Justsomeguy

I am still experimenting with some Extreme/RMR bullets I bought last year at the close of the good weather "season" as it were. I did manage to get out a shoot some 147grn Round Nose out of a Witness converted to 9X23 which grouped very well indeed at about 1200fps. I have some 124grn Flat Points I am about to load up in 9X23 and expect to shoot them at around 1400fps or so over 8grns of Silhouette, so I'll report back when I get them chrono-ed and tested for accuracy, but I expect they will do just fine. I have shot some of their 165grn HPs out of several of my XD types at velocities that averaged up to 1182fps out of my 5.25 XDm over some 3n38 and they shot well and accurately with no key holing issues or anything coming apart. I am thinking that if the barrels are rifled for 1/10 vs 1/16 as some barrels are, that the centrifugal forces would be greater and any damage to the bullets in the reloading operation would be more troublesome, but that's only a theory of mine and would require more testing than I have the capability to preform.

Both Unique and TiteGroup are very smoky with lead in my experience. However, I did notice a good bit of difference between the bullet types used. I had hoped that the coated ones would be even less smoky, but with those powders you only get some improvement I guess. I recently got some SNS coated to try in 9mm and if they do well with some of the powders I have I will also try their 180grn 40cal stuff. Personally I have, but do not use either TiteGroup or Unique much anymore, preferring Silhouette and some of the other more medium burners that run cooler and with less smoke even with bare lead bullets. Longshot is way less smoky than either of the powders you tested above, and in fact is pretty good with lead overall as is Silhouette. WSF is also pretty good with lead bullets, but does not have as great a load range as Silhouette or Longshot. I am also in the Portland OR area. Do you ever shoot out at Tri County?

Not that 231 would be my first choice for major, but with your long OAL pressure may still be within due SAAMI bounds even though you are over the recommended charge weight. Since it feeds nicely at that length, and you seem to be determined to use 231, I would keep the OAL and try increasing the powder charge a bit until you are satisfied with the results. There are, of course, a lot of other powders that would easily make the PF you are looking for without any drama as far as pressure is concerned. WSF, Silhouette, AutoComp, HS6, AA7, Longshot... the list goes on.

I have used AA7 mostly for 147's in 9X23, but I have one load for 9X19 using Montana Gold 124s. It's still a "minor" load, but fairly brisk. MG JHP 124grn, 7.8grns AA7, Tula SPP, OAL 1.072... this averaged 1222fps for 20 shots giving a power factor of 151 or so and had an SD of 8.9. It was also pretty accurate, or about 2" or so at 15yrds (or about as good as I can still see the target with the fat sights on that gun!). This was out of a 4.75" Longslide Witness. I plan to do more testing with AA7 as well as 3n38 in 9X19 in the coming weeks. Like most of the slower medium burners, AA7 will like to be loaded more like 3/4 of the way up its load range on up to its maximum with any bullet weight to give best results.

Like Silhouette, 3n37 is great for major in .40, but not so much for minor. Below a certain pressure level it just won't burn right as is true of a lot of mid-range and slower powders. So if you want something for minor, then TiteGroup or even e3 would be much better. I don't like TiteGroup because of the heat it generates. e3 does not have that problem and I would think it will get more and more popular especially for 9mm and minor .40.

I've loaded many thousands of rounds of .40 using Dillon dies and they do just fine. I do have a Redding "push through" die for those occasional bulged cases but once they get done they are good to go in all my guns (no Glocks). I think you will like the Dillon taper crimp die. It is easy to adjust and works as per specification.

As always, OAL is gun and bullet specific. Jack is giving you good advice in that only YOU can determine what the OAL will be for that bullet in YOUR gun. I have a couple of TZ types that also require what I consider to be shorter than "normal" OALs because of their short throats. My XD types can take a bit longer OAL, but certainly not as long as most of STI/1911 types do. So... it's either load as required for the barrel you have or get a throating reamer. Extending the "free bore" of your pistol is not unheard of, but if overdone can sometimes affect accuracy.

In one of my older books, 5.3grns of Unique using an 124grn lead bullet is considered a "factory duplication load". I have shot this using Berry's CPRN bullets at 1.15 OAL which yielded 1163fps for 20 shots in a 5" 1911 pistol. If you shorten the OAL to accommodate a lead or any other flat nosed bullet you should reduce this load a tenth grain or two. I have used as much as 5.9grns of Unique with the same bullet as short as 1.123 OAL which delivered an impressive 1250fps average for 20 shots in a 4.5" barreled Witness as well. That 5.9grn load would certainly be "maximum" by anyone's standards and should be approached with caution by working up in YOUR gun. Witness barrels are very much supportive of the entire case area and others are not always so supportive.

Hi Chevy... first of all they are "brass" of course, just nickel plated. Some reloaders report getting a few less reloads out of nickel plated brass because of it sometimes being more brittle and so getting case mouth splitting sooner than with unplated brass, but it seems to depend on the manufacturer and the method used to plate them more than the plating itself. That aside, 2500 once fired cases is a nice find and even if you only get 8-10 loadings out of them instead of 10-12 they were free so you still got a good deal! They will load the same as regular brass but be a little slicker in the process.

Truly, OAL is GUN and BULLET specific. There is no way, unless someone has used the exact same bullet as you, to forecast an approximation of the OAL you will be using. I have several Witness pistols though, and I can tell you that even with some lead round nose types, I have had to use OALs as short as 1.045, and with some lead flat nose I was down to 1.015. So... be aware that you may be using OAL lengths that are kind of scary short compared to what some other gun types can handle. I am still contemplating buying a throating reamer just to get the OALs up into the range that I can use in several of my other guns so I won't have to load specifically for the Witness types at very short OALs.

I too use the blue painter's tape method to keep track of the several powder measures I have which I sometimes switch back and forth between my 650s. I have been doing this for years and never had a problem. I even left powder in one as a test from one season to another (Silhouette), then ran a chrono test on the first 20 in the spring of a new season to compare them to the previous year's results. They were the same. Not just close, but almost identical in fps average. So.... I don't bother to dump the hoppers anymore, and it's nice not to have to reset things when I have a preferred load with several powder and bullet types in various calibers.

@jriv9... The other poster said the 1.15 was for the ROUND NOSE bullet. Round nosed bullets for the most part have a long ogive that is thinner in the chamber than most other types and thus can generally be loaded a bit longer than other bullet shapes. Your finding of 1.075 is not unusual in a lot of guns. Though I don't have a PPQ, I do own a couple of TZ types which are also short chambered and require such OALs as you mentioned with a lot of bullets. The SAAMI spec for 9mm runs from 1.16X to as little as 1.00, so even shorter OALs than you are getting are not unheard of. Remember, OAL is ALWAYS gun and bullet specific... ALWAYS! Never rely on anything other than your own findings when reloading for your guns. Just remember to reduce your powder charge when approaching maximums if the data your are using has been listed with a longer OAL. There is no formula for this in case you were about to ask, and this is why most reloaders will eventually get a chronograph because velocity is related to pressure and if you are getting velocities that are seemingly "too good" it is generally because the pressure is higher than expected for the powder. Reductions of powder load with those powders that are fast for the caliber are especially necessary as those types are more often prone to "spiking" than mid-range or slower powders are and pressure can become unsuitable for the caliber quickly.

For several reasons the barrel change was probably the best solution. You don't have to lose too many 10mm brass to see the economy of changing to a 40S&W barrel and the .40 brass is readily available from a lot of sources. Shooting the .40 in the heavier gun will be a lot more pleasant than even mid-range 10mm and load information for 170pf loads with the .40 is common with many powders.

The comment about not cycling the slide using stock springs is the key here. Most stock guns will not cycle below about 140PF, so it's either going to be a new set of springs or shooting loads at that level. 140PF still feels pretty soft and the stock springs will feed more reliably too, but it's a question of "feel" for most people. Some don't like the "sluggish" feel you get from reduced power springs and others like them. It's all about personal preference when you are developing loads and how well you can quickly and accurately shoot the results.

Like Sarge said, if you merely make mid-range loads using data from manuals you probably don't NEED a chrono, but you don't need a lot of things in life that prove to be useful either. A chronograph, to me at least, is key if developing loads for specific purposes. Want to shoot "factory duplication loads" that equal the intensity of your carry ammo? You need a chrono. Want to find out at what level your auto pistol will operate at the low end and use several powders to do it? You need a chrono. Want to go to the ragged edge with some blaster ammo without breaking something? You will definitely need a chrono. Plus the chronograph will tell you a lot of things about your loads that are not just cautionary but also interesting and informative. Like why is one load with a particular powder more accurate than another using a different powder? Could the wider ES and SD figures have something to do with it? How will weather affect my loads? Is a particular load better for long range shooting? Is this lot of powder producing the same results as the last one, and if not how do I know what to do next? So, in my opinion, if you reload much, experiment at all, have some curiosity about what you are doing, then yes you need a chrono. About $100 for a good one and you will have it for years.

I dunno... If you buy a standard large frame and then get a longslide upper in the caliber of your choice you have a pretty good gun at a moderate cost. Plus the magazines, when last I bought them in 2013, were 3 for $75. You would pay that for ONE STI mag. You could still shoot Production, Limited 10, Limited, or have a nice platform to build a race gun, although the costs will go up as they would even with an STI.

Yes, I would think that you would want the heaviest bullet possible with a medium-fast powder to viably get to about 170PF with a 10mm and still give decent ES and SD figures so you know you will chrono well at a match. The uber-fast powders would be low on my list though as that big case might not like them with a heavy bullet. No matter what else, you still have to "run the gun" so you're probably looking at a spring change anyway from the "normal" recoil spring but still heavy enough to feed nicely and return the gun to "zero" for follow up shots.

Of course I'm being kind of "tongue in cheek" about playing my wife with excuses. I have been married to her for 32 years and neither of us would be prone to "fooling" the other. So yes, I will just have to put it out there, though there is some merit to a red dot for the reasons mentioned. I'll never win a National but I could threaten the local guys even with iron sights. I just would like to have the option of campaigning an open gun just once.

Well... I did build a nice 9X23 on a large frame last year that shoots really well, but the frame doesn't have those holes for scope mount and I would need yet another barrel to ream which would have to be a standard rifled one... not a polygon or cone since all my uppers are for straight barrels, plus be long enough to mount a comp onto. Still... I like the round and it makes major with no drama. I do have a 38 Super set up as well, but I like the 9X23 Comp/Winchester brass better as it is more rugged, feeds without any bobbles and reloads nicely plus I have more brass for it than 38 Super which is all the semi-rimmed variety anyway. The "Honey I just can't see the sights well enough anymore" excuse is intriguing and just might work! I could list the costs of cataract surgery vs. the cost of an open gun and make a proposal I suppose. This could be a plan!

Yes... it's there to prevent "setback" and the resulting high pressure that could occur.

@Alaskapopo... I understand your point and mostly agree except with magazines for large frame pistols all of which do not have magazine blocks in them for shorter cartridges. Those will allow some creep. But your point is well taken, and I might add that setback can also cause pressure problems, whether from the feed ramp or other causes that might induce high pressure and cause some barrel ringing. I still say a squib should have been more obvious even in a quick string of fire.

I would hold onto the Lyman book as it gives pressure data that others do not, and like others have said, bullets with similar profiles will have similar loadings. Just start low at a bit less than mid range for auto pistols and work up from there.

Mannnn.... I would have to lose 30 pounds, die my hair and beard black, and get a "Hollywood haircut" before I could strap up in a nice blingy red rig like that. Otherwise I would just scare folks... "Wow you worried that guy might beat you?" "No" says the competitor... "I'm afraid he might have a heart attack!".

plenty of guys running gas pedals here in IPSC (in standard and open) on tanfogs and run a variety of race holsters with no problem at all. what about scope mounts with wings? that is even more protrusion. it's not an issue worth worrying about if you're thinking of one. I have thought several times about building a "race gun" with a Tanfo base, but alas, the wife thinks we and our cats need to eat too. It's not just the gun as you know, but all the "extras" required and the inevitable travel etc. required to make the investment in the gun mean anything. I guess I'm getting too old for this stuff. Still... an "interesting" range gun and rig would be inspirational... heck, even old guys can dream!

@Kneelingatlas: Ah... you seem to have put on a fresh coat of paint. Looks nice! If they shoot as good as they look you'll be a National Champion next week.