Bullets Bouncing off Compensator

[CocoBolo]

I have a new Bedell Titanium comp on one of my 38 Super guns and the bullets are hitting the compensator. Tell-tale signs are very fine copper line in bottom of first wall and two clean smooth spots in end wall of comp. My smith has done 3 rounds of cutting on a lathe but I'm like ready to shoot this gun and it takes two weeks every time I take it in. To exacebrate the whole thing the C-more quit on my #1 gun.

Before the third cut, every 3rd round went into orbit, now it shots about a 2 inch group at 15 yards, which for this gun is terrible its one of those guns that can actually come close to shooting a double before I improved it.

Does anyone know if this reamer will cut the Titanium http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=797737

Or anyone got a reamer they could part with that will work?

I know I can send it to Bennie, and I just might do that if I don't find a reamer that will work.

Edited March 20, 2010 by CocoBolo

[Al Capizzo]

Which gun is having comp issues? And who installed the new comp?

Edited March 20, 2010 by Al Capizzo

[CAB33]

EGW makes a reamer and it will cut titanium just fine.

[CocoBolo]

Which gun is having comp issues? And who installed the new comp?

Al - My old remade Competitor, and it was my local smith. He likes the comp nice and tight says it works better, heck I just want to shoot the thing, acutally the darn gun shoots very nice now much better than before, but your old Briley it really rocks with the Brazos Comp. Flat and Soft, so soft and flat I'm thinking of changing the load to something a little more snappy. Unfortunately the C-more has taken a Dirt Knap. I took 4th with it at the AASA Nationals and went to the Semi Final round in the man-on-man shoot offs, borrowed ammo killed first round, I won the next round in the semi with no dot, final round I missed the stop popper and it was over.

[CocoBolo]

EGW makes a reamer and it will cut titanium just fine.

Went to EGW and could not find it. Then I searched using google and came up with this page.

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=478

I'll give them a call Monday. Thanks

[G-ManBart]

Ti comps seem to need to be a fair amount oversize to prevent this. I can't recall exactly, but I think most run the bore holes something like .385" or so. My Bedell Ti comp started getting hit on the last two, so I opened all of them up and it's never happened since (don't recall how much I opened them up, but I can measure. I used a hand reamer and a dremel tool with a round stone bit and a tapered round stone bit (aluminum oxide if I recall). R,

[RussB]

Any high-speed steel (HSS), cobalt or carbide reamer will cut titanium. Use cutting oil for a nice surface finish.

I used a .370" reamer to open up my 38 Super's comp

Edited March 20, 2010 by RussB

[eric nielsen]

Our one-and-only competent ipsc gunsmith uses a 0.375 and that solves almost everyone's problems for good. It is a complete PITA when bullets strike on the comp, and you should ALWAYS look for that, with a flashlight, any time your point-of-impact mysteriously changes.

Larger cut for Ti might be due to a different heat expansion rate. Call EGW and ask George. He is [always, permanently] one of the top-3 gunsmiths in our game and very generous with his knowledge.

[Al Capizzo]

Which gun is having comp issues? And who installed the new comp?

Al - My old remade Competitor, and it was my local smith. He likes the comp nice and tight says it works better, heck I just want to shoot the thing, acutally the darn gun shoots very nice now much better than before, but your old Briley it really rocks with the Brazos Comp. Flat and Soft, so soft and flat I'm thinking of changing the load to something a little more snappy. Unfortunately the C-more has taken a Dirt Knap. I took 4th with it at the AASA Nationals and went to the Semi Final round in the man-on-man shoot offs, borrowed ammo killed first round, I won the next round in the semi with no dot, final round I missed the stop popper and it was over.

Wow! Thats impressive! It sounds like you've got plenty of advice on the Ti comp.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Take a day trip and see Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports. It will cost you less and it will be done right. He did one for Don Hardy last year or so. It worked great after that. Titanium is a bitch to cut unless you know what you are doing. Even then it is a bitch You have to use a piloted reamer to do it right. Thanks, Eric

[Dave S]

Ti comps seem to need to be a fair amount oversize to prevent this. I can't recall exactly, but I think most run the bore holes something like .385" or so. My Bedell Ti comp started getting hit on the last two, so I opened all of them up and it's never happened since (don't recall how much I opened them up, but I can measure. I used a hand reamer and a dremel tool with a round stone bit and a tapered round stone bit (aluminum oxide if I recall). R,

I realized I had the same issue at the Florida Open. Flyers all over the place. Talked with Derek about my Millennium Custom and he said I could go to 0.385" - 0.390" on the comp with no problem. My machinist had a 0.392" reamer and we went with that. Solved the "skipping" problem and I don't notice a difference in dot tracking. Everyone that watched me shoot after the ream job said the gun still shoots flat. No flyers now.

Dave

Edited March 21, 2010 by Dave S

[G-ManBart]

Ti comps seem to need to be a fair amount oversize to prevent this. I can't recall exactly, but I think most run the bore holes something like .385" or so. My Bedell Ti comp started getting hit on the last two, so I opened all of them up and it's never happened since (don't recall how much I opened them up, but I can measure. I used a hand reamer and a dremel tool with a round stone bit and a tapered round stone bit (aluminum oxide if I recall). R,

I realized I had the same issue at the Florida Open. Flyers all over the place. Talked with Derek about my Millennium Custom and he said I could go to 0.385" - 0.390" on the comp with no problem. My machinist had a 0.392" reamer and we went with that. Solved the "skipping" problem and I don't notice a difference in dot tracking. Everyone that watched me shoot after the ream job said the gun still shoots flat. No flyers now.

Dave

Don't make me nervous...my Millennium gun has a Ti comp too

[duramaxtech]

eric nielsen has it right when he mentions the difference in expansion between titanium and steel when heated. That is the reason the holes in the wipers on titanium comps have to be opened up wider than 4140 comps. When guys first started playing with using titanium comps in the early 90s more than one got launched downrange.

[CocoBolo]

Ti comps seem to need to be a fair amount oversize to prevent this. I can't recall exactly, but I think most run the bore holes something like .385" or so. My Bedell Ti comp started getting hit on the last two, so I opened all of them up and it's never happened since (don't recall how much I opened them up, but I can measure. I used a hand reamer and a dremel tool with a round stone bit and a tapered round stone bit (aluminum oxide if I recall). R,

I realized I had the same issue at the Florida Open. Flyers all over the place. Talked with Derek about my Millennium Custom and he said I could go to 0.385" - 0.390" on the comp with no problem. My machinist had a 0.392" reamer and we went with that. Solved the "skipping" problem and I don't notice a difference in dot tracking. Everyone that watched me shoot after the ream job said the gun still shoots flat. No flyers now.

Dave

Don't make me nervous...my Millennium gun has a Ti comp too

Ok guys just dropped it back off to my smith and told him to womp it out. He says how big, we are at .364 so I told him to give it another .010 which will still be pretty tight compared to the recommendation above but it might just be enough, if not we shall do it again.

[jjanglin]

Ya all need to use an alignment reamer when enlargeing the bore of a comp, if ya

just use a straight reamer it may not get the bore out of the way unless you really

hog it out, then your run chances of poor comp performance and cracking.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[lcs]

I have a new Bedell Titanium comp on one of my 38 Super guns and the bullets are hitting the compensator. Tell-tale signs are very fine copper line in bottom of first wall and two clean smooth spots in end wall of comp. My smith has done 3 rounds of cutting on a lathe but I'm like ready to shoot this gun and it takes two weeks every time I take it in. To exacebrate the whole thing the C-more quit on my #1 gun.

My first open had a new Ti comp. Bullets started hitting the comp within a couple of hundred rounds. Thanks to research on Benos and other posters, I took the gun back to the smith and he reamed the comp and never had another problem.

[Dave S]

Ti comps seem to need to be a fair amount oversize to prevent this. I can't recall exactly, but I think most run the bore holes something like .385" or so. My Bedell Ti comp started getting hit on the last two, so I opened all of them up and it's never happened since (don't recall how much I opened them up, but I can measure. I used a hand reamer and a dremel tool with a round stone bit and a tapered round stone bit (aluminum oxide if I recall). R,

I realized I had the same issue at the Florida Open. Flyers all over the place. Talked with Derek about my Millennium Custom and he said I could go to 0.385" - 0.390" on the comp with no problem. My machinist had a 0.392" reamer and we went with that. Solved the "skipping" problem and I don't notice a difference in dot tracking. Everyone that watched me shoot after the ream job said the gun still shoots flat. No flyers now.

Dave

Don't make me nervous...my Millennium gun has a Ti comp too

Make you nervous??...haha not a chance. Mines a little older I think and was skipping off the top of the very end. All I talked to said the comps will sag over time. At any rate, the 0.392 solved MY problem......

Edited March 24, 2010 by Dave S

[Dave S]

Ti comps seem to need to be a fair amount oversize to prevent this. I can't recall exactly, but I think most run the bore holes something like .385" or so. My Bedell Ti comp started getting hit on the last two, so I opened all of them up and it's never happened since (don't recall how much I opened them up, but I can measure. I used a hand reamer and a dremel tool with a round stone bit and a tapered round stone bit (aluminum oxide if I recall). R,

I realized I had the same issue at the Florida Open. Flyers all over the place. Talked with Derek about my Millennium Custom and he said I could go to 0.385" - 0.390" on the comp with no problem. My machinist had a 0.392" reamer and we went with that. Solved the "skipping" problem and I don't notice a difference in dot tracking. Everyone that watched me shoot after the ream job said the gun still shoots flat. No flyers now.

Dave

Don't make me nervous...my Millennium gun has a Ti comp too

Ok guys just dropped it back off to my smith and told him to womp it out. He says how big, we are at .364 so I told him to give it another .010 which will still be pretty tight compared to the recommendation above but it might just be enough, if not we shall do it again.

As I said earlier, I went to 0.392 with no problems. It was at 0.375 so only enlagred by 0.017"....I would think 0.010 will do the trick. Good luck.

[CocoBolo]

Called Dan Bedell about the problem.

Here is the offical word on it.

1. The new version of the comp has a .400 opening in the first chamber wall (closest to the barrel). Apparently the one I bought was old stock and had a .364 hole in it.

2. All subsequent walls have a .364 hole that needs to be opened up to at least .368 and Dan recommends .375.

He also noted that if bullets are striking the first wall with the .400 hole that you got a big problem other than the comp.

I passed this information on to my smith and hopefull today I will get it back with the issue resolved. If not I'll be at space city shooting Limited.

[XRe]

One other thing to keep in mind... This doesn't apply to new comps... As you hammer the baffles in the comp with gas and powder particles, you'll actually squeeze those holes closed some over time. At some point, it's possible to start causing bullet strikes in the comp due to wear. A reamer fixes that issue, too.... Softer material in the comp will lead to this condition more quickly, as will tighter holes in the baffles (ie, closer to bullet diameter)...

[CocoBolo]

Ok, picked it up went to the range and ran 200 rounds thru the gun. No more bang and clang. Groups good, no shiny spots its now working. My smith took it out to .378. The first wall was in fact .400.

I did get enought shooting done to begin to like the Ti comp. I bumped my load up by .3gr and it flattend out and softened up. My friend and I were doing ammo testing for Space City. He shot the gun and turned to me and said no way that load is going to make major, right it was 1394 fps Avg with a 125 Zero 174pf.

I'm happy with it, I like the Brazos better but it works a lot better than the old comp and the change in feel and balance is awesome.

[werewolf45auto]

That's great you got it ironed out! I hate that feeling after taking the same gun back to the same guy for the same problem.

On another note I have been wondering for some time how many rounds you guys have through your Ti comps? I've been told that Ti will at some point crack and much sooner then Carbon steel.

So I guess what I really want to know is...

1. At how many rounds does the sagging start?

2. If you have had one that cracked how many rounds did it have through it?

3. If yours has not cracked how many rounds do you have through it?

[CocoBolo]

That's great you got it ironed out! I hate that feeling after taking the same gun back to the same guy for the same problem.

On another note I have been wondering for some time how many rounds you guys have through your Ti comps? I've been told that Ti will at some point crack and much sooner then Carbon steel.

So I guess what I really want to know is...

1. At how many rounds does the sagging start?

2. If you have had one that cracked how many rounds did it have through it?

3. If yours has not cracked how many rounds do you have through it?

Obviously this one has very few rounds thru it, being new. I can tell you that trouble getting it cut out just right aside the $150 for the comp is a small amount of money to obsess over when shooting open. There are two reasons for a Ti comp. 1. Weight - balance of the gun, I had an old iron comp hung out on the far end of the gun and I felt like I was fishing for red snapper with a 5# weight at the end of the fishing pole. 2. Weight - Yes again weight this time moving weight would you rather get hit with a 2# or a 10# hammer, cuts the weight off the barrel and comp assembly reducing felt recoil.

My smith's a good guy, and knows what he is doing, he wanted to keep the hole thru the comp as small as possible to make it as effective as possible. I can tell you each time the hole got bigger the dot jumped just a little higher. The Bedell is a good comp but it takes a bunch of gas to make it work.

If you don't have a weight issue you can stick with the Steel comp which weigh in at about twice as heavy 4-6 oz. I think the cracking issue is overblown like most things, one comp cracks and for the next 100 years all we hear is that they are bad, no one sings the song of the thousands that did not crack. I will find out over time. My thinking is that I will be replacing the barrel about every 2-3 years and I will replace the comp at the same time. I shoot 15-20k rounds per year.