing across the room.

Practice making a great grab on the moonclip every time, and making a great drop or insertion into the cylinder every time, and the time will take care of itself. Also, relax. Biggest problem with reloads is jamming into your belt or jamming it into the gun and knocking the clip loose; a smooth relaxed nab-and-throw will be the fastest possible reload.

That said, 2 seconds is a good goal forever. You can either get there now and work on consistency, or work on consistency and get there later, but in match conditions 2 seconds is about as good as it gets. Practice conditions you can go crazy low, I can get down into the 1.4 and 1.3 range if I'm doing dozens of reps for nothing but speed, but really that's just a trick to see what breaks down first. A real reload for me never gets below 1.8 in practice, "real" meaning an honest presentation of the gun and an honest shot.

H.

This is solid advice. I am a one belt guy and it took me a while to realize I needed to move my belt buckle over to the weakhand side quite a bit. I now put it just forward of the midline. The doubled up galco gun belt holds my Calcomps in place for sneak and peek and my north mountain in place for all else. I have so much time in practice on the calcomps that I am still fast out of that rig, but I totally love the repeat grabs in the north mountain as its a touch faster and solid on the belt.

This fella makes a good point about in match conditions being around two is great. 1.3 and I'd have a pretty blue and white jersey to shoot in...

[Bill Nesbitt]

Nice video Bill. Is that an IDPA setup without concealment? I see you reload WHO, but the loaders are over in front of the holster. I didn't make this a PM because I figure the answer is relevant to the topic.

While we're on the subject does anyone that shoots multiple games see a big difference in concealment reload times? I would think it would be a split second or two longer swatting the vest back. I don't use the same ammo carriers for the different games. North mountain for speed, Calcomps to hide.

Yes, that's my IDPA setup. I keep my speed loaders on the right side because that's where my gun comes to when I drop it down to reload. Less movement. I made the video because I didn't really know how I did my reload. Now I can watch and see. A buddy noticed that I moved my strong hand thumb to over the hammer to get it out of the way. My hand snakes in under the concealment vest to grab the speed loader so the vest isn't a problem. Maybe I'll run it both ways on the timer to see if there is a difference. I don't shoot much USPSA/IPSC, but when I do, I just move my belt buckle over to the side and add more speed loaders.

Bill

[Northern Xtreme]

If anyone here is doing 2.0 second reloads or better consistantly and you are not classified at least Master, then you probably need to practice your accuracy more!

[Boats]

Take any matches results, Look at the times, then figure how many reloads in the COF. It's easy to see the effect of reload times.

Most times a poor shot after the reload cost more in results that backing off the reload just a bit and making sure of your hit first shot after it's charged. I think it's real important to go through your grip, index, raise to the sights and fire routine after a reload just like on the first shot out of the holster. Not to say you should reload slow, but difference in 3 down to 2 seconds for most shooters can be lost real quick on target. If you are a strong hand charger it's a fresh grip after. On the other hand a blown re-load is a killer time wise for sure.

Boats

[Matt Griffin]

Boats is right, for nearly everyone the correct thing to practice is sight tracking and transitions.

H.

[Carmoney]

I have never timed my reloads.

[professor]

I've got a set of 9 moon clips loaded with dummy rounds [no primers, no powder, regular weight bullets]. I load one clip in the gun, and put the other 8 on the pegs of my North Mountain moon clip holder.

This is suitable for dry fire practice in the comfort of your family room. I'm set up standing in back of a coffee table, facing a wall with lots of 'targets' to aim at. The ejected clips fall on the table so they don't roll all over the place [table protected against damage by newspapers], which also makes them easier to retrieve for the next run.

Starting with the gun out and pointed at a specific target, as if taking the last 2 shots, I'll dump the clip, reload, and get back on target for two shots, and repeat. Not concerned about time, but smooth reloads and not much hesitation on retrieving the clips from the holder.

I guess you could set up a par timer geared to xx (xx = estimated reload time x 8). You could also use a wall clock with a sweep second hand, and start when the sweep hand hits 12, then check back after the last reload is complete. You should be able to estimate total time within a second or so, without using a par timer.

You should experiment with location of the moon clip holder so that getting to them all is easy and repeatable. Try doing just a couple reloads, then see which pegs the clips you took off came from. By moving the NM on your belt so that the first peg is at that location, all the other pegs will just be a little further 'down the line' as you pull off more clips on a long course. That will save you time because you won't run out of clips and have to go back to pegs you skipped over originally.

In the same way, if you're shooting a COF with multiple strings, carry enough extra clips to 'reload' the NM pegs before each string, as your reloads will be fastest coming from that favored first peg.

Of course, keep in mind what Bubba said. It's always faster to reload while you're moving between shooting locations than to do a standing reload. So part of your practice should be doing reloads at the range with these dummy clips, concentrating on doing the reload while moving from point A to point B as fast as you can.

[Yeah, I know. Revo shooters don't practice.]

[Forrest Halley]

I've got a set of 9 moon clips loaded with dummy rounds [no primers, no powder, regular weight bullets]. I load one clip in the gun, and put the other 8 on the pegs of my North Mountain moon clip holder.

In the same way, if you're shooting a COF with multiple strings, carry enough extra clips to 'reload' the NM pegs before each string, as your reloads will be fastest coming from that favored first peg.

Of course, keep in mind what Bubba said. It's always faster to reload while you're moving between shooting locations than to do a standing reload. So part of your practice should be doing reloads at the range with these dummy clips, concentrating on doing the reload while moving from point A to point B as fast as you can.

I don't have nine dummy moonclips, but I have three and practice off each post 4 to 6 times. I am looking the reload from the belt into the gun so I don't have the problem of if I will hit the right post or not. I believe there is a big difference between snap and bang as well, so don't forget the live fire reload drills. Another poster made a great point about practicing loads on the move as well. As far as restocking the belt between strings I just shift ammo from left to right. I look at the match as a good performance if I remember seeing a lot of the sights and not remembering any reloads as I tend to only recall the sloppy ones.