38superman

It is difficult to get them on the phone because they are quite busy. Leave messages and they will respond. If you must speak directly to them keep trying. Sooner or later someone will pick up.

Define what you consider to be long range

The answer is simple. In your theoretical scenario, everything is equal. The only difference is cartridge. That difference is inconsequential if the bullets leave the barrel with the same rotational and linear velocities. The only thing that affects the bullet after exiting the barrel are environmental factors. Again you have made then identical as well. Your answer is that if all things are equal in the absolute, the results will be equal. Physical law doesn't change from one shot to another. Point of impact will not vary at any range.

When you see the Rocky Mountains for the first time and think, "Thats a really big berm".

Most target bullets in other calibers have a small meplat HP and FCSA shooters could possibly benefit from a similar design. However, its not surprising that this type bullet is not readily available. A 50 is a.military round and was designed to penetrate on hard targets. Every bullet I have ever seen had a full metal jacket design. The round has a niche in the market and is becoming more popular, but in the overall scheme of things it's still a fringe round in sport shooting. I think its just too costly to become a mainstream caliber, but maybe one of the reloading manufacturers will come around to it eventually.

Yeah, I guess you said that already. My bad.

What contour are you planning to go with on the 28 inch barrel?

I know a lot of the PRS guys are shooting the 6's right now and I guess that's the trendy pick. Precision shooters are a fickle bunch. They are on a never ending quest for a competitive edge and the 6 is the flavor of the month. The way I see it,.... Any cartridge that has the powder capacity to push a round out to 1200 yds (and still remain supersonic) is going to be overbore with a 6mm bullet That means short barrel life, especially with high rates of fire heating up the barrel I think I prefer to stick with the 6.5 I've considered the .260 vs the Creedmoor quite a bit and I know much has been said and written about it. Right now I am leaning toward the .260 I like the fact that .260 brass is available from Lapua Don't care much for Hornady brass, (not consistent enough) and that is what it comes down to with the Creedmoor I wouldn't have thought that the factory A-max would shoot that well, so now you've given me something new to consider. IF, I wanted to go with a 6, it would likely be a 243. One more point,,,,, You have built a beautiful precision rifle. What was your reasoning for going with the .308? Tls

I'm getting ready to send my .308 to Phoenix Custom for a make over. I've been thinking I should go with a .260 instead of the .308. I want to use it in precision rifle matches and I just don't think the .308 has the reach to get out much over 1000 yds. However when I look at the pics of this rifle and the groups you've been shooting with it, the temptation to stay with the .308 is powerful. I'm really struggling with this. Especially when I think of all the reloading tools and components I've invested in. Don't like the idea of having to buy all new dies, etc.

CCoker, I'm with you. Maybe not the sexiest girl in the gun cabinet but still so much fun! I can't imagine not having a .308. Steve, I'm with you on the new Rems. I am left handed and that severely limits my options. I was delighted to see that Remington makes a LH Varmint model 700 in .243 I wanted one really bad thinking it was a clone of my old 700 VS with the H-S precision stock, jeweled bolt and decent adjustable trigger. When I actually held one, the rubberized stock, the black parkerized bolt and the general cheap feel of the rifle really dissapointed. The model 700's of my youth were iconic. The standard others were measured against. I guess Remington just decided to go after the WalMart market and cheapen the rifle,.... pity. Unfortunately for me, its still the only LH receiver around unless I want to pay $1200 for a high end action. Tls

Everyone you know wants you to load ammo for them. Even when you meet new people, the conversation starts with "What calibers can you load?"

Guilty

Steve, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I based my thoughts on the fact that Trumpet said: Money is a big consideration, he doesn't expect to compete, at least not anytime soon, and only has access to a 200 yd range. With those factors in mind you don't need to leap anywhere. $150 trigger will get you shooting very satisfactory groups. If you want to upgrade later, a Remmy action will drop into about anything and yes, you will have to spend some serious bucks to bring the gun up to a very competitive level. I would start with a decent chassis, then rebarrel in .260. That way your mags are guaranteed to work. The Remmy has been the basis for a lot of great competitive rifles. In the matches I've been to, I don't remember seeing any FN's or Tikka's but Rem actions were everywhere If you don't want to invest in the upgrades it takes to get there, so be it. A tricked out Rem is still cheaper than a GA precision or Surgeon. All that said, I really can't speak about Remington's quality in modern production. I own a SS 700 which just got an extreme makeover into a custom 6.5x284. I also own a 700 VS which will soon be transformed into a PRS capable gun. Both these guns were produced more than 15 years ago. I have looked at some of their recent production and was terribly underwhelmed.

Remington is never the wrong choice. You can upgrade them any way you like, and aftermarket parts are plentiful. It is very accurate out of the box. Drop in a decent trigger and you're in business. The only down side to my M700 VS in .308 is the 1:12 twist and the long freebore. You can't load rounds anywhere near the lands with anything but the longest bullets and magazine length rounds have a huge jump. You also won't be able to shoot anything much heavier that 175's, but at the distances you'll be shooting 168 SMK's will do you proud. Don't know much about the Tikka or FN but a rifle that comes with a bedded McMillan stock and bottom metal would demand serious consideration. Tls

You will want the 6-24 as opposed to the 4-16x, in my opinion. In matches where shots can stretch out to 750 yds and beyond, the extra power matters. I own a Vortex PST 6-24 with the FFP reticle, and it is a fine piece of glass. This is mounted on my AR for "Designated Marksman" type matches. For precision tactical, don't overlook Horus vision. I also own a Horus Falcon with H-25 reticle. The glass is clean and I love the reticle. Price is comparable to the Vortex. Tls

If you can afford a JP, go for it, even if you have to stretch a little. However, if you can't swing it, I'm betting you can find an upper for $400-500 less money that would shoot absolutely great. I am a big fan of JP rifles. They are an icon of the industry. But they are not the only builder in the world that produces quality hardware.

That is the shop at Phoenix Custom. The gunsmith took those pics when he put the gun together. I've only had it long enough to do one ladder test. 49 grains of H4831 behind a 142 SMK was just under 2750. Nothing too hot yet. Should be able to get 2900 out of it from what I'm reading.

It was the pics from your .308 build that convinced me to go with them. They don't disappoint. The rifle turned out great It shoots so well I am now forced to clean up my technique. No more blaming the gun or ammo when I have a flyer. When I do my part it is dead on.

Yep, I admit it. I'm a southpaw. All my bolt guns are lefties. I am left eye dominant. It makes it hard to own anything other than a few manufacturers in a handful of calibers. If you want anything other than .223, 30-06, 270 or 300 win mag,... you get to know a custom builder. The 6.5x284 started as a Rem SS 700 sporter in 30-06. Only the action survived. It was a nice gun, stainless in a grey/black laminate stock, but after a while a 30-06 is just boring. When I sent it to the gunsmith, my intention was to just have it re-barreled in .25-06 varmint contour. I got a little carried away.

Just for the record,....

I just took my first trip to the range with my new rifle, built by Phoenix Custom. The specs are: Bartlein premium stainless barrel with cut 5r rifling 1:8 twist Rem Sendero contour 26" chambered for 6.5x284 Norma and crowned. Rem 700 action blueprinted. Scope mount holes re-cut and aligned at 8-40. Timney Trigger at 2.5 lbs. Badger Ordnance rail fitted. Obendorf bottom metal. Sniper Grey cerakote. Action bedded into a McMillan A-5 stock. I only shot 2 groups because I wasn't happy with the scope alignment so I am going to pull it off and re-mount it. However, the second group printed 5 shots at .222" at 100 yds.

To answer the original post,.... As others have said, depends on what you want to use the gun for. I just took delivery on a 6.5x284 built on a long action by Phoenix Custom Rifles. The 6.5x284 is incredibly accurate and has the juice to easily reach 1000 yds and beyond. The gun was envisioned as primarily a long range target rifle and has a relatively long barrel. I tried to keep the weight heavy enough to be stable on the bags but light enough that I could still carry it in the field if I ever want to long range hunt with it. It has a reputation as a barrel burner, but I think if you load for accuracy instead of velocity, you will find that your best loads are not always the hottest. Barrel life should be no worse than a number of other common cartridges if you don't hot rod it and let it cool between rounds. That said, I wouldn't use it for tactical matches because at times you will be forced into a high rate of fire and barrel life will suffer. My feeling is that a .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor on a short action is more appropriate for that type of shooting. Personally, I would go with the .260.

I recently bought this same scope. It's still sitting in the box waiting for me to mount it. My plan is to put it on a tactical rifle for designated marksman matches. I like the scope, but there are a couple of things that concern me. The uncapped turrets make me nervous. I can't help but wonder if the rough use and movement in precision rifle will make the scope prone to having the zero moved by bumping the turrets during a course of fire. I also would have preferred that the vertical post was graduated in .2 increments as opposed to .5 That said,... I like the look and feel of the optic. Seems well built. I will put the scope through its paces soon enough. Perhaps time and use will show me that these concerns were not justified.

A JP 15 upper in 6.5 Grendel is about $1700 base price depending of course on any other options you might want you can get an Alexander arms overwatch upper for around $900 I guess the decision would come down to what is the quality and the cost of your local builder

Its a given that different loading manuals will show different max loads if the only comparison is powder and bullet weight. The components will vary and the chambers / barrels that were used to develop the load data are all different. Even if you duplicate all components, you cannot duplicate the test chamber. Therefore, if I am using data from a bullet manufacturer, and I can duplicate all other components, I use their max load. If not, I gather as much data from other sources as I can for the bullet weight/powder combination and take an average. Either way, I use ladder charges to test and work up to the average max. If I see no pressure signs I may push farther and go to the highest published load. That said, I wouldn't push the load to the very limit unless there is a reason to. Really hot loads leave no margin for error and are really hard on brass and barrels. However, if you are working up a long range target or hunting load and need every bit of energy/velocity you can get, then fine, go for it. If you are shooting at relatively close range, accuracy is the deciding factor, not speed. A round traveling at 2800 fps will punch a nice clean hole in paper, ring a steel plate or put down a buck just as well as a 2900 fps bullet. If you find yourself reloading as hot a possible and always pushing the limits of your firearm and cartridge,..... get a bigger gun. Tls