MiniUzi

^^ from my original post. thats my stance on indian vs arrow. I don't equate equipment to winning, I do however value the feeling of a win on level ground over one that slopes in my favor regardless the degree. I see your point but I think your example actually shows some inequality. For the guy who has a 10 round capacity in his tube he has one reload to make (he shoots 8 and reloads 9 for example) . For a guy with a 8+1 capacity he has at least two reloads to make unless he runs the gun empty which could be slower right as he has to put one in the chamber and close the bolt? Maybe it is my inexperience but when I picture the above scenario I picture the same shooter with both guns and then ask myself , would he be faster with one versus the other shooting the same scenario. Now extraploate that out to a course of fire with 24 shotgun targets and one guy with 9 round capacity and another with say 14 rounds. I think the potential gap widens. Or perhaps this is dead horse that has been beaten to death. -Todd

Howdy folks, I'm relatively new ot the sport of multi-gun and I'm trying to make sense of the differences I see in various 3-gun competitions nationwide in regards to rules and gear requirements for the different divisions and in particular tac optics or tactical. I can enjoy and appreciate the different flavors and variation that is available out there but it seems to me the underlying rules for shotgun and rifle capacity are all over the place. In some places for shotgun it's 9 rounds max, others 9 before the beep and whatever you can hold after and I've yet to see any regulation on AR-15 capacity for tactical in any matches I've shot or seen online. It seems to me that an event wanting to truly measure the best shooting skill between competitors (versus who has better equipment) for multigun/ 3-gun would want to use the highest common denominator such as a 9 roud max on shotguns and only 30 rounders for AR-15's? I see guys turning shotguns into jousting lances so they can cram in another few rounds after the buzzer for some of these matches. To me it looks rediculous. The same goes for the high capacity magazines such as surefire 60 rounders or the +18 extensions for pmags etc... some guys have em, some don't, but it seems most competitors feel they have to buy some just to stay competitive. What got me pondering this was that I I saw that the USPSA multigun has gone in the direction of more rounds is better after the buzzer for shotguns (9 to start and anything goes after) which got me wondering why or how anyone could think that unevening the playing field was somehow a good idea. I'm a firm believer that a good competitor will do well behind any gun and that equipment, although important, is not as important as the mind and operator behind it. With that being said, I'd prefer to know my place in the ranks is a reflection of my skill compared to the others above and hopefully mostly below me -Todd

awesome thanks Multiple stages per day spread across Fri/Sat/Sun. That will work. Thanks!

I have a few questions. #1 is there still space available? #2 What's the best airport to fly into for this match? thanks

How many days should we expect to shoot? I know last year we did it all in one day and it was a loooooong day. Will the stages be spread over a couple days or what exactly?

hah! wow thanks for sharing that. For a moment I was like "ohh no here comes a fatal flaw with the gun". The problem between ears not in gun is an issue I deal witrh often still as well. Fatigue and bad stuff like that seem to keep company

I run standard on both sides so it's consistent for me regardless of which shoulder I'm shooting with.

Sounds close to my VM tactical. Add in the roulette +2 extension and you have 10+1 and send the carrier off to CRums and there you have it. That's what I'm running as of yesterday when the +2 extension arrived. All and all it came to about $1300 and change when it was all said and done. 22" barrel thoiugh.. not 26

I'd suggest you add the actual date of the event somewhere on the font page. It'd also be nice to know what the max ranges are on the rifle shots if possible. The stages look awesome, can't wait!

I had a buddy who had the same thing happen for a while. After a bit of watching him shoot we found out the reason was that he was hitting the BAD lever while indexing under stress causing the bolt to keep closing. You might try some video of the magwell / ejection port while doing reload drills and see if that gives some insight.

what model versa max?

I too am in awe of my VM tactical. I was going to buy a JM pro and couldn't find one so I bought a VM tactical when one popped up. I could not be happier and I've tired to make it choke and malfunction... it hasn't yet..

Sten magazines are one of the hardest to load subgun magazines of all time. They will literally make your fingers bleed and between those and grease gun magazines it's a wonder how anyone could have loaded them under adverse conditions in battle. If I had the option I'd go with Uzi magazines all week long and twice on Sunday.

Use what is at your disposal. Looks fun and practical. Although the fact that your butt seems to be the focal point in the end of the video isn't lost on me. Female + gun = youtube superstar.

There is nothing there except a signup page.

I've always been a paper and pencil kind of guy when I design for the most part although I make my living in and around computers. I've never quite found any programs that balance the ability to design with the ease of just a pen on paper. I've played with sketchup and I still find it a bit cumbersome at times although I absolutely love the output of a well designed stage. Perhaps it's just the learning curve. With that being said. I have an IPAD and for the past couple months I've been using an app called "paper" to design subgun and 3-gun stages. I use a stylus and it's as basic as basic gets... blue squares for barrels, red lines for fault lines, orange lines for walls or barriers. An example course of fire looks like this That funky mess of chicken scratch translated into this And then this in first person http://www.youtube.com/watchh?v=kgY4ABhWgjg Starting next month I'm going to try some setups with sketchup and see how it goes. One of the cool things you can do with sketchup is import the files into an app called SightSpace which allows you to use "augmented reality" . So you can stand in an empty space like a shooting bay and overlay the sketchup model into the real world to scale. Regarding talent and stage design. It is most definately something learned . I've become a better shooter from designing stages as it gives me a bit of insight into what other designers may have intended. Take concepts from stages you like and piece them together. As long as it's safe

I highly recommend the Blackhawk Omega IV drop leg holster. I run one for my Beretta 92G. A few perks with that holster are that you can make it single, double or triple retention to suit your needs. It's the most durable holster i;ve ever owned by far. It also has a mag pouch on the front of it in case you find yourself needing an additional magazine. It also has an open end where the muzzle is which allows for the use of a suppressor to easily slip through while attached. It's not a race holster by any means but if you want something that will last forever that you won't ever have to worry about your pistol falling out of if you are running like a bat out of hell, it's a good way to go. I can post some pics if you'd like.

Are we going to see the truck back out on the unknown distance range again?

I've set up a few matches for both 3-gun and submachine gun since the panic and I've emphasized quality over quantity. Virginia count is a pretty good way to ensure shooters slow down and get their hits on a few stages. Personally I'd rather shoot more packed matches with fewer shots total than less matches with more shots just to feel I had somehow validated my presence there. Having full ,competitive matches is more important to me than having a sudden drop off of a significant amount of the monthly competitors. I don't see a benefit of forcing competitors to choose which match they attend because coordinators couldn't cut back a bit. This sport is currently in a war of attrition and we need to ensure that as a whole we do not loose the momentum gained in previous years. New shooters make this sport what it will be. I've always thought the role of a coordinator to set up scenarios that extract the highest level of skill out of the shooters and take them into shooting positions and scenarios they would not have found elsewhere. My experience is that it builds better shooters and a stronger club in the end. I've found that a lot of decision making coupled with a moderate round count makes for a pretty solid setup. With that being said I allow people to shoot anything that doesn't damage the steel and is safe. We've had an increase in attendance in the past two months in of all things submachine gun matches due to the semi-auto division allowing pistol caliber carbine and 22lrs In South Florida we have almost no ammo whatsoever on the shelves unless you own a 20 gauge or a 38 special or a few oddball calibers. If it gets bad enough I'll bring guns I can find ammo for and let the competitors use them as stage guns. It is what it is. The show must go on.

I know I'm reviving an old thread but I just want to say thanks for the comparison and the insight on the tactical model guys. You helped me with my buying decision. -Todd

Ronnie and I are looking forward to shooting with you as well Ryan. Had a great time last year and hope we can have a repeat squad of last year which was a blast.

I can't wait for this match! I'm looking forward to seeing what the stages + round count will be. woop!

Nice. It seems if you held the gun a little lower you'd save quite a bit of motion. (or the belt higher )

I'd suggest the 9-hole wall for some fun for your rifle setup. It allows for the most diverse bit of shooting that will apply to the types of engagements you may all run into while deployed. We shoot the 9-hole down here in FL from 50-100 yards since we don't have many ranges past 100. The 9-hole wall allows you to push the shooters ability in having to engage one or multiple targets from multiple holes. All you need one piece of plywood or similar materia and a saw and some time. Some examples. I've shot the 9-hole wall now once a month for about a year and it never gets old. The wall really allows for you to make it as easy or hard as you want it to be. For the course of fire for rifle, you could have the shooter run down range and place their own target and run back with the target of the previous shooter to get heart rate up. Have them engage the target from each of the holes, or some of the holes once or multiple times. Some alternatives, depending on the target(s) you are using, is to have a deck of index cards with a round count and head or body (assuming you are using human silhouette targets) , shuffle the cards, and have them flip a card and shoot what is on it , i.e 2 shots head . Have them work through the deck flipping and engaging. We sometimes toss in a rule like "you can only engage from a hole once". so they are forced to move around. If you can use steel plates there is zero reset time. If you use paper it could be quick if you had each shooter sprint down to replace the previous shooters target with their own and then sprint back. If and when that gets old, have some cards mandate shooting right shoulder vs left. Scoring is simple since you know how many shots should be where you can score the hits/misses. I suppose it'd be too much to ask to see if maybe you can get some of the local bad guys to act as target stands for you guys -Todd Edit: spelling

I applaud you for using an AK in 3-gun. I've done the same thing for quite a while and although I just bought an AR (my first ever) to be competitve in 3-gun with the current rules I enjoy shooging my AK more than the AR. 3-gun would grow even faster if a AK classification / division was opened up with only AK shooters going head to head. I've found that my stock AK with iron sights is the way to go for me and I can't see much helping besides a good muzzle break. Perhaps the day will come when the AR guys can shoot the 4 MOA target out at 400 yards and the AK guys can opt to shoot through a wall of cinder blocks to a target at 100 yards All the more power to ya man. For what it's worth there was a good article about "Accurizing the AK-47" in a major publication perhaps six years ago. I'll see if I can track down the article, it was a good read and had some decent advice in it.