Brass Cleaning Question

[drysideshooter]

With my son and I having recently starting to shoot USPSA (and having a LOT of fun) I am reloading at a volume that is much higher than what I am accustomed to. We are both shooting 9mm minor.

I have been loading on a single stage, but just ordered a progressive press to use mostly for our 9mm and .223 reloading. What I have been doing is depriming all the brass using a universal decapping die. Then I have been putting it into a chemical bath like Losso for a few minutes, rinsing it well, and letting it dry. After that it has been going in the tumbler for a few hours. Prior to sizing I check the cases for any tumbling media in them, stuck in the flash hole, etc. I have been resizing with a decapping/sizing die. This all takes a fair amount of time, but of course my brass looks really good and is very, very clean. I am hoping that with the move to a progressive press that I can speed up the process, and here are my questions and concerns:

I have heard from some that tumbling decapped brass can lead to primer pocket wear that leads to loose primers. I haven't experienced this in the past with hunting and plinking rounds, but wonder if that is a real concern? I do like that my tumbling media stays cleaner longer without as much primer residue.

If I tumble my brass with the primers still in place, is that adequate to then reload on the progressive without any further cleaning? My one concern is that if I go from the tumbler to the press is that with the primer in place it's harder to see into the case for any debris, and to inspect the flash hole. It's more of a concern with .223 and the narrow neck than it is with 9mm. I know that the decapping/sizing die will clear out the flash hole somewhat, at least of any tumbling debris.

Should I plan on using the chemical bath every few reloads, like shoot and reload the brass a few times, then decap and use the chemical bath to get it really clean before reloading? I've read a bit about build up inside the cases being bad for barrels.

I know a lot of folks here are reloading high volumes. Any thoughts or advice, or telling me your workflow would be really appreciated.

[dsmw5142]

I just sort and then tumble by caliber so they don't get all stuck inside each other with a mess of tumbler media. I decap as I load. Have done thousands like this with no issues. I'm not as much of a neat freak as some though.

Tumbler media isn't that expensive that I worry about it getting dirty. Mine is kinda crappy looking right now but still works ok. I think I'm going to change it. You can order a 40lb. bag of corncob from Grainger on the cheap, or use lizard litter from the local pet store.

[markm87]

I have heard from some that tumbling decapped brass can lead to primer pocket wear that leads to loose primers.

That's absurd! Primer pockets won't even come clean in the tumbler most of the time... let alone wear out... unless you were using some insanely abrasive media.

When I want super clean brass, I tumble for an hour, decap/resize, clean the brass in a bath of lemi shine in my ultra sonic cleaner, then tumble for another hour for final polish and drying.

[drysideshooter]

Thanks for the thoughts. I have always thought that wearing out the primer pockets seemed a little unlikely.

I think maybe I'll go to a chemical bath after depriming every few times a case is reloaded. It does seem to clean out the primer pocket a bit, and cleans the inside of the brass a bit too. Depriming cases one at a time before cleaning is just really time consuming. If I only do it every few cycles with the same brass it probably won't be too bad.

[kevin c]

"Bling" doesn't matter to the gun or the target.

My understanding is that all the brass really needs is to be free of any range grit that might scratch your dies, and a quick tumbling in even plain media will do that.

The rest is really cosmetics. I will confess to liking nice looking brass, but I also have to confess that it's more something I want than really need.

I agree that decapped primer pockets are unlikely to get peened edges or anything else that will effect seating. How tight the pocket is depends on the initial manufacturing tolerances, and how hot the loads are afterwards.

Media in the flash hole will get punched out by the decapping pin. The only problems I've had with media in the case came from clumps stuck inside if I make the mistake of not letting liquid polish mix into the dry media really well before adding the cases, or if the cases were still wet from any prior prep.

I've not heard that case "build up" damages barrels. I'd think anything that is left in the case after firing isn't much different from went down through the barrel during firing. There is even an accepted school of thought in action shooting that you don't even need to clean the barrel at all (at least when using jacketed bullets).

There's more, but I think that, briefly, a lot of the case prep described doesn't add significantly to safety, function, or accuracy. I spend less time on case prep than I used to, finding that I need the time for other things.

[drysideshooter]

"Bling" doesn't matter to the gun or the target.

My understanding is that all the brass really needs is to be free of any range grit that might scratch your dies, and a quick tumbling in even plain media will do that.

The rest is really cosmetics. I will confess to liking nice looking brass, but I also have to confess that it's more something I want than really need.

I agree that decapped primer pockets are unlikely to get peened edges or anything else that will effect seating. How tight the pocket is depends on the initial manufacturing tolerances, and how hot the loads are afterwards.

Media in the flash hole will get punched out by the decapping pin. The only problems I've had with media in the case came from clumps stuck inside if I make the mistake of not letting liquid polish mix into the dry media really well before adding the cases, or if the cases were still wet from any prior prep.

I've not heard that case "build up" damages barrels. I'd think anything that is left in the case after firing isn't much different from went down through the barrel during firing. There is even an accepted school of thought in action shooting that you don't even need to clean the barrel at all (at least when using jacketed bullets).

There's more, but I think that, briefly, a lot of the case prep described doesn't add significantly to safety, function, or accuracy. I spend less time on case prep than I used to, finding that I need the time for other things.

Thanks for a very thorough reply. Getting the number of cases I'm reloading looking cosmetically nice is taking a lot of time. I'm actually relieved to know that it's not necessary. I load some max, high presure loads for some of my hunting rifles, and I always get that brass really clean so I can inspect the brass really well. I've been being waaaaay to anal about our 9mm stuff I guess. I just put some once fired brass in the tumbler this morning and let it go for two hours. It looks really good, not as uniformally shiney as it was before, but no doubt plenty good enough to be clean and feed and function well, which is what really matters. Inside the cases is darker than with the chemical bath, but nothing flakey or really built up.

Man, I'm relieved that I can save a significant amount of time. I would rather spend the time shooting or doing something else.

Thanks for the help.

[wide45]

Tumble, and load. Primer pockets don't need to be cleaned for pistol brass.

[EEH]

Cleaning brass is like funerals--it's for the living-I know shooters who don't own a tumbler,pick it up off the groung and load,,the gun don't care,Look at my bullets how purty they are,,do they shoot any better? NO,,clean and reload just to get the dirt out,,but you have to do what's right for YOU

[GrumpyOne]

Tumble, then load. 10 minutes after you fire the shot, your brass (unless you mark it!) will be unidentifiable amongst all the other brass laying around. Cleaning brass to the point of making it look factory new is a waste of time and energy. Tumble them, shake out the media, turn all the cases upside down to make sure the media is all out, then load the bugger. Don't decap before tumbling, or you are again just wasting time. I like re-loading, but I LOVE shooting. Which do you prefer?

[kevin c]

One other point (sorry, can't leave well enough alone): brand new brass sometimes will bind on the bell/flare die. This makes for extra effort, especially in a progressive press. The die may "pop" out, jerking things around, sometimes to the point of spilling powder out of the case in the next station. Wiser heads than mine told me the problem goes away with already fired cases because that nasty black residue inside the case has just enough lubricity (never thought I'd get to use that word in a non salacious manner) to smooth things out. You get your cases literally squeaky clean using the Iosso dip, you might lose that effect. (Iosso, really great stuff for like new looking cases, but a bit pricey, and, as many have posted before, is it really adding much to the ammo?).

Good luck and have fun loading and shooting.

kc

[GrumpyOne]

One other point (sorry, can't leave well enough alone): brand new brass sometimes will bind on the bell/flare die. This makes for extra effort, especially in a progressive press. The die may "pop" out, jerking things around, sometimes to the point of spilling powder out of the case in the next station. Wiser heads than mine told me the problem goes away with already fired cases because that nasty black residue inside the case has just enough lubricity (never thought I'd get to use that word in a non salacious manner) to smooth things out. You get your cases literally squeaky clean using the Iosso dip, you might lose that effect. (Iosso, really great stuff for like new looking cases, but a bit pricey, and, as many have posted before, is it really adding much to the ammo?).

Good luck and have fun loading and shooting.

kc

Hnnk, Hnnnk! You said lubricity!

[kevin c]

Shhhhhhh!!!

I like my avatar caption just fine. I don't need to tickle the mods too much to my lasting regret.

[GrumpyOne]

Shhhhhhh!!!

I like my avatar caption just fine. I don't need to tickle the mods too much to my lasting regret.

You do know, that with over 3,000 posts, you can change it yourself?

[kevin c]

Shhhhhhh!!!

I like my avatar caption just fine. I don't need to tickle the mods too much to my lasting regret.

You do know, that with over 3,000 posts, you can change it yourself?

Yeah, but flying under the radar is generally more my style.

[GrumpyOne]

Shhhhhhh!!!

I like my avatar caption just fine. I don't need to tickle the mods too much to my lasting regret.

You do know, that with over 3,000 posts, you can change it yourself?

Yeah, but flying under the radar is generally more my style.

Ah, ninjer style.....

[BradGannaway]

I used to want my brass to be real pretty. Then, I realized that semi-clean brass shoots the same an spit shined brass.

Like me, you went from long range precision hunting rounds, to slow, close in, fast pistol rounds. They still have to be accurate, but only out to about 30-50 yards at most, and mostly below 20.

Using walnut media eliminates the issue with media in the primer pocket. I actually run an 80/20 mix of walnut and corn cob. I also put a little paint thinner and car polish (ammonia free) in the mixture and that really cuts through the gunk.

All this lets me clean less, reload more, and miss faster!!!!

BSG

[drysideshooter]

I used to want my brass to be real pretty. Then, I realized that semi-clean brass shoots the same an spit shined brass.

Like me, you went from long range precision hunting rounds, to slow, close in, fast pistol rounds. They still have to be accurate, but only out to about 30-50 yards at most, and mostly below 20.

Using walnut media eliminates the issue with media in the primer pocket. I actually run an 80/20 mix of walnut and corn cob. I also put a little paint thinner and car polish (ammonia free) in the mixture and that really cuts through the gunk.

All this lets me clean less, reload more, and miss faster!!!!

BSG

Hey Brad, I figured I must not be the only one to have gone through this. Thanks for the info on your mixture of media.

I am going to keep loading my hunting rounds on the single stage, and using the RCBS Chargemaster dispenser to throw each load one at a time. I'll probably keep the same brass cleaning regime for those cases. The only ones that I may clean a little less are .223 and .243 coyote hunting rounds. I tend to load quite a few of those, and could save some time. I'm also not as concerned about those being as critically accurate or perfect.

I just got another shipment of once fired Win 9mm yesterday. Knowing that I'm only going to tumble it and then load it makes it feel much less like I have a long ordeal of cleaning hanging over me. Like you said, I too will be able to shoot more and miss faster now.

[BSeevers]

I tumble my brass overnight and you can ask locals, its so shiny it hurts. Makes it easy to pick out among the others. We have a lot of shooters that still don't pick brass.

[dbxdm9]

I happen to like clean brass. Doesn't really take much more time than having dirty brass as the tumbler does the work, not me.

Put 300-400 cases in the tumbler, add a capful of Nushine car polish, tear up/throw in a dryer sheet to help control the dust, and let the tumbler do the work. After a few hours - new looking brass.

I then inspect each case prior to decapping/etc. I find clean brass is nicer to handle, and much easier to inspect thoroughly for cracks/etc. than dirty brass.

[Sarge]

Yep, I got a little timer to plug in to. Couple hours with walnut and dryer sheets. Then a couple hours with corn and nufinish. Looks new and does not take all that long. I think way too much is being made of how much work it is to tumble brass.

And shiny brass most definitely is better than grungy brass!

It loads easier, it chrono's better, it shoots much tighter groups, the list goes on and on.

Then again maybe not!

[markm87]

"Bling" doesn't matter to the gun or the target.

I completely agree. However, once I tried the ultrasonic cleaner and found that I could get brass 10 times cleaner in a few minutes than I could with hours of tumbling...

It's more labor intensive, but it's faster.

There was a guy on one of the gun boards who did a thorough test comparing clean primer pockets to dirty ones. He shot a long string of each in his rifle load of choice and found there to be no difference in accuracy.

[seabee23]

The only brass that I take my time with is 223. I make sure the primer pockets are completely clean. I shoot them out of an AR-15. If you have a b

high primer, you have a good chance of a slam fire since the AR has a floating firing pin.

[markm87]

The only brass that I take my time with is 223. I make sure the primer pockets are completely clean. I shoot them out of an AR-15. If you have a b

high primer, you have a good chance of a slam fire since the AR has a floating firing pin.

I've loaded 30 or 40 thousand rounds of .223 and have never cleaned a primer pocket. I load for the AR too. I can feel the resistance of a high primer on my 550 when I index it. So I give it another bump if I get a rare high primer.