M&P Trigger Service - What to do?

[ThomasJ2772]

I've been doing research into the trigger service provided by some of the smiths out there. I tried to get an appointment with Dan Burwell, however it's been nearly 4 weeks since my initial message I sent to him (with additional follow-up messages sent since, including a PM on this site) and I have yet to get any response. I'm sure that the great work he does, and its high quality is what makes it so hard to get an appointment.

Today I contacted the S&W Performance Center to ask about their work. I spoke to a person who had never fired an M&P, post their work. Not only could he not tell what the benefits were to their work, but he repeatedly told me that it was impossible to change the characteristics of the reset. He said "the reset and its feel and position are what they are from the factory and can never be changed." He said that if any other gunsmith claimed to be able to affect the reset than he must be installing Chinese parts or something. He couldn't tell me if their work shortens the over-travel, makes the break crisp, smoothes out the trigger pull... The only thing he knew was the 4 bullet points that are posted on the S&W Performance Center web-site (Polish Ramp, Tuned Action, Install Performance Center Sear, Test Fire for Function). In fact, after not being able to answer a single question of mine he said, "We even test fire the gun for testing afterwards;" as if this was going to sell me.

At this point the question I'd like to get answered by the forum is, what direction should I be looking to go with my concealed carry, .40 compact M&P? Is it worth waiting for a potential response from Dan Burwell and/or waiting the 16 weeks for Bowie Tactical, or should I just send it to the S&W Performance Center? (Surely the smiths at S&W are more intelligent than the "technical support" phone people?)

Edited March 2, 2010 by ThomasJ2772

[Shibby]

I vote wait for Dan or try to contact Accurate Iron.

It took me a while to get up with Dan but, when I sent him my gun the turnaround time was super fast. And the results were well worth the wait. One of my shooting buddies sent his into the Performance Center for work and my trigger blew his away.

[Pepper]

Do it yourself. Go to the M&P Forum or M4Carbine.net and read the threads on the Apex Tactical sear kits. It is a trigger job in a box for the M&Ps. Randy Lee, the owner of Apex, even has installation videos on-line.

[Bongo Boy]

At this point the question I'd like to get answered by the forum is, what direction should I be looking to go with my concealed carry, .40 compact M&P? Is it worth waiting for a potential response from Dan Burwell and/or waiting the 16 weeks for Bowie Tactical, or should I just send it to the S&W Performance Center?

I've not attempted to get work done with any M&P smith, but your general experience is about the same as mine with other highly-regarded gunsmiths.

Here's just my opinion, nothing more. A carry gun needs to be reliable above all else, and the M&P trigger seems quite simple. There are a couple of things you can do yourself (unless that's simply out of the question for you), with virtually no risk of reducing reliability, safety or general function. These would include polishing a few areas of the trigger bar--about 45 min work including disassembly and reassembly, and not special tools.

Apex Tactical offers a sear that promises to improve (reduce) trigger pull, and that's a drop-in part you can put in when the the smoothing/polishing work is done. Based only on the Apex video and my own modifications to my own gun, I'm thinking this would give you a very nice set up more than adequate for carry, and almost certainly a nicer, smoother operating trigger than stock--all for something like $40.

I know this option just won't appeal to many folks and may not appeal to you at all. But, I like knowing how to get the gun apart and knowing a bit about how it works in some detail. Replacing, rather than modifying, the sear largely removes the worry one might have about dorking up the delicate balance of nature at work there, and yet, at least according to Apex, you get a 4 1/2 lb pull with a drop-in part.

But, if this isn't an option, then maybe someone here will provide Burwell's phone number so you can call him. I wasn't able to find it at his web site, and after opening up the gun, it just didn't seem worth it to send it off to anyone, although his prices are certainly low enough.

[ThomasJ2772]

Do it yourself. Go to the M&P Forum or M4Carbine.net and read the threads on the Apex Tactical sear kits. It is a trigger job in a box for the M&Ps. Randy Lee, the owner of Apex, even has installation videos on-line.

I would like nothing more than to do it myself; it sounds like fun. The problem is, I don't care for the leagal ramifications. This is my concealed carry gun and if I were to ever have to defend myself, I don't want to end up in court facing a defense lawyer claiming that I was negligent because I didn't use a qualified gun smith. I hope to never use my gun for this but I think it's reasonable to consider this type of scenario.

[Bongo Boy]

...and of course to say the characteristics of the reset 'can never be changed' is absurd. It's only a matter of how much time and money one wants to spend. Hell, you could have someone attach a leaf style spring to the sear block to ride against the outside of the trigger bar as one obvious (but ridiculously expensive) option. I just hate it when folks say 'it can't be done'. They shoot their credibility down the drain, because it can ALWAYS be done.

[ThomasJ2772]

...and of course to say the characteristics of the reset 'can never be changed' is absurd. It's only a matter of how much time and money one wants to spend. Hell, you could have someone attach a leaf style spring to the sear block to ride against the outside of the trigger bar as one obvious (but ridiculously expensive) option. I just hate it when folks say 'it can't be done'. They shoot their credibility down the drain, because it can ALWAYS be done.

That was kind of my point... The S&W dude sure didn't make me want to send the gun there.

Edited March 2, 2010 by ThomasJ2772

[Bill40718]

ThomasJ2772,

Just my .02 worth!!

Get ahold of Mike Cyrwus at www.accurateiron.com, he does a fantastic trigger, is not expensive and usually less than 2 weeks.

I have a gun done by Mike and have never had anything but very positive comments.

Bill

[Flexmoney]

You might realize the nature of things is that many gunsmiths are one man shops. Often, it is on top of doing another full-time job as well. Heck, some of them would even like to practice and compete too.

It is clear that the person you spoke with at the S&W shop (according to the conversation that you related) is not as versed in what is possible with the M&P trigger as others are.

[Bongo Boy]

While an impressive web presence may imply Research, Marketing, Sales and Customer Service departments (with operators standing by), what Flex says is certainly true. You need extra patience, I guess, with these niche shops, even if they do have a half-dozen folks. But also, I find some people just "don't do" email, at all, while others explicitly state they prefer it. It's kind of a little game, I guess. I'm confident patience will pay off, and you'll have a high level of confidence in the weapon you end up with--which is nice.

In the mean time while you're waiting, take a new sheet of 600 Waterproof sandpaper (the black stuff), fold and rip off a 3" wide strip and roll it up around a pencil. Remove the pencil and snug up your roll of sandpaper, then carefully sand every square mm of the front of the trigger, taking care not to change the contour (which is almost impossible with 600 grit wetsand). Continue this process until the entire surface is satin smooth and there are no remaining manufacturing marks. Wipe off with a damp paper towel.

There! You have your first trigger modification guaranteed to add hours of enhanced enjoyment and shooting satisfaction.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Bongo Boy

[kevinj308]

I just wanted to throw in my .02 cents. As the previous poster has said these guys are usually one man shows. They tend to be, in my experience, enthusiasts in their sport who happen to be talented technically. Nobody is gonna care more than an enthusiast and their talent makes them popular. I've certainly been guilty of thinking that I could order up some custom work like clicking on an item in my online shopping cart and having it sent next day air for immediate gratification. It just ain't gonna work that way. Their business model is more of a serious hobbyist, again in my experience.

My response to that was to do my own work. I'm fairly technical and I enjoy the learning process. I'm not sure I agree with your concern about liability. A lightened trigger is still light no matter who did it. A famous gunsmith isn't gonna help you out there, but I'm not a lawyer either.

I say all of that to say that I've experienced your frustration and in my opinion if you don't want to do it yourself then I'd wait for Burwell. Or someone like him. If his reputation in competitive circles is good, you can't go wrong.

Sorry if that was long winded but it took me a while to understand the way the custom gunsmith works. I still don't have any patience for not getting the product back after it's been paid for and promised. But I don't think that's an issue with anyone that's been mentioned here.

Good luck and take care

Kevin

[fred5876r]

+1 for Mike at Accurate-Iron. Good communication and quick turnaround.

[paul gilman]

I have a running experiment going with my M&P 40, I polished the trigger bar and the contact surfaces on striker and sear with 600 grit wet dry paper.This did not change the reset but made the trigger much crisper and very shoot able, while this will not replace a full trigger job it would be a excellent way to do the trigger for a carry gun. Also this gives you insight on how the trigger and striker work.

This is what I would recommend at this time, then after you shoot the gun for a period of time you can decide on the next step in your modification to make the pistol fit you better.

[kend]

Big companies like S&W have lawyers to make happy but that doesn't excuse the ignorance that evidently you had to deal with, I've seen M&P triggers as light as 1.5 pounds and almost like a 1911. Not really safe without the thumb safety but an awesome trigger. All good suggestions above, Mike at AI does superb work as does Dan. Another option is Bobby at Freedom Gunworks, he's in the Dealers Forum here. If you don't want to diy and you have a local gunsmith that is capable of taking the gun apart and putting it back together but doesn't want to try to work the trigger over, the Apex drop in sear is worth looking at, it's $29.95 (we have them in stock now) and will reduce the trigger pull a pound to a pound and a half, they're really smooth as well.

[ThomasJ2772]

Update:

I corresponded with Dan today... It sounds like we had some technical difficulties with regard to my messages reaching him. I'll be sending the gun off to him. Thanks to all for the really great suggestions; I'd actually like to buy a service size M&P (not for concealed carry) and try some of the DIY ideas. Something tells me though that after owning one of Dan's triggers I'll be hard pressed not to send future guns to him as well.

[Bongo Boy]

I corresponded with Dan today... It sounds like we had some technical difficulties with regard to my messages reaching him. I'll be sending the gun off to him. Thanks to all for the really great suggestions; I'd actually like to buy a service size M&P (not for concealed carry) and try some of the DIY ideas. Something tells me though that after owning one of Dan's triggers I'll be hard pressed not to send future guns to him as well.

It's good that things worked out and I'm confident the ending will be a happy one. I think so long as you both converge on what distinguishes 'carry' from other applications, life will be good.

[kgunz11]

I can confirm, many of us ARE 1 man shops, some even have full time jobs. I've had the luxury of having a friend in the shop the last couple weeks and it's been a HUGE help, but also at a pretty good expense too. His company is worth the price alone. He's now polishing and etching the mags after I do the tuning and it's helping tremendously. Dan and Mike both do excellent work, you can't go wrong with either one of them.

[fastarget]

I vote wait for Dan or try to contact Accurate Iron.

It took me a while to get up with Dan but, when I sent him my gun the turnaround time was super fast. And the results were well worth the wait. One of my shooting buddies sent his into the Performance Center for work and my trigger blew his away.

Dan contacted us today and both of our pros are finished. As the rest and flex have said, a one man operation and he has another job. He will get to you he answers them as he gets them , try him here with a PM, his work is worth the wait, and I doubt anyone has more experience with the m&p than he does. He shoots them in competition as well, so he knows what is needed first hand.......

[Bongo Boy]

It's like a religion. Hilarious to observe from a safe distance. Decidely dangerous to be a part of.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Bongo Boy

[fastarget]

Think of it as painting instead, there are many artists but only a Picasso or two

[E5MC]

Disregard.

Edited March 5, 2010 by E5MC

[mike cyrwus]

edited my post.

Edited March 5, 2010 by mike cyrwus

[G-ManBart]

In the mean time while you're waiting, take a new sheet of 600 Waterproof sandpaper (the black stuff), fold and rip off a 3" wide strip and roll it up around a pencil. Remove the pencil and snug up your roll of sandpaper, then carefully sand every square mm of the front of the trigger, taking care not to change the contour (which is almost impossible with 600 grit wetsand). Continue this process until the entire surface is satin smooth and there are no remaining manufacturing marks. Wipe off with a damp paper towel.

There! You have your first trigger modification guaranteed to add hours of enhanced enjoyment and shooting satisfaction.

...and wind up with a gun that's technically not legal if you want to use it for Production division (not that OP was asking about that).

[fastarget]

update.

Received both of our pros from Dan today, and the triggers are exceptional. They fell and break 1911 like.

Nice job Dan and thanks.

[GISMap]

I'm building my M&P 40 now, and just ordered a bunch of parts. I'd really like to go with Dan's work, but $140 shipping is way too much for me to swallow. His price for the work is very reasonable, and if he was local, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm going to install the Apex kit and see how that changes things. My gun isn't bad now, in fact its pretty darn good compared to many of the horror stories I've read here.