benos Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I get this question quite a bit - What holsters are legal for production class - and always refer the caller/emailer to the forum. Today I did a search, read a few threads, and found vague descriptions like - you can't use it if it's a "race holster." The rules really aren't that idiotic, are they? So I thought we might compile a list, or at least be more specific. (Meaning someone might paste in the rule(s).) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 yes, they are that vague: Appendix E of 14th ed USPSA "j. Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically not allowed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Wow, stunned and amazed. Guess I'll tell this fella waiting in an email that as far as Safariland goes, it's the 560. (Not the 010.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 What about the 007? ( http://shop.optemize.com/shop/merchant.mv?...egory_Code=M007 ) I get the feeling it's not allowed, but I think it should be. It rides relatively high, doesn't have a super-adjustable hanger, and provides retention by tension rather than a locking mechanism. All that makes it look "race-y" are the big velcro-clad belt loop and the ultra-low speed cut. The only argument I can think of for excluding it would be "I know a race holster when I see one." Along the same lines, what are the rules on modifying holsters? Could I take an Uncle Mike's and lower the speed cut two inches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Also, what about mag pouches? (Safariland) Are the 771/3 legal? Are mag pouches in the same well thought out category of "race"? be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Brian, USPSA rules make reference to race holsters only, not to the type of mag pouches. This is not China, so everything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed (there, so they say, everything that is not explicitly permitted is forbidden...). --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I know this wasn't Brian's question: Instead of the 771/773, wouldn't the 177's be a better fit? So they wouldn't be spaced so far apart? The 771/773's would be nice if they used the same setup later for L-10 though.. I had someone ask me these same questions at a match Sunday. I told him to check here, best information available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I use the 771 for Production; it's legal. Though I otherwise prefer the 771 for 140mm Limited magazines, I'm wondering whether the 773 is better for short Production magazines due to its cut-down front. USPSA really is vague about Production holsters. If I strap it on and compete, I'm racing and it's a race holster. I think some good guidelines would be: - no adjustability such as cant, height, offset, etc. - covers the slide up to at least the ejection port, except for belt-slide holsters - holds grip fully above top of belt - holds gun's bore centerline and/or magazine centerline no more than 2" away from body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Ghost Dog, I think with Safariland...it is the 560 for USPSA Production. Seems like any old mag pouches are legal...just as long as they are properly positioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I use the Safariland 561 some for Production shown Here and mag holder setup Here. As you can see I agree with Flex and used "any old mag pouches" Setup shown is for my Para LDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeahyeah Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hello, I am the one who called Brian about this question, and also am the person that was asking the question at the hot shots match this weekend. Still not sure what holsters are legal and what are not, but I thank everyone for trying to answer my questions. Is there anyone that runs the matches available for comment. If so what would you allow and what holsters would you send away. I also race karts and such a rule would never be left so open ended. I and my son are new to the sport and want to buy the correct hardware. I don't mind spending the money, just want to purchase the best stuff i can that is legal. We might want to shoot limited 10 at some point also, so if anything would crossover that is a help. Did not want to start a big fuss over this but, the rules are a bit vague. So if it does't say "race holster" in the parts discription is it legal? Just Kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Crap...I thought there would be an FAQ about "What is the best holster for Production". There has to be a thread or ten on the topic (might find someting with a search). Use this as a rule of thumb...if the holster drops/slips into the holster, then it is likely legal for Production. If it clicks in, or is held in by majic or magnets, then it is likely a race holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Methinks Flex meant gun slips/drop into the holster. I think if you get a holster that covers the trigger guard and the slide up to the ejection port, you'll be in good shape. This includes most of everything that's available in regular old gun stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I used a Ky-Tac2 at the 2003 FG Nationals and got challenged on it. The RM & MD came a lookin for me, asking to look at my gear. I guess some one didn't approve and wanted me checked out. Troy and Arnie both agreed that it was not a race holster, and let me go about my business. Meanwhile people were using dropped & offset holsters (which IMO offered more of an advantage) that went unchallenged. The rules are vague but who cares? It's all about the shooting anyway. We can suggest improvements, but until the rules are changed, pick some equipment that you believe is legal, shoot, and have fun. As was stated earlier, if it's got gadgets and adjusters, it's probably not legal for USPSA Production. Let's not even mention placement of said gear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Q- Would a real simple way would be to refer the IDPA list? If you can use it in IDPA, you can use it in production. Or am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I think that if you can use it in IDPA you can use it in USPSA roduction. But, there are some that are USPSA Production legal that aren't legal in IDPA (like the dropped-offset holster mentioned). I think this is a pic of the holster that Turtle used(?): As Turtle said...he was given the thumbs up for this at the Production Nationals for USPSA. I don't think it would be legal for IDPA though? Due to the Open area below the ejection port? (Of course, IDPA has that damn list. I hate lists. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Consulting the IDPA list is a great idea. "I can't describe it to you, but I know a race holster when I see one!" I'll bet it would be easier to list prohibited race holsters than to list allowed Production holsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I'm relatively sure that any IDPA legal holster would be legal in Production division. That said, the illegal for IDPA Blade-Tech dropped and offset holster is the holster to beat --- IMHO. I run Blade-tech kydex pouches too --- largely because they're smaller than the Safariland 771/3s and also so I can leave those set up on the Open gun's race holster belt. The first two mag pouches are loose as a goose and actually have specific Glock mags matched to them that almost fly out of the pouch. The next three pouches are cranked a little tighter --- so that if I have to run or jump at least some of my mags stay with me to the end of the course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaRacer Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I use the Wilson practical/tactical. In factory form it's IDPA legal, but I modified the mount to be more inline with USPSA's more flexible mounting rules ie. max 50mm from body, grip above belt line etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Methinks it's unlikely you'll find a holster to use in both Ltd 10 and production, because you'll be using different guns. I think USPSA is just trying to avoid having to make a list like IDPA has, but hasn't figured out what to do instead, so the rule is vague. Hot tickets: Blade Tech or Comp Tac kydex holsters. Cheap tickets: Uncle Mike's kydex holsters. All make kydex mag pouches, too. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bagnato Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Why not just drop John Amidon @ USPSA an email? I am sure he can tell you if the holster you have in mind is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Flex, You are correct, that's the the holster and the "speed cut" in the front was the "problem". I agree with you about lists too, but if we do go with a list, it should be a list of prohibited and or mandatory characteristics (i.e. must hold grip of pistol no lower than top of belt, or must not not be adjustable for cant). BTW, props to the person that said "...I know a race holster when I see it", that was funny. Regards, Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Turtle, I got an email from somebody asking about where the best place to get that holster might be. They saw I posted that picture and thought I knew something about it. I don't. I just did a google search. How about giving us a scouting report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeahyeah Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Flex, I kinda answerd my own question, I was the one that emailed you the holster can be found at http://members.aol.com/KYTAC/ YeahYeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Methinks it's unlikely you'll find a holster to use in both Ltd 10 and production, because you'll be using different guns. I think David Sevigny used the same holster for Limited & Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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