IMGA target neutralization

[BigDave]

I don't think I've seen every second of Matt's vids on the net, but I do think that it is the first time I've seen him do the one shot. Interesting. If he ever gets back to doing radio shows, I think it would be one helluva topic for him, Pat Kelly, and Taran to debate or discuss.

Also, was there a condition in the stage description that made him shoot that way. (as I was typing this, then I looked and found this)

2010 MGM Ironman Stage 6 Official Course Description

Welcome to stage 6. My name is ________ and I’ll be your CRO. Assisting me is _______, and _________. This stage is sponsored by Eel-Vis Lubricants. Please remember their support of the shooting sports when you make your next purchase.

This is an 86 round COF. You will need 30 rifle, 30 pistol, and 25 shot. There is one bonus target for your rifle. I’ll read through the entire course of fire and then answer questions. The start position for this stage is pistol cold in holster, shotgun cold on table, and rifle cold and slung standing in front of breach door. On signal, breach door and engage respective targets with appropriate weapon from respective shooting area. After engaging targets place COMPLETELY EMPTY weapon on table or reholster. Firearms can not be used to breach door. PPCw/PF1-5, Whirly Gig, Spinner 1, KO plates 1-3, and Clay pigeon Swinger are shotgun targets. Plate 1, Spinner 2, T1-5, PPC1-5, and Paper Target Swinger are pistol targets. Targets T6-15, hanging clays 1-10, and bonus target are rifle targets. This is a VIRGINIA COUNT STAGE!! You get one 30 round box of SG shells, one 30 round AR mag, and two fifteen round pistol magazines.

o Box of shells will be placed on ammo table. Pistol and rifle ammo will be on your person.

o Loading extra rounds in pistol magazines is grounds for a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct. Bonus target is worth 15 seconds. Failure to breach and proceed through door is a 60 second penalty. Any shots fired outside of the specified shooting area will be a 5 second penalty for each shot fired. (Shooting the bonus target from any place other than the specified area will result in a 60 second penalty)

[XRe]

This is a VIRGINIA COUNT STAGE!! You get one 30 round box of SG shells, one 30 round AR mag, and two fifteen round pistol magazines.

Interesting... That would certainly go a long way toward explaining that strategic choice

[Jesse Tischauser]

But you also noted that strategy wouldn't even get Jake into the top 25...

I was just trying to help Jake practice more like he asked, which was a JOKE!

This is a VIRGINIA COUNT STAGE!! You get one 30 round box of SG shells, one 30 round AR mag, and two fifteen round pistol magazines.

Interesting... That would certainly go a long way toward explaining that strategic choice

There you have it. The ammo was in limited supply so one can assume he went with one shot to save ammo not time. I think Trapr said he has even gone with one A zone shot in order to save a little ammo every now and again.

So can we all go back to agreeing that the top guys don't make a habit of shooting just one A on paper and be friends again?

EDIT- Matt just responded to my question on YouTube regarding his decision to only make one shot on paper and he did shoot it that way to save ammo. Keep practicing Jack!

Edited June 29, 2010 by jtischauser

[DocMedic]

I'm cheap, One shot on target saves me bullets and money

[kellyn]

I'm cheap, One shot on target saves me bullets and money

Cheap and 3 gun are words rarely used in the same sentence!

[ShooterSteve]

At the 2008 CTI match in NC, there was one pistol only stage that you almost had to shoot 1 per target. If you doubled up, it would have been over 80 rounds for that stage! The end of the stage was a bunch of steel, plate racks etc.. so you better have ammo when you got to it. I did slow down a little and made sure I got good hits, but it was a lot different than the usual shoot two and go. Even though it was a pistol only stage at a three gun match, it was one of my favorite stages of the match. It was a no BS stage, no hide and seek type stuff. It was straight up shoot'em and run. I actually felt bad for the single stack guys, but that lasted about .4 seconds

[Jadeslade]

shooter steve-that is a cool observation. The couple of times I have done the one shot-it has always been about having enough bullets left-Texas Star at the end of a long run or something. I never feel sorry for the Single Stack guys 'cause they have great guns and big CDI factor going for them.

kelly-true dat!

[Chuck Anderson]

Is it faster to burn a .12 split on a full IPSC target at 5 yards than to guarantee an A on the same target? For me, yep, less set up, stance can be more messed up. I don't have to retrain my brain for half the stage either, okay on T1 and T2 I'm going to fire one shot each, and it has to be an A. On T3-5 I have to shoot 2 because they're at 25 yards, but I can shoot outside the A. Jake the breakdown in your reasoning comes from being used to USPSA scoring. There is always a benefit for shooting A's. In IMGA a pair a D's on opposite ends of the target score exactly the same as an A. In USPSA if you shoot 1 C you lose a point or two. If you only have one on the target you might pick up a miss penalty which could be worth a couple seconds depending on HF. IMGA an unneutralized target is worth at least 5 seconds if not more. If you take your one shot at a target and it gets picked up by a barrier, like a barrel it could be worth more than that. We can't all be perfect. And it doesn't take me an extra second to fire a second shot at a target. Close range targets, including the transition are likely to be around .38 for both shots. A called A on the same target, including the trasnistion will be .3 to .32. I'm just not saving that much to reward my risk. Also, what is your result when you shoot your one A on a target at a dead run and call it a C. Stop and go back for it? There goes every bit of your time savings.

[Jake Di Vita]

I really don't think you guys ever read my posts in entirety. I never said I would shoot one shot on every target. Nor would I probably shoot one shot on a target at a dead run. What I said is shooting 2 shots on every target arbitrarily is not the most efficient way of negotiating a stage.

[Chuck Anderson]

But what I'm saying, is that defaulting to two rounds is the most efficient way. We're conditioned to shoot two rounds at every shot from every other USPSA match we've shot. Look at the classifiers that have 3-5 rounds per target required. They give people fits. Spending the time in course analysis to determine, 1 shot, 1 shot, 2 shots, 2 shots, 1 shot (multipied by 30 or more targets at times) is a recipe for disaster. Jake, you can through all the theory you want out there. Until you go win a major three gun match people are always going to look at your logic as flawed. Right now your argument (against Kelly and Kurt, as well as the other 2 shot per target major match winners mentioned) is equivalent to you getting in a room with Rob Leatham, Todd Jarrett, Dave Sevigny, and Travis Tomasie and telling them they don't know what they're doing. It's about the most arrogant thing I've seen, and I've seen a lot.

[Jake Di Vita]

That's not the worst thing I've been called. And guess what, I don't mimic everything those guys you mentioned do either.

Don't worry Chuck, it's coming. You guys have done a sufficient job of making me want to kill myself in work to prove you all wrong.

[kurtm]

Need an AR? Need a shotgun?...Oh and I do Shotgun and Rifle lessons if you need them...... especially loading! Oh comeon now Jake I'm just messing with you, But it would be nice to see you at a big 3-gun! Maybe you could show us all a thing or two

[bigbrowndog]

I want to see the SG reload with the dropped round that gets caught and reloaded back into the SG...............................................Oh wait thats been done!!!!

BTW, Jake, apparently Blake Miguez will be joining you, I spoke with him the other day and he's hankerin' for some 3gun/multigun as well.

Trapr

[Jake Di Vita]

I actually need an AR and Shotgun lol. I'm working on getting an AR right now, shotgun will be in the future. I've always wanted to shoot some 3-gun and this just might be the jump start to get me into it heavy.

Good stuff, I like Blake.

[Sterling White]

+1 Kelly's statement - I hope all my competition shoots 1A.

I've shot it both ways in practice and agree with the majority that its faster to shoot 2. However! There is always one exception - at this years Ironman we shot a Virginia Count stage. Shooters were allowed to carry a specific # of rounds on there person (including the guns). After SG and pistol during the cof came rifle w/ 15 paper targets and 1 poker chip (20 second bonus target) at the very end. Shooters were allowed 30rds. In this case it was important to manage rounds and conserve for the bonus.

[Chuck Anderson]

That's not the worst thing I've been called. And guess what, I don't mimic everything those guys you mentioned do either.

Don't worry Chuck, it's coming. You guys have done a sufficient job of making me want to kill myself in work to prove you all wrong.

I don't mean to offend. Arrogance is not necessarilly a bad thing in my book. I'm always looking for an advantage and even when shooting with the Super Squad I'll occassionally do my own thing. Sometimes it pans out, sometimes not so much. You're right to a point. It's not always faster to shoot two. I had a couple targets at the Ironman that I singled with the pistol and rifle. But I think the times when it's advantageous are a lot less frequent than you think.

[Jake Di Vita]

No offense taken - I consider you a friend.

[KentG]

I'm cheap, One shot on target saves me bullets and money

Plus there is only one hole to paste. Except for those who dont seem to feel required to paste.

[kurtm]

I'm so cheap I sometimes don't shoot any holes on a target...especially the ones that are hidden and I missed in the walk through!

[boomfab]

That video of Matt Burkett on stage 6 of the 2010 Ironman was Virginia count.

I was at the match and everyone I saw shot one A on the pistol stuff because if you didn't, you would run out of ammo.

[GorillaTactical]

That video of Matt Burkett on stage 6 of the 2010 Ironman was Virginia count.

I was at the match and everyone I saw shot one A on the pistol stuff because if you didn't, you would run out of ammo.

haha beat me to that comment. so looks like Matt DOESN'T Disagree with all of us here haha