mactiger Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) DQ under 5.2.1. NROI has already ruled on this. See NROI uling. Exactly so. NROI Rulings Title: Removing holster and/or holster from person while handgun still in the holster. Created: 12/02/08 Updated: 12/09/08 Effective: 12/09/08 Rule number: 5.2.1 Applies to: Pistol Ruling authority: John Amidon Status: Released Question After I have been unloaded and shown clear on the line by an RO, can I go back to my bag and remove my holster and/or blet with the holster attached while the handgun is still in the holster Ruling A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes his/her holster or his/her equipment belt with his/her handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. Safety areas are provided for doing this while not under the supervision of a RO. Troy Edited March 3, 2010 by mactiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBfarms Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Are you still considered "at the USPSA match" while inside the porta potty? If so who is going to RO those sh!++y stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 LOL! I remember the story of the dropped gun in the porta-potty as recounted by the instructor for my RO class. I'm having a great chuckle again remembering that. :-) I'm dreading being the RO who has to fish the gun out and make sure it's clear. :-( Thanks guys for the clarification of the rules as well as for the laughs! As always, there is a great store of knowledge in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I just read through this, and got quite a chuckle. What about removing the rig in the safety area without touching the magazines? At our range, I would feel safe enough to ask a friend to ogle it while I run quickly to take care of business. This invariable becomes an issue at stage 2. I just put my mags in their pocket of my range bag,take my bag to the safety area, drop the gun in it, put my outer belt through the handles, and leave them on the ground near the safety area. I was just asking about the magazines for clarification's sake. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Thats why they have a lock on the Porta-jon. I do suggest removing the belt though. There was one competitor who "dropped" their gun in the porta-jon. I believe it was as single stack gun also. I can remember going out to dinner after a match with them and hearing the story. It might have been after the Honda Spree story Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Integrity is shown when no one is looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Never been caught because I never allowed ANYONE in the pisser with me. If the R.O. comes into it to check me, a belt off is the last thing he is going to be thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 a guy dropped his gun in one of those PORTALETS a couple of years ago at the FL Open he got a brand new bluing job on his pistol....(probably brown as well) i would hate to be the RO to pick that up from one of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 If I ever drop mine in the can, I don't care if the gun is 2000 grand I'll sell it for next to nothing. Someone else can have the stigma of "hey man that guy stinks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcic Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Yep, and maybe get DQ'd like the guy at DTC a year or two ago It was last year. The guy left the gun in the john when he was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Do what I do.... - Bend over allowing gun to fall on floor.... - Take care of business..... - Call R.O. over to pick up gun off bathroom floor NO D.Q.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 most everyone carries their range bag around right? why not take the little padded case that comes with most bags to the safe area, unholster and put in that little padded bag. carry that to do your business, come back to the safe area and re-holster. probelmo....solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I had one of those moments once at a match, I was working hard pasting targets and setting steel just waiting my turn to shoot, when suddenly without warning, I had to go and go right now!! The outhouse at this range was not close to the shooting bays, so I waddled all the way to the outhouse, writhing in pain, I opened the door and to my horror! NO TOILET PAPER!! To make a long story short the last thing on my mind was whether or not I was going to get DQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoterbeast Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Let's say I have go to use the restroom. Can I be DQ'd if I remove my gun belt with the gun still in the holster while not in a safety area? Or if I have a paddle holster, can I be DQ'd if I remove the paddle holster and gun as a unit while not at a safety area? The common answer I hear is "yes", and when I ask by which rule the response is that it is 10.5.1. As I read 10.5.1: 10.5.1 Handling a firearm at any time except when in a designated safety area or when under the supervision of, and in response to a direct command issued by, a Range Officer. In the Corrections to USPSA Handgun Competition Rules of January 2008 it says: Handling (as in “handling a firearm”) The act of manipulating, holding or gripping a firearm while the trigger is functionally accessible. Since a legal holster prevents access to the trigger and I'm only dealing with my entire gun belt or paddle holster and not manipulating the gun, I don't see how 10.5.1 applies. Even if people argue that at some point I may have to touch the gun while removing the belt or holster, the trigger is still not accessible. Another response I can think of is "yes", but rule cited is 10.5 in general for unsafe gun handling, instead of the more specific 10.5.1. This is since 10.5 is not an exclusive list, but simply a list of examples. In this case, I refer back to the definition of "handling", and again it looks like I'm not "handling" the firearm by the definition of "handling". I'm straining hard here to make the answer be "yes", but it looks more and more like the answer is "no". Can anybody with a lot more RO training/experience guide me into the correct way of thinking here? Anyway, to avoid the issue entirely, I always go to the safety area first to case my gun if ever I need to take my belt off. Guys, its a simple case of priorities. If nature dictates speed to the facility and bagging would be a problem you can either fill your pants or do what you have to do and risk the DQ. Myself, I would risk the DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I'm glad I read this. I've been a naughty monkey while seated at the tailgate of my SUV, while putting my outer belt w/ holstered gun on and taking it off there at the end of match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Go in the pisser, take off your belt, piss, put it back on. Being doing this for 20 yrs. Yep, and maybe get DQ'd like the guy at DTC a year or two ago It was last year. The guy left the gun in the john when he was done. So, why was he DQ'd? Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanM Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I'll admit that I'm the guy that did this and that the OP refers too. This was one of those painful learning lessons and I hope others learn from it. It's one of the odder ways I've ever heard of someone getting DQ'd. My brainfart, 5.2.1 is pretty clear. I have no problem with it at all. I simply misunderstood the rule. I've seen this done before and I have done it before and no one ever said anything about it. After I was DQ'd another shooter mentioned to me that he had done this before as well thinking that so long as the gun was locked in a holster, you were good to er...go For the record, not that it matters, it was locked in a Limcat holster. So, let this all be a lesson to everyone and spread the word. I think this would make a great Front Sight rules topic just to spread the word that this is a no-no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Are you still considered "at the USPSA match" while inside the porta potty? If so who is going to RO those sh!++y stages. Think ROing it would be bad, try to have to reset that stage. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 It was last year. The guy left the gun in the john when he was done. So, why was he DQ'd? Troy He removed the gun in the john, it wasn't a dropped gun. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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