CHA-LEE Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 (edited) This may seem like a simple question but here it goes. Can you have a stage setup that has a target located in a fashion which allows the shooter to see both the front and back of it? I understand that the front of the target is considered the scoring surface and you can't shoot through the back of a target to achieve valid hits. But is there a rule against a shooter being able to see and possibly engage the back of a target? I have made a very rudimentary COF example below. The shooting area is within the box. T1 & T2 are also within the box. T1's scoring surface is facing directly left. T2's scoring surface is facing directly right. The shooter can physically move to both sides of the COF to see both the scoring and non scoring sides of the targets. Is this a valid target presentation??? ---------- |...T1...| |...T2...| ---------- Edited May 19, 2010 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 I wouldnt think thatd be a good setup as there seems like there could be potential shoot thru issues if engaged from the right/wrong angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 19, 2010 Author Share Posted May 19, 2010 Obviously shoot through issues would need to be eliminated. But is it legal to be able to see both the front and the back of a target from what would be considered "Within the 180" vantage points. I have seen many stages where you could visually see the back of the targets past the 180 if you looked backwards up the COF. But I have never seen a COF where you could see the back of a scoring target while you are still within the valid shooting area and not breaking the 180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 If the answer is yes, are you going to ask if you can shoot it "in the back?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Uh oh... What are you going to send me? I've only seen one stage that this was done. It was a Frank W. stage down at PPPS. It was a blast, but I'm not sure it would have passed a Level II match review. We all agreed he was on some really good drugs when he came up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Interesting question...I have only seen this presentation in one major match, and being the inquisitive type asked about shooting it in the back. The answer that I obtained was that engaging said target from the non scoring side would result in non-scoring hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Our club will often set up stages "in depth", where the shooter ends up down range of some of the first targets engaged. The stages are set up so that only the scoring side of the up range target is visible from where it would be reasonable and safe to engage it, and only the NS side elsewhere. IOW, the shooter would have to be turned away from the actual shoot targets, facing uprange with the muzzle uprange and engaging only the no shoot sides of those targets. We also block, as best we can, side visual access to the targets - the shooter is already past them before the backsides even become visible. I don't think we've had any 180 violations on this so far, and nobody, even from pretty high up on the NROI food chain, who has seen it has commented on it not being allowed, only that the shoot side of the target be safe to engage from whatever angle the shooter might see it while on the COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 It's legal. It's not recommended, because in some situations, it could confused the shooter and cause them to break the 180, but... it's definitely legal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 It's a much worse idea if the shooter can see the brown side of a no-shoot -- and think it's a shoot target -- hence we almost always double up on no-shoots, so they're white from both sides.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 I have a couple of stage idea's that would incorporate targets being visible from both sides. I just needed some confirmation that setting up targets like this would be legal. Thanks for the feedback guys!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) I see your question ... But it's hard to give a blanket answer. Some things to consider: 9.5.8 - Only hits from the front (scoring side) of a target or no-shoot will count for score or penalty. 2.1.2 and 2.1.4 - Deal with Safe Angles of Fire and Target Locations ... Look at these two rules VERY closley WRT your intended target set up and make your call ... I know you'd like a "yes or no" answer, but it's really hard to give without a really good sketch or actually seeing the target placement in the field. Edited May 20, 2010 by Schutzenmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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