R.Elliott

You're not waiting on the slide, you're waiting on the recoil. The slide cycles long before the muzzle returns out of recoil. Heavier bullets = longer recoil event. Softer feel. Lighter bullets = shorter recoil event. Snappier feel. It's all about preference. I prefer 147s because I feel that the less vent recoil impulse let's me track the sights better, but it's subjective. On the clock the split times are mostly regulated by how fast I can get the sights back on target. Up close wh~ I don't have to aim split times are identical, regulated by how fast it can reset and pull the trigger. I cannot pull the trigger faster than the gun can cycle. So though technically slower to recoil, 157s seem to afford faster visual perception. At least for my eyes.

You could just bend the sear spring a bit to increase the tension. It will affect the d/a pull very slightly since the extra tension will increase pressure on the drag surface underneath the sear face (drags on the hammer). But you probably wouldn't even notice it. That tweak plus possibly a small tweak on the trigger return spring should get you there.

Yeah, not very available here though.

Wow! Sure wish we could use those sweet 115's for ipsc. Alas, we are stuck with the 124/5 grain logs.

Nice! Very informative vids.

When Mr. Bedell built my gun he advised me to stick around 170 pf. Of course, I just had to test that theory and find out for myself. Turns out he was right (bug surprise right?): nudge towards 165 and it gets too bouncy, nudge towards 180 it flattens out but gets hard, 170 is just right with good feedback on the dot and quick, neutral recovery. All powders tried yielded consistent results with the sweet spot varying slightly up or down off the mean depending on burn rate and gas volume. For best all around result, slowest burn (N105) gave the nicest overall dot tracking. Now if I could just get it for less than 70 bucks a pound.....

I doubt you would notice much of a difference. You'd probably get further tweaking load recipes and springs.

You can see it pretty clearly here: Three distinct events occur: Scope mount flexes as recoil begins, flexes again when the slide hits the frame at full stroke, and the whole gun lifts in recoil a significant amount. It's really quite startling to see what is actually happening vs what we percieve to be happening. Edit to fix irritating spelling error.

That's actually the Bedell gun. 13.6 gr. Lil-gun with 124 gr. bullet. Pf was 170. I'm not shooting that load now; it burns too hot. N105 shoots about as flat without all the firery drama. Dot still leaves the glass though. What's cool about Shred's video is that you can also see the dot displace at the moment of ignition from the flex in the scope mount. You can't see this happen at full speed, yet it clearly does.

Strongly agree. The dot is leaving the glass; the shooter just isn't seeing it happen. All the guns in that speed shooter compilation posted above are absolutely leaving the glass. I did own two gold team v12's in 37 super. They were among the flattest guns I've shot, but the dot still left the glass. For the record, I also have arms like an ape and a pretty serious grip.

I've shot a lot of Open guns and I honestly don't think I've ever seen one that completely keeps the dot in the glass during recoil. I think some are definitely "flatter" than others, but I also think that the percieved flatness largely relates to how fast the dot lifts and returns and whether or not it returns to neutral. Also, there are just so many variables in play that it is difficult to get any real measure beyond that which is subjective. The real test is what the timer says.

Double tap, sorry. Stupid cell phone...

http://benstoegerproshop.com/eaa-tanfoglio-witness-trigger-bar-spring ^ Are you referring to the spring that is part of the trigger bar plunger? If so, I have swapped out the stock one for the #18 one Henning sells. Need to polish the the guide and the race it rides in. Yes, that's correct. Looks like you're doing all the right stuff.

Stacking comes mostly from the relatively short mainspring. You can reduce it with the lighter mainspring, but you won't eliminate it completely. You can also lighten the trigger bar spring a little and polish the guide and the race it rides in, then grease it. That will soften things a bit.

Can you post any video of it? While the gun may indeed be too heavy in the nose (extra mass = extra momentum), most people who struggle with this nose-diving issue (in any Division) can fix it with correct grip mechanics. Full length dust covers and full profile slides in Limited Division can be tuned and gripped to recoil to neutral, as can an open gun.

You can also use a piece of the spray tube off of a can of brake cleaner for your slave pin. Works well on the trigger spring g too.

Looks like you are anticipating recoil and starting to lean back just before the shot, then the muzzle dips (flinch) as well just before ignition. Rather than thinking push/pull, imagine you're holding a sledgehammer at arms length. You wouldn't push and pull to do that; you'd just hold it out there and grip it really hard. The muscles of your arms, chest and back will load up in an isometric hold automatically.

Those videos are awesome. Very telling. Funny story: I have an engineer friend who once listened patiently to me as I harangued him for half an hour about some goofy ideas I had for fancy slide cuts, radical comp designs, grip modifications, etc., all in the name of improving the tracking of the gun in recoil. Finally, I wound myself down and asked him, "So what do you think of all that?" He just looked at me with his calm, dead, engineer eyes and said, "I don't think; I measure." That was a real teachable moment for me right there.

Bingo, this is exactly correct. List on a Gold Custom Extreme in Canada is $7,400.00. For that kind of money you could have any of the top builders set a 2011 Open gun any way you want.

Try some epoxy steel.

Pricing is a little different in Canada. The price of the new Eric gold extreme is pushing SVI money. Sure, I know the risks with any competition gun. I've had a bunch and had stuff grenade on me, absolutely. There was usually an issue traceable to build though. Occasionally defective component parts. My old Trubore was a real workhorse though. I was sorry I sold it.

Well as I say, I wasn't cometely sure of the load. It's a few years ago and I don't have my notes handy. Regarding the recoil spring; it may have been 10 or 11 lbs. It was whatever Eric recommended at the time. Thing is though, if you have to rely on a heavy spring to reduce lug-lash, there an issue with the fit. The lugs should be in full contact until the gun links down in recoil. The fit of the barrel hood to the breach face was sloppy as hell, so right there you will get lash. Combine that with "close enough" lug fit and you have an expensive, great looking gun that will last maybe 15k rounds. I sure loved the ergonomics and the handling. They've got that part down pretty well. It would however, benefit a lot from forged frames and slides, compensators made from titanium or at least forgings (both of mine cracked), fitted barrels, better safeties, non-frangible sights, decent fire-control parts etc. For the same money or less, you get all that on a custom built 2011. I dunno, maybe I just got unlucky and ended up with Friday guns. Regardless, I have a Bedell-built 2011 now and couldn't be happier.

They were V8's. As well, every one of them that I've seen had lug battering to some degree, with the severity seeming to depend mostly round count.

I don't have the guns anymore, sorry.

I'm not at home right now so do t have my notes but if memory serves, 9.4 gr. 3n38 X 125 gr. Zero @170 pf. 10 lb spring. Top lugs, barrel and slide, both pretty much evenly. On the sights, I tried locktite, o-rings, silicone to absorb the bounce, pretty much everything. Sight elevation screw still walked out, leaf pin walked out, blah blah blah. I'll be sticking with 2011 from now on or CZ for production. Less hassles.