Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Tell me again all about building a position. lol. What's a cheek weld? ( ^ not mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Cheek welds are for wimps. You shoot those from the hip, akimbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 You said "long range", those wont get it done bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 OK, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Well now that you edit your post title it changes things. Then again, long range is subjective. With a 175SMK, where I live using standard baro, the bullet goes transonic at 900 yards, if it's cold out it happens sooner. That is if you can get the velocity up to 2450 fps which is pretty probable. When the bullet leaves the supersonic realm and the sound barrier catches back up to it, it goes crazy. Imagine the sound barrier as a wave, when the bullet comes back into it this wave of sound is following the bullet and will "slap" the bullet from behind causing it to gyrate in an uncontrolled and unpredictable manner. I know down here where I live, I've seen guys come down for F-Class matches with their 168gr bullets attempting to get to 1000 yards. This is a sign of inexperience or that they traveled down from much higher elevations. They don't do it to make it more challenging. Your long range for the challenge idea is akin to shooting bullseye with a smooth bore pistol. Challenging? Yeah, I'd say so. Competitive? Not in any way, shape, or form. Wind here is 15-25 mph WSW constant today. Pretty breezy for us. I'll try and get some video of my idea of long range shooting in what I consider challenging conditions. I look fwd to days like today. It gives me a condition to shoot in that I often have to travel great distances to see. I have work to do first so I ought to get busy on that so I can leave early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 You sure do talk a lot. I'm no expert here. I'll let you define long range however you want. Those guns pictured are ringing the dinner bell at 1000y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I wouldn't put my life on it that they won't go a 1000 yards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 With a 175SMK, where I live using standard baro, the bullet goes transonic at 900 yards, if it's cold out it happens sooner. I thought all the big boys were shooting 155 Scenars nowdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 With a 175SMK, where I live using standard baro, the bullet goes transonic at 900 yards, if it's cold out it happens sooner. I thought all the big boys were shooting 155 Scenars nowdays. The 175 SMK is probably still the most popularly loaded bullet in the US. I'd think the Lake City Armament alone loads a staggering amount of them for our military and they are still a favorite among many long range shooters. I've not shot 1 in 4-5 years, but I don't know what "the big boys" are shooting. The 155 Scenar still goes transonic before 1000 yards even when driven 200 fps faster than the 175 SMK, so it's a moot point considering the MV. At 900, the 155 has 9.2 MOA of wind at 2650 fps. At 900, the 175 has 10.1 MOA of wind at 2450 fps. That's a difference of roughly 9" of wind drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Tell me again all about building a position. lol. What's a cheek weld? ( ^ not mine) By the way-what are these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 They look like Remington XP100 to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 (Mike... yeah, it's raining. I am inside. Don't wanna "play house". And, I hooked a big one. ) Those are Remington XP's...with the mid-grip. They make them with a rear grip too. Also consider the Savage Striker. On the books, those guns...with 15-16in barrels...are staying super-sonic to 1200+ yards. In the air, those ballistic calculations have proven themselves to be dead on out to 900y (900y being the local range limitation). I know the elevation at the tower at the local airport is 740ft. Can't say what it is at the range. Pretty close though. (that's not the 177ft in southern GA, but near as doesn't matter for the purposes of this conversation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 (Mike... yeah, it's raining. I am inside. Don't wanna "play house". And, I hooked a big one. ) Those are Remington XP's...with the mid-grip. They make them with a rear grip too. Also consider the Savage Striker. On the books, those guns...with 15-16in barrels...are staying super-sonic to 1200+ yards. In the air, those ballistic calculations have proven themselves to be dead on out to 900y (900y being the local range limitation). I know the elevation at the tower at the local airport is 740ft. Can't say what it is at the range. Pretty close though. (that's not the 177ft in southern GA, but near as doesn't matter for the purposes of this conversation) Flex, you realize a rifle with a 28" bbl in 308 shooting a 155 at 3000 fps is only supersonic to 1250 yards at 59* right? What caliber are you using as a reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 We have been doing this for about a year now. Those guns Flex posted are a friend of mine ,one is in 260 Remington ,the other is in 7-08 , I have a Savage Striker in 260 rem that I put together myself and a XP-100 in 260 Rem custom the a gunsmith friend of mine put together for me.I have done the math and the leg work and they will do the job to 1200 and then some .If you do the work the 260 in 14'' / 15'' bbl's will get 2500/2600fps and shoot well .I use Lapua 139's,and have used Sierra 142's and they work well . My Striker will do .5'' at 300 yd's and so will the XP . I'm going to group these new guns at 600yd and 800yds this week . I have no problem's hitting 15'' circle's that we shoot in our match's from 200 to 900 yds . In the last match last year in Oct, I went 15 out of 18 the misses were one at 500 and two at 900 ,windage problem's . I'm having a ball learning new things at 60 yrs old ! Maybe Kyle will post my two rear grip gun's when he has a chance . COME ON IN AND GET YOUR FEET WET,its fun , it make's you giggle like a school girl when you hit something and 3 seconds or so later your hear the CLANG or clang as it my be !!!! Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 Subjective is...how high I gotta wear my boots. Competitive? Not in any way, shape, or form. These guys are shooting with pistols. Giddyup. Accuracy, velocity, and ballistics aren't holding them back in the 1,000y steel match. Dale tells me the biggest hurdle is likely the glass of the pistol scopes. He is getting ready to try out a rifle scope that he believes won't tattoo him, but the gun that is on needs some tweaking first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I will invite you to Ohio anytime to my range at home or to our monthly matches every 4th Sun. at Rayner's and we will shoot plate's in any weather condition's that happen to occur,I don't shoot benchrest for groups everyday but I do shoot steel and I will let you have a crack at my crow targets , others can relate, that have had the pleasure .Chris, that made my friends mounts is in Alabama and we might just come for a visit ? Thanks, Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I recognized the "Variable Gentry" mount in the first pics. Yes I know Chris Self, he shoots at Hard Rock also. We'd be glad to have you come down and shoot with us some time. Where is your Rayner range located? The 2nd weekend in May I'll be at the Sniper's Paradise Rendezvous which is going to be held near Milton, Tennessee. It's right at 432 miles from me and about 529 miles from you. The targets will be steel starting at 300 yards and going out to 1400 yards in 50 yard increments. Should be a lot of fun and a good learning experience as there will be instruction on wind reading and doping for folks that are new to long range shooting. If you're interested in attending shoot me a PM and I'll give you the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Rayner's Range is close to Zanesville,Oh , they hold USPSA match's on the 3rd Sun and you can find them on the USPSA site . Chris did invite us down also and we have been thinking about it,but we don't travel as well as we once did . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Well if you decide to come down let me know. Chris can sponsor you to the match and I'll put you up in the cabin. Friday is usually a practice day and in May there will be 2 matches, 1st Saturday and last Saturday. Next matches are end of June, July, and August. August is the last match of the year as the property is also leased out for hunting. Here's a pic from my home range, the target is a USPSA target with the D zone cut off made out of AR500 and the steel behind it is a sheet of AR500. It stretches out to 2200 yards, which allows you to test the limits of most common rifle platforms... and all shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askomiko Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 2200 yard home range?! I want one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 So, are we back to... If you shoot long range for the challenge, then why not... ? Admittedly, I was dangling the bait out there to make for an interesting discussion. I talk with Dale about these setups pretty often. I think it's cool that they are out there on the line with these. Dale isn't an internet braggart. He wouldn't have posted here without me getting the ball rolling. When he says he went 15 for 18 at the local match, realize that none of the rifle shooters went 18 for 18 all of last year. (I think they just had the first clean 18 at the snow match a few weeks back.) I guess I am saying that the challenge isn't so much in the ballistics as it is getting behind the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Nope, not at all. I just prefer my long range rigs have a butt stock on them. Pistols are for fighting my way back to my rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 You still started a pistol topic in a "precision rifle" forum. So the tool matters more than the distance and level of accuracy? (I don't think you're going to get a bunch of threads on folks attempting 1,000 yard shots with Glocks and 1911s....) I'd argue that these pistols have more in common with a precision rifle, than they do with most modern handguns.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 You still started a pistol topic in a "precision rifle" forum. So the tool matters more than the distance and level of accuracy? (I don't think you're going to get a bunch of threads on folks attempting 1,000 yard shots with Glocks and 1911s....) I'd argue that these pistols have more in common with a precision rifle, than they do with most modern handguns.... And you'd get no argument out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 I just prefer my long range rigs have a butt stock on them. What didn't you like about shooting the long range pistol setups that you've tried to make work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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