dcloudy777

It's that time again folks. The time of year that I have spent 10 hours in the car coming back from FNH thinking about 3-gun most of the trip. This year's topic: Tactical Optics is too big. Over 80% of shooters at FNH this year shot in TO, and that's probably reflected in other majors. Big divisions make for really long prize table waits (for those of us that aren't very good), and makes it tough to "rank" prize table stuff all the way down to 200+ places. So here's the crazy scheme: Split TO in to Modified and Super Modified. Super Modified is basically TO as it sits now. Modified is similar, but with 4X max magnification and 30rd mag limits on the rifle, 9-round capacity (even after the buzzer) on the shotgun, and 17-round magazine limit on the pistol. This would make for a pretty significantly lower "cost of parity" for equipment than current TO, and make the guns (especially the shotgun) a bit more "real-world" applicable. DISCLAIMER: Not trying to change the world here, or claiming I've invented a better mousetrap, or anything like that. It's just discussion... you know, for the sake of having stuff to discuss on a discussion forum.

That's a neat concept for a match. I wouldn't want to shoot them all like that, but a "one-off" event like you describes sounds cool. That's actually, IMHO, the beauty of the "outlaw 3-gun" model. Different MDs can experiment and offer different match styles.

I've thought about bring 3 shotguns so I never have to reload....

The Four Rules disagree.

If there's a dump barrel situated where it would allow a gun to be pointed at my back, I'm leaving. Guns are "safe" by virtue of two things: the direction in which they are pointed and the absence of things (like fingers) messing withy them. A gun sitting in a properly configured dump barrel/bucket is safe, irrespective of it's condition. But that's just me.

I'm still scared to pull the buffer and spring out of the tube on my rifle... I'm pretty sure parts or going to fall out. Cycling it sounded like a rusty barn door closing. Between that and the barrel nut coming loose on Stage 1, I think it's fair to say my rifle might be ready for an overhaul. Still a great match though.

Is there a way to get the block that comes on the Colt Competition rifles? I saw a few of them at FNH last weekend, but I can't find one for sale without a rifle attached....

I think a couple more options in the "reason you wouldn't go back" section might be in order. Some matches feature a "style" of stage design some folks just don't like (stages too short and fast, stages too long and complicated, too physically demanding, etc.) Some matches I'll probably never go back to because they were really far away and hard to go to , but I wanted to go shoot it once to see what it was like.

Wow... just wow. I gotta remember that one... that's some weapons-grade whining there. Maybe you were going along right behind him and kicking dirt at his feet like an arguing baseball manager.... As for the DQs, I have to echo some of the sentiments already expressed. The ones I saw or heard detailed accounts of were certainly not stage-related. There wasn't really anything approaching a 180 trap. I don't recall any dump barrels that were awkwardly placed or loose or otherwise prone to catching someone out. My opinion: most of the DQs (all the ones that I know about) were a result of simple lapses in concentration (aka brain farts) or just pushing too hard to go fast (quite a few of the DQs were on the short, simple "drag race" stages).

I gotta get a tac-optics rifle....

Just an update and an FYI for anyone who may search for this info in the future. It's the "standard" ramp-mounted dovetail size (.340), and .312 height. Marbles makes an excellent replacement, part # 603126 (Green FO) or # 603125 (Red FO)

Our guns or your guns?

I think one of the big takeaways from this is this: No matter how much thought the stage designer puts into a stage, the idea that shooters aren't going to "out smart" him/her is optimistic at best. It's just brute force computing, if you will. How long does a really good stage designer think about a stage being designed... a couple of hours, then maybe a couple more actually "on the ground" setting things up? And that's probably being pretty generous... there are a bunch of stages at every major match. Now think about 200 shooters thinking just 10 minutes each about that stage.... that's 33.3 hours of shooters (some them literally the best in the world), thinking about the same "problem". Somebody is going to invent a better mousetrap

Since I pretty much sucked at traditional weak hand when I started, I went straight to deuces as soon as I could. At several matches early on, when I could still look around and find that I was the only one in the squad dropping deuces, I actually opted for the shotgun on several optional pistol/shotgun steel stages and it paid off for me—I was faster reloading the shotgun to hit small knockdown steel than the guys who were burning two or three pistol shots at each plate, or slowing way down for those precision shots. That's the kind of "option" targets that work. Big honking plates on tiny bases at 7 yards are the kind of "option" targets that don't work.

I like idea of having the option of engaging as many targets as possible with the pistol, but for most targets, there should be a significant "disadvantage" to doing so (this mimics real life fairly accurately). So the key is thinking of targets and ways to present targets that are tougher with pistol than shotgun (or rifle). Small targets, moving targets, heavy targets....

Well by that logic we should just have rifle matches. Life-threatening attacks by flying birds are pretty rare.

Glad to hear the move away from time-plus. Having some short-ish stages, some medium stages and some long stages is good. Having all stages "matter" to the overall outcome of the match is good. Time-plus pretty much makes that impossible. It might be interesting to use the raw data form various matches (everything is computerized these days) determine the rankings using factored stages and time-plus scoring and see how different results would have been. Well, interesting to accountant-types maybe.... numbers and I don't get along.

You can, but the FN barrels are pretty expensive... and it's not like the 22" gun is not perfectly good for home defense... I'd save the money. Whatever rifle you're using for 3-gun is a much better defensive option anyway.

Who wants to shoot 100+ 4" shotgun plates at 20 yards in a match so the only option is shotgun not pistol? The point is that you can set targets of any shape size and at any distance you want as long as it's not an optional target. You can have both hard and easy pistol and/or shotgun targets in the same array. If you make everything optional pistol you gotta make the target presentation such that it's too hard to shoot with a pistol therefore forcing the shooter to shoot everything with a shotgun. Wait until you get good enough with a pistol to see what I'm talking about. You won't like it either. Actually your 2-gun concept sounds even better... just leave the pistols for pistol matches. Okay, I think we're actually on the same page here. Except for the whole "getting better with a pistol" thing.... I peaked a few years back, and I'm comfortable with that.

So more bayonet-range hoser targets, but now you have to shoot them with a shotgun? Yuck.

Okay, I see what you're getting at. It's nothing that can't be fixed with stage design though... "optional" targets have too often become "pistol targets that you can use your shotgun on". If they become more "shotgun targets that a pistol can neutralize, but it's going to take more time", then balance can be restored with out turning into 3-gun IDPA. Good examples: Those wretched 4" round plates at more than 7 yards... clays can work too, but the wrong kind of holder can get beat up by pistol rounds. Poppers set heavy where it takes a very high pistol hit (or maybe even multiple hits like a subgun match) to knock them over Pretty much anything moving.... that's what shotguns are for after all... Opportunities for "doubles"... really bring "risk versus reward" into the equation.... If you'd get a lot of complaining about it in a USPSA stage, it's probably a good candidate for a "pistol/shotgun" target.

How can making shooters think more and make decisions "dumb down" the game?

I hate time-plus and think you should put your muffs back on on the clock. So at least I'm consistently a jerk.

Well, it seems like there a lot fewer "options" at FNH this year than in the previous matches... timely.

A few of each actually, and quite a few other CZs I couldn't fully ID because they were holstered. For the record, I shoot a SP01 Shadow that's been converted to SAO.