MarkCO

This was my first ever major 3gun match and I really enjoyed it. I was on squad 9 which was a great group of diversity. We had seniors and Super Seniors and every class represented except open. Got to shoot with two Dillon employees, great guys! The stages were challenging and fun and the prize table deep. Thanks JPrifles for my prize! Sabre Defense gave away a random drawing rifle of ANY configuration to one lucky competitor, that alone is worth the chance. DPMS gave away 4 uppers by drawing to the bottom 50 competitors. Having never shot in a major competition, I learned a LOT. I have never really even fired my AR past 100 yards, although I had calculated the ballistics. I am going to drive a few hours a few times this winter to practice LR. For those who don't know how the match is scored, every stage is worth 100 points, time based, 180 seconds time out on every stage, time added for misses, FTEs, and FTNs. Paper must have one "A" or two hits anywhere to not incur a FTN. Steel and clays are hit or miss. Stage 1 (rifle): 4 steel flash targets in an L shape, 185 to 235. Six varied tough positions spread over about 25 yards. About half our squad timed out, it was our first stage. 26 rounds required. Stage 2 (rifle): 6 paper in 3 groups, 2-4 yards, 4 steel flash targets in a square about 145 to 175. Shooting from the side of a hill across a wooded ravine to the steel. 3 of 4 positions, covering about 12 yards had paper and steel, the otehr steel only. I bashed the tree with my head on this one, oops. We all shot it under time and got almost all of the hits. A huge deer ran out of the ravine while one of our squad was shooting. 28 rounds required. Stage 3 (pistol): 21 paper targets in a gauntlet fashion up a creek bed running about 25 yards. Looked easy, took some planning and skill. There was a position at the end where you had to shoot the last target through a 10" round hole in a huge boulder. This is the stage where a deer ran past a competiitor as it was being chased by a mountain lion. 21 rounds required, most shot 42. Stage 4 (shotgun): 6 clays, 3 falling steel plates (slugs) and 3 steel swingers on the crest of a small hill, 7 positions over about 30 yards. You started off shooting 2 clays with shot at about 5 yards and then climb the hill to shoot 4 more clays and then 3 falling plates with slugs. A few tried them with shot and they did not even move. Then turn 180 and run down the hill to 5 marked postions at which you engaged the slug swingers every time. Slugs were from about 30 yards to 50 yards. 6 shot and 18 slugs required. Stage 5 (rifle and shotgun): 6 paper with rifle and then 15 steel tagets with birdshot. You started with rifle on a railroad tie and at the start shot paper while moving across the creek on a railroad tie bridging the creek. Once at the shotgun, put down safe'd rifle and shot the 15 steel while climbing a hill and onto a tailing pile. On this stage Samson offered a critique of each shooter when you were finished. 6 rilfe and 15 shot required. Stage 6 (shotgun): This was a "speed" shotgun stage in a ruins. 6 clays from one area, 6 falling steel paltes from another, 3 clays from the next and then 8 calys from the last, about 30 yards. This was a very cool stage. I got to watch Burkett smoke it in 22 seconds and Butler smoke it in 30 seconds, the respective open and TS winners. I also saw the next 3-4 fastest times after those. Daniel Horner, heck of a nice guy and amazing shooter, had a malfunction that appeared to cost him about 5 seconds for a total of 35. 24 rounds required. Stage 7 (rifle): Another cool stage shot across a small canyon, 75 to 80 yards on 4 flash targets set in a square about 15 yards on each side. 6 positions on a two tiered shelf. I got to watch the 3 fastest times on this stage also. This was Burkett's only noticeable bobble in the match, 80 seconds, 2nd place on the stage in open. He fired about 20 extra rounds. I did well on the stage. If you have ever hunted deer in a canyon, this is the same thing, just 24 times in a row, really fast! I kicked myself for wasting time going to sitting on the last two positions, I know I can make good hits stading, but I chickedned out at the last second. Some people thought the targets were 8 inche plates, I thought the were at least 12" plates. THis was all about getting into and out of postion. 24 rounds required. Stage 8 (shotgun pistol): On the side of a hill, engage 18 clays and then 5 paper with pistol while running 25 yards. How fast can run load your shotgun while running up a rocky path was the big question here. 18 shotgun and 5 pistol (most shot 10 or more). I was a little disappointed in the lack of pistol, only 26 required rounds, but other than that and a delay in starting the awards ceremony, nary a glitch. The ROs were professional, helpful and polite. We finsihed every stage early, got to watch most stages being shot by other squads and the wildlife and scenery are awesome. I was glad I took 100 rounds of 69 gr. MKs for rifle, I shot them all. 55 grainers did not move the flash targets enough for my liking, but the ROs were all awesome in calling hits. Some rain at night made for a damp first stage, but nothing that would have affected anyones scores. A few squads had a little rain finishing up a few stages Friday, but again, nothing that appeared to affect scores at all. Great setting, great ROs and sponsors, challenging courses...I'll go back again.

Kurt, you did not spell it right, but I've seen worse. I'm not sure I could spell it til I was about 8! Heck, we don't enter spelling Bs, so no worries. Best, Mark

My opinion is that the rules should be changed to state that disappearing clays must be engaged or incur a FTE and leave them at 10 points. That, to me, puts everyone on a more even level and will encourage more local clubs to use them while not being a huge penalty for a miss, if it truly is a miss and not just a skip. Kind of like some points for engagement and some points for the hit. That also tends to reduce the slam factor if, by chance, an RO misses seeing a "Golden BB" (or actually a #8) and the clay hits the ground and shatters.

Did I miss a match schedule? All I know is to be at the Coors event center by 7am on Thursday morning. I hope to be down by about 6pm on Wednesday. I'm all packed and ready to go after a short workday tomorrow. See you all there.

JJ, what is the hump to and from stages like for this match? Are competitors allowed to drive to any of the stages? What about the use of an ATV/golf cart for the match?

Having hosted, taken and co-taught courses with Matt, his "classroom" IS the range. Targets, barricades, some steel if available and a canopy to get out of the sun while he talks for small amounts of time are all you really need. Matt is an awesome teacher, you will be very glad you took a course from him. If you really want to get the most out of a class from Matt, I'd suggest getting his videos and watching them, practicing, etc. a few months out. I'd defiantely plan to include a local match, but not a major match. Shooting with Matt is great for the learning, but as most people will change a few things due to his instruction, a major match might not be the best idea. If anyone has any Qs that I could answer, drop me a note, I'd be more than glad to answer.

Yes, that is accurate. One thing that must be considered in port design is that since we place the ports at the end of the barrel (or middle to end), some rearward motion has already occured when the ports start to act. An "overcomped" firearm can actually be harder to shoot than a slightly under-comped one. If we have some rearward thrust and then attmept to completely counter that thrust, we would have to move the firearm forward and then we would have to stop that motion. From a shooting perspective, it is better to be slightly undercomped and deal with some recoil. If you read Dave Sample's post carefully (one of the premier smiths IMHO) you will note that he understood the problem and managed to deal with it using a lower velocity load than was the norm. That takes more skill and precision than using the higher velocity loads. In order to have the most amount of gas mass to deal with (and make the job the easiset) choose the powder with the highest charge weight. All gunpowders, regardless of burn velocity, create a mass of gas equal to the mass of the powder charge since they use no combustion air from the atmosphere.

Granted I did not read all of the threads on this post...I'd go blind...But Billski pretty much summed up the problem in his first post. And, since I did not see it yet, and I want someone to be impressed...Pv=nRT also applies. I am a mecahnical engineer with specialization in fluid dynamics (gases ARE fluids) and while I did not actually see it posted specifically, the problem is one of mass transfer, or momentum. Gas pressure and volume...not really, but kind of. Related pop quiz...how does a jet engine create propulsion? Actual answer at bottom of post. If you know the answer, you have a basis for understanding comps/ports design. The Tru-Sight expansion chamber, regardless of what the officials say, IS a compensator. Go find an A1 M-16 compensator, it is the same thing. The problem CAN be mathematically solved for a given set of variables with a fixed breech and barrel...If I know the clamping force of your grip, the rotational friction of your wrist, the actual pressure curve (area and spikes) of the powder, weight of the ejecta (powder and slug), bearing surface of the slug on the actual bore, actual chamber and bore dimensions, density altitude (for simplicity), ambiant temperature, humidity (mass basis) and the total firearm weight. All of these except the pressure curve can have a static value. But the pressure curve must be expressed in an equation based on time. Oh, and I'll need a way to puncture the case right before the primer ignites to affect mass flow as the powder ignites, of ocurse with some tubes. IF you want to add in a cycling slide, I'll need an expression for the actual dynamic friction of the slide, an expression for the spring force as a function of slide position, and slide mass. Three simulataneous equations is not too bad, paper and pencil solution, probably about 2300 hours. Computer model, maybe an hour or so of Cray time. So I do all this and what I come up with is that I need about 250 small fast acting valved ports with evacuation tubes. Hmm, let's see, I bet they could be built for about $10,000/barrel, if you order about 10,000 barrels, email me for the address to send your $10 million to and I'll get started right away. It certainly can be done, but no-one wants a port in the chamber itself. It becomes an exercise in futility becasue of the cost constraints. A firearms manufacturer asked me if I could design a novel concept he had in mind. Sure, but at $1000/unit, not worth the time to even think about it. But the military has paid for a very similar item. There are some good comps, some better than others. But the scratch is the constraints. There has to be enough energy to cycle the slide safely and reliably, keep the firearm in battery and deliver the projectile downrange. As the window gets wider, the port/comp gets "less" efficient. PQ ANSWER: Jet engines produce thrust by mass transfer, using the energy in the fuel to suck in and "throw" the air mass to the rear. The equal and opposite reaction, based on mass transfer equations, thrusts the plane forward.

What finally helped me was shooting full mags as fast as possible and trying to watch the sights, not worrying about the target at all. If anything, I am too accurate on the speed courses now, or to put it correctly, I am seeing more than I really need to to make a good shot. The FO degraded my accuracy and I went back to black.

One biggie for me on a match like you are talking is start and finish times being conducive to travel. PEOPLE putting on the match are a biggie. The ROs must know what they are doing and have done it before, strict, but fair. GOOD prompt communication re questions, area amenities, etc. High round count, over 150, is a positive, but I really like more challenging stages with at least 2, if not 3 or 4 ways to complete the course that are fairly close in times overall. Like a stage with 4 ports, and 1 or two can be skipped, if you can make the long hard shots, or with speed, can be hosed. Prizes don't make much difference to me really. An excellent trophy match for $50 is better than a bad prize table match for $200. Picking a weekend that does not compete with any other decent matches.

Congrats to all, also... Matt, were stages 9 and 12 really difficult or what?

I've been using Berry's Plated bullets for about 8 years now. 9mms, .38/.357, .40/10mm, .41 Magnum. I tested the Raniers, National and a few of the polymer coated bullets. I've shot them through Glock factory barrels to tight match Bar-Sto barrels in several plastforms, and with a fairly decent crimp. I know I have shot at least 40,000 of them, probably more. So I read this post with interest. I went a "remeasured" my Berry's in .40. My 135 RS was .401 from my current use and from the last batch also. My 165 FPs were also .401. My 180 RS were .402. This is what they have always been for me according to what I have now and my log books. My IPSC load (G35 with a Bar-Sto Barrel) is 5.7 grains of WSF for a 170 PF. I use a Lee factory crimp die in the final station of my 650 and length is 1.130". For steel I use Clays pushing the 135 at just over 1000 fps. Both loads are very accurate. My .41 Magnum load uses Lil'Gun pushing the 210s at 1600 fps, sub 2" group at 50 yards. I have never had a tumbling problem. Double Strike is a second sizing operation, not another plating operation.

Which one? There are 4 USPSA nationals now. NOT all of the top shooters shoot USPSA. Koenig for one has not been on a SS in a while and Miculek does not shoot autos at the HG nationals. There is a pretty good group that shoot ONLY 3-gun matches now also and a bunch who do not. Except for Jerry, there was not a major 3-gun match winner in the show. I liked the show, it was a bit different. I think the stages could have been a LOT better. The last stage was kind of a waste of ammo. The miss penalties were obviously not high enough. Our top shooters burning cartridges without really aiming was anti-climatic. Mike, even though she is MUCH cuter than you, the "play by play announcer" did not add much to the overall production. I agree that showing the stage diagram and an animation of the stage from a shooters perspective would be very cool. I know it was tuff, but I REALLY think you should do it again Mike. Heck, I'd even offer to help if I thought it would do any good. 10 shooters, 10 stages. One stage designed for each shooters "best" or standout skill might be interesting. Anyway, thanks MIke (and Robin and Sponsors of SG) for a good show and for this specific match on the show. I really enjoy it, and so do my kids...KUDOS

Looks like the transportation from Portland to the Match Hotel never got done. I sure could use a ride from Portland to the Match Hotel tomorrow. If anyone has transportation, I'd be willing to chip in. I land at 1pm Monday. I'll check here tomorrow morning.

Rich, Zak already does teach...http://coloradomultigun.com/#clinics Matt's DVDs can be bought from right here on Enos site also. I was errant in not recomending that in my first post.

Good training is hard to come by for sure. I'd recomend that first you get Matt Burkett's DVDs and watch them. Then get Saul Kirsch's books and read them. Brian Enos book is also highly recomended. (You can get Enos and Kirsch books from Burkett also). Shoot a match or two. DON'T buy anything in terms of equipment. Then you will be ready for a class from Matt. I've trained a lot of people and when I was training, I had Matt up several times. He is not only THE shooter with more 3-gun match wins than anyone else, he KNOWS how to teach. Many of the best shooters just flat can't teach. (How good of a coach has M. Jordan been?) Matt is a very intelligent indivudal, not just a great shooter, who will teach you how to fish, not just feed you one. He will watch you shoot, figure out what you need to work on and then help you understand what and why and make the changes. I have watched Matt train all levels of students and a little bit of homework before you take a class will pay off enormously. To be sure, I've taken many courses from other "top" trainers and mostly been dismally disappointed. Don't settle for closer or cheaper unless you are just goofing around. Matt IS the best, and he is fair and honest too.

So If I plan on using a forearm carrier for my shotgun rounds I have to wear it the whole match even if there is no shotgun on the stage? Everything else stays on my belt normally anyways but if it is a high round count shotgun stage i like to carry extra on my left forearm carrier. My understanding is that it must be on your person. The location can change however. So you could put it in a pocket, but you have to carry it on every stage. Again, that is my understanding from talking to Blane. Not sure when the rules will be updated.

Much to the dismay of Burkett, I bought one. The trigger is the exact same as an 11-87 except the carrier release button is twice as long, it is metal. I've shot it in two matches so far. The mag tube, where the gas piston rides, feels like it is Teflon coated, it is very slick. It does not hold the dirt and grime, and in fact, seems cleaner than the old 1100s and 11-87s after a few hundred rounds. It cycles everything so far except the 1 ounce Fiocchi spreaders. I've shot the prom Win, Fed and Rem, PMC and Win light dove loads. It has cycled all flaovrs of tactical slugs and buck I have fed it, Rem, Fed, Wolf, Win, S&B. I'm not that tall and the standard length stock was too long, put a Choate on it. I've run 250 rounds through it 4 times now with a minor clean in between. Very happy with it so far.

I also got my confirmation back, twice. Steve Hulet changed his e-mail address, it is now this: shulet@hwacpas.com So that is what I would e-mail to with app questions. Blane did say the match is full and the prize table is good! They are making some good (IMHO) rule changes. This is not gospel, but Blane indicated that the pistol would be allowed to be carried on all stages. If your long gun goes down, after about 20 seconds or so of frustration, the RO will allow you to finish with your pistol if need be. Pistol can have a mag inserted, but empty chamber on stages where it is not required. Also, all accessory equipment will be required to be worn on all stages. You can change positions and do not have to carry ammo you will not be using, but the ammo and mag carriers must be on you for all stages.

Just to make sure you all got the "memo", the match is in Albany, OR, not Bend... Match Hotel: Holiday Inn Express in Albany, Oregon. They are offering the following rates: Single Occupancy - $83 Double Occupancy - $88 Triple Occupancy - $93 Quad Occupancy - $98 Complimentary Express Breakfast, free high speed internet, parking and access to the Business Center. While no round count is listed, the MOR side match is $50, 3 stages, open class only and held on the 27th. MarkCO

I hope so, I sent in my app over a month ago now and nothing yet.

I have used Sparks, Kramers, Blade-Tech, Uncle Mike's and a hoard of others. I was a big supporter and user of Sidearmor for years. However, the Comp-Tac is the best. The locking paddle, or even the paddle, are fast, comfortable and of excellent quality. I use one of the IWBs too for the G27 and the locking paddle for my 1911s. I have sold dozens of holsters I have tried and it is hard for me to think that there can be much more improvement, I do have several nice Sidearmors for sale.

I think it makes a huge difference. I started with 1911s and then went to Glocks because it cost me too much time and money to keep 1911s running. Then after many years with Glocks, I went back to 1911s. I shot the GSSF Glock match recently, 4 prior times I had been in the top 20 in Amatuer Civilian. This most recent match my time was more than twice my previous worst time. 2 years shooting 1911s and I looked like a newbie dropping shots low and left. I checked my sights and they were perfectly on. Full power ammo may have had a slight affect, but not enough to double my times and toss "mike" around like a red-headed stepchild. When I shoot 1911s, shooting Glocks at speed becomes more difficult. On the other hand, shooting Glocks and picking up a 1911 for a match does not seem to be a big deal. I do have short fingers and the longer pull is part. No matter if I have been shooting Glocks or 1911s, the revolver seems to be about the same, but I have all of 6 or 7 mathces shooting the 610 so I would not consider myself accomplished with that platform at speed. I also find that once hunting season starts, my pistol shooting speed tends to slow down.