wsimpso1

Best thing to do is to install the 3 inch shell lifter with the EZ Loader. There are other threads on this topic recently. I have never thought through the M870 shell lifter in a M1100 before, so let's go through that. The M1100 has to lock open on each shot in order to give the magazine time to feed the next round onto the lifter. The M870 shell carrier (Rem's name for the shell lifter) does not have the parts or cuts for the carrier latch, nor does it have the pin hole to mount the EZ Loader. Without the carrier latch, the action bars and bolt would open and either close without a new round or jam up on the new round. So if you started with a M870 carrier, you would have to cut it for the carrier latch, drill it for the EZ Loader, and then you still would not have the benfits of the 3" Carrier. Better to invest in Sweeney's book and install the EZ Loader to a 3" Carrier. This thread covers the topic fairly well. Sweeney's book is really good on setting up and taking care of the M1100 too. Good Luck! http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26851 Billski

Mobil 1 is pretty good stuff... The best stuff would be a high viscosity motor oil made from hydrocracked base stock, but I don't know if any is currently made. Hydrotreated base oils are actually better than synthetic oils for resisting thermal breakdown of the oil because the hydrocracking takes out almost all of the unstable components in the oil. Synthetics have a narrow molecular weight range, but they still have some unstable components. I will ask our oil guy and see if he can tell us something useful. Billski

Cameron, There was just a thread on this topic, lessee: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26981 I think that you will find it useful. I have Miculek on my three-gun rifle, and when I think about it, it has a lock ring. I would clean throughly and use blue Loctite per my posting. It works on both of my comped rifles and both of my High Power rifles with flash hiders. Billski

First, the muzzle does not get as hot as the breach, so there is less heat resistence needed at the muzzle. Second, I do not worry so much about being able to disassemble when I want as I do about it disassembling itself when I want it to stay together. Heat can always remove Loctite. It is tough to recover a blown stage because the damned thing came loose... Some folks like to clock the comp some to take out some of the rotation, but that is usually only a few degrees, maybe from straight up 12 O'clock over to 1 o'clock for right handers or 11 o'clock for lefties. If these angles kick up excess dust in prone, that comp won't work well straight up either... Once you have some theory, leave the Loctitie out while you test and decide what you like... If your brake has a lock-nut, the lock-nut and comp can be tightened against each other and it will hold fine for long enough to do some testing and adjusting to find out what angle suits you best. Skinny lock-nut wrenches can be bought from many places, and off of the Snap-On trucks if no where else. Pedal wrenches can be had from your friendly nieghborhood bike stores. Brakes without wrench flats will need a strap wrench. If there is no lock-nut, you can still make it adjustable for testing - buy a GI peel washer and a 1/2" lock washer. The peel washer has a solid part, and then a bunch of thin washers all glued together. You can make it thinner by catching one ply with a knife point and peeling. Save the ones you take off to make it thicker again. The lock washer is for when you need a bunch of thickness, and when Parkerized is a GI part for the prong and A-1 style flash suppressors. They cost less at the hardware store. Then once, you have figured out where you want it, have at it with the Loctite. If your brake does not have wrench flats on it, I would stay away from red - Imagine having to put a strap wrench on your hot comp and watching the strap smoke... Since the muzzle does not get as hot as the breach, blue will still work, and it takes a lot less heat to make removal possible. If there is no lock-nut, I would assemble with the peel-washer and lock washer anyway, plus blue Loctite. This gives you some static torque against the Loctite for curing and to make sure that firing does not move it. If you do have wrench flats and a lock-nut and insist upon red, use only a couple drops on the barrel where the nut goes, spin the nut on, then use ONE drop close to the lock-nut and spin things together. I like to set the nut at about 1/8 turn from where you want everything to go, then spin the brake on and tighten against the nut. The nut moves some to be in place and that is it. Adjust the position of the nut before tightening to adjust where it ends up to make this work. Billski

I agree that learning this from the start would have been helpful. Wish it were me... I have had 25 years of owning pistols now, and I have only been exposed to Brian's wisdom for the last two shooting seasons. And it has taken both of those seasons to get to this point, what with unlearning lots of stuff and replacing it with other knowledge. So, experience makes it easier, eh? Good. Perhaps the fall will be a time of real growth. Thanks for the good advice. Billski

Brian and Jake, Coming from you guys, I will definitely apply the advice. Thanks for the support. Billski

In the last couple months, I have been able to see the sights through most of recoil and most of the time they came back to the target close enough to alignment that I could nudge them a bit, and then the gun would go off again. Useful but not the tremendous event of having the sights just land back on target aligned. Then I had two practice sessions where I had my moments of epiphany... Last Wednesday, I was shooting 20 yards on a paper plate, staying on the plate, with draw and fire pairs. Hits were pretty evenly distributed on the plate, and I was feeling pretty good about that. Then I started to track the sight through recoil, see the flash, and have the sights come back down roughly aligned. Not perfect, but white was showing on both sides of the front sight, elevation was good, and the whole thing was on the paper plate. COOL! I stopped and thought about what I had seen for a couple minutes, cleared my mind so that I could observe what was happening, and then continued. I think that the mind clearing allowed me to continue being observant, but I am not sure... Now tracking the sight and seeing the flash and the sights returning to the center of the target was happening almost every shot. Well, it was soo cool seeing the whole shot that I stayed with it for awhile because I believe that when you are doing something well, you should do it a lot. Burn it in, until somethng changes, then STOP. It felt almost slow, but I tried to just accept it and trust that this was good. Next thing I know, I have burned through all of the ammo I brought with me (160 rounds), the gun is HOT, and the center 4" of the plate is just gone... Well, I thought about this some more, and went back to the range with 110 rounds on Friday. And it happened again! This time, I started seeing it after only first couple of rounds. I not only shot from offhand, I tried cover from both sides, standing and kneeling, even using 90 degrees of cant. WOW! It still felt like slow motion, and again ripped the centers out of the plates. Very cool. Why couldn't this have happened a week ago, before the Michigan IDPA Match? Now comes the rest of the story. I did not shoot on the weekend, and the next two weekends will be full of great stuff but no shooting, so it will be three weeks before I get a chance to see if it shows up despite the adrenaline dosage of a match. So how do I maintain this? I have read Brian's book twice now. I do know that the frame of mind has to be one of awareness, that the gun skills have to be fully in the subconscious skill category, and I already use the heck out of rehersal, but is there anything else that I can use to keep this thing happening through a period where shooting will be scarce, and then be able to have it happening when I can finally take it to a match in Septemeber? Thanks in Advance! Billski

Oooops.... "Gunsmithing: Shotguns", Patrick Sweeney, Krause Publications.

Sweeney's book covers the lifter starting on page 244 and page 246 is where he describes adjusting things. I got Sweeney's Shotgun book and Pistol book through Border's online service, but I think that they are available through some of the catalog houses for gun stuff too. He has specific directions for disassembly/assembly on many shot guns, a whole chapter on each of the Rem M870, Rem M1100/1187, Browning 05/Rem M11, Mossberg 500, Win M1897, and Practical Shooting. The man has owned speed records for shotgun on pins and the like and is an active USPSA shooter. A good book to have... Billski

I do not know if the 1100 CM has the 3" lifter or not, but you can find out by pulling the trigger group from the reciever and looking at the shell lifter. The 3" lifter has a little finger cut and bent from the main shell lifter stamping that should catch the carrier latch and hold it back when the carrier latch is pushed back enough to unlock the lifter. The carrier latch is plated steel and is the part that the holds the shell lifter from coming up (and latches the gun open). How this works: When the action bars and bolt are locked open (happens every shot), the carrier latch holds it open. As the action bars go towards the open position, they open the shell latch and allow the next shell in the magazine to start aft. When the shell gets to the back end of its travel, it hits the carrier latch, unlocking the action bars and bolt, and everything closes. This works fine most of the time when shooting the gun, and millions of M1100's have been built and run fine this way. Sometimes the action bars and bolt are bouncing around and the latch opens and then closes before the action can actually get past the latch. Enter the 3" carrier with the little finger to keep the carrier latch locked back until the shell lifter moves. It has the nice feature of allowing you to rack the gun manually and then it will close immediately if another round was waiting in the magazine... Sound like what you had prior to installing the EZ Loader? Without that feature, it will lock open and you will have to hit the Loader to get it to close. So, if you have the little arm (Sweeny has photos and talks about adjusting it in his book) and you bent this arm while fitting the EZ Loader, then you have to readjust it to get it working again. Sweeny's book does have this detail... Billski

One point not previously covered is that ESP ammo power factor is 125,000. If you are shooting ammo at factory velocities, you are taking a much bigger hit in recoil recovery time than you have to. If you handload, you can load to much lower velocities and recoil than what factory ammo gives, and will actually recoil slightly less than 9 mm. If you do handload, test both the ammo and the gun. Make sure that you have 30-50 ft/sec more than you need and that your gun is reliable with that ammo. You might need a lighter spring to be reliable with that ammo, but the 9mm spring from the factory may do it. There are gobs of forum threads on these topics for you to look at on this topic. Bullet Wt Factory Vel IDPA ESP Floor 155 1205 806 165 1150 758 180 1015 694 Go to a USPSA match, and they give you credit for the extra recoil with Major scoring, or shoot downloaded ammo and take Minor scoring. Cross training between the two games is good for you. Billski

Chrome lining of the bore and chamber was put on military barrels to prevent corrosion from tough field conditions and to allow use of corrosive (chlorate type) priming. The US and western European militaries have been using non-corrosive priming since the 1950's, but many other countries were still producing perchlorate type primers until recently. Take Away - Civilians really do not have much need for Chrome Lining. Chrome lining can be applied to any barrel, good or bad. If it is applied to an excellent barrel, it can be great. I have one (an older 7" twist Colt) that was not quite up to standards, and I put the 3-4-5 bullets of the Tubb FF kit through it and now it shoots match bullets under a minute. I have another that saw the same treatment and it is maybe a 2 minute barrel. Now, since these chrome barrels are usually made to military standards (accuracy requirements are looser than for civilian arms), which end of the quality spectrum do you expect a chrome lined barrel will usually fall into? Take Away - You can get an excellent chrome lined barrel, but that you should not expect it... High Power Experience - Barrels made of chrome-moly steel or stainless steel from the same maker will be on par with each other for accuracy when new and early in their lives. If well cared for (One piece coated rods, brass jags, rod guides, copper solvent, JB or Rem Clean, avoid damaging the throat and crown, and maybe Tubb TMS bullets) both will give good life but the stainless ones will age more gracefully and give excellent accuracy for longer. If your cleaning technique is sloppy or you use jointed rods, the stainless barrel will get damaged more easily, but nothing, not even chrome lined, will hold accuracy under that abuse. The stainless barrel will resist a humid environment better. Take Away - Stainless serves us better if we are careful with our barrels. Chrome moly will stand abusive cleaning a little better. Chrome lined will stand abusive cleaning only a little longer than chrome-moly. The folks that build high quality barrels (there are several excellent barrel makers, and they sell their blanks to people noted for doing an excellent job of turning out barrels) stand behind every barrel they make. These folks do not build chrome lined barrels. Your odds of getting excellent barrel are much better with these folks. Overall, I like Benny's answer, but felt that if the reasons were listed, it might help you... Billski

Kudos to LC&SA, Dave Johnson, and the whole staff! An excellent match! Fun stages that got the adrenaline going, chalenging standards, and little controversy! A great prize set and and even the swag kits had good stuff in them. Billski

What gun to start with? Depnds on two things: How much money are you willing to spend, and how much recoil do you like? If you do not like recoil, go with a gas op. If recoil is just not an issue for you, you might like the Benelli. Barely used M1100's and M1187's are very available, there are plenty of parts/accessories to make them into your idea of a practical shotgun and there are good 'smiths that know how to make them slick and fast and reliable, or even go Open. This is the low buck/low recoil route. I have less than $400 in my shotgun this way, and I have a reliable, fast handling, fast loading Standard shotgun. New M1100/1187's and the Browning and Win autos are all good and used. These guns will all do nicely, and there are 'smiths that know how to make them run, or even go Open. This route costs more but is a low recoil route. Then there are the recoil operated guns, primarily Benelli. Standard only. You have to tolerate more recoil - that is how they work. They will misbehave if you add weight or a brake to them. The payoff is they are lighter and faster on the transitions. And there are good 'smiths out there too. So, like many things, you get to pay your money and make your choice. Good luck and welcome to a fun game. Billski

Oh, I am a realist too. I accept that course design is a bit much to believe sometimes. I was just using the soapbox to ask for stages that make sense while providing some rationale about what making sense is. And hoping. Billski

Pat Sweeny's book covers all of the M1100 pretty well. I think that the DMW loading ramp is in there...

I have gotten newer electronic copies since then, along with my printed one. I had an early one and remember finding the emergency reload note - "this should make things interesting". Oh well, that option is now gone - too much bad would come with it I guess. We now have the situation where we have to analyze stages with fire while moving and figure out if we should: Do a Tactical Reload before going into the open, even if the course description does not specify it, or; Accept Slide Lock in the open and finish the targets after doing our Slide Lock Reload from cover. I do not know about the rest of you - I feel that having a CoF that requires me to figure if it is better for my score is forcing us to be gamers. The course design should make it clear if this is a shoot-reload-bolt stage or a shoot-and-scoot stage. One is practicing for having solid cover and the other is practicing for getting from untenable cover/position to better cover. Both are valid for their place. The real world situation is that you do not know how many shots will be required during the movement. Odds are that you will need less than a full mag for the entire encounter. If your current cover or position is vulnerable or otherwise untenable and good cover is available, moving sooner after the inital fire with a partial mag can to be better than moving later with a full one, even if you might run dry enroute to better cover. Course designers - please do not put shooters in the position of practicing poor tactics. If we are allowed to bolt cover without a reload (tactic for moving to better cover), please do not array so many shots for the movement that we could run dry on the way. If you want six shots during movement, please specify the reload before the movement (tactic for starting from solid cover). Billski

Thanks for the comments. I agree that "all reloads begin and end behind cover" seems pretty ironclad... I have had two local (knowledgible) shooters weigh in with me. One is a Master and MD, and indicated that there should not be more than six shots required from the open (revolver friendly), and either provide cover or direction to TR/RWR at a certain spot. The other shooter recieved different direction as to what was cover during the retreat than I did... So, it does seem that the stage was better off not included in the scoring. So for my last issue. There was an exception in the (electronic) rulebook allowing the slide lock reload when in the open, and there was much discussion about it, including Ken Hackathorn criticising it in the TJ. Has the exception gone away again? While I know that I read it in electronic form, when I look for it, I can not find it. Billski

Reload prior to getting there to avoid the reload in the open? I have been through the rulebook (hard copy and on the web) and then I used the search engine and read the threads on this topic, and I am still unsure about how I am supposed to handle this issue. Two scenarios occur to me: First is a case where I have a fully charged gun, I am in the open, moving towards cover, and target exposures cause me to run dry. I believe that I am allowed to do a slide-lock reload as long as I keep going towards cover. Correct? Am I allowed to continue engaging targets (upon completing the reload) as I move? Second case is where I have fired the gun but it still has ammo in it, and now I have to move into the open, heading for cover, and there are enough targets to run me to slide lock on the way. I believe that I am allowed to leave first cover with the partially charged gun, do a slide lock reload as I continue towards cover. Correct? Am I allowed to continue engaging targets as I move? The problem I am having is that with a fully charged gun, I did everything I could to avoid running out of ammo but I stayed someplace that I believe to be untenable while I reloaded (Tactical Tradeoff?). Leaving cover with a partially charged gun when we know how many rounds will be required means that we are planning for the slidelock reload in the open, which is gaming... But so is choosing to do a tactical reload before moving from cover in order to avoid interrupting your retreat... The exact match that got me thinking about this: We started fully downrange with a target in front of us, then four targets each covered by a barrel and exposed as you move uprange to next cover and then more targets to be taken from cover. First target got six shots, so everyone had to do at least one reload before second cover. The start position had cover, so you could do a reload there or, it seems to me, head for next cover and reload as you go. It seems to me that since the shooter knows they need better cover, and they have a loaded gun, they would get the hell out of Dodge and worry about ammo when the slide lock occurs. Which is the way that I shot it. Afterwards there was quite a discussion about gaming the stage, and I believe that the stage was eventually tossed from the match scores. So, what is the way that the rules are being applied to this sort of scenario? Am I supposed to reload early to avoid going to slide lock in the open, or am I allowed to just let the slide lock happen when it does and reload as I go? Your thoughts will be helpful. Billski

I am a believer in run what ya brung until you have shot a match or three. By then, you will have decided a few things about what you really want to play with and what you don't. Your guns are OK for now (and maybe for a long time); You already know that you need a belt and holster and mag carriers for pistol. Sorry, I don't have any advice except that they had better be secure; For your first couple of local matches, the pocket will do for the spare rifle mag - you will end up deciding upon some form of mag holder, but for now, go shoot! You will need some way to have 15 or more shotshells nearby, even if it is a musette bag or a fanny pack. While you are acquiring the belt/holster/mag carrier for your chosen sidearm, I will tell you what you really want to have down. I see it entirely too often at pistol and three-gun matches. The shooter does not know where their guns hit, and on tough targets, they get very frustrated while the gallery watches them throw shot after shot consitently off target. If your gallery is kind, they will start shouting out corrections, but if they are a tough lot, they will just laugh. You have to know where each gun shoots. The side arm should hit point of aim from 15 yards and you need to be confident of that. Your rifle hits POA at 40 yards, and that is good, but know your holdover at 7 yards, 100 yards and longer if your matches have them. If your dot sight is above the carry handle, your zero can change a lot with distance. Know where the shot pattern goes at 15 yards and 40 yards so that it will be centered, or steel targets will mock you. Once you have fired a couple local matches, you will have watched other shooters and gotten the brain engaged so that you will have a better idea about what sorts of mods/upgrades/additions you want to make. If you get serious, you will be making decisions about limited or open guns, maybe about HM class (not me, but maybe you will), types of sights, how to re-load the long guns, etc. The options on many of these things are already well covered on this forum, and the search engine works great. Welcome to the game! Billski

I am trying to figure something else out. I just went to the USPSA website and went to the rules for Rifle, and there is no Limited class in the book... Open? yes. Tactical? Yes (one optic sight, 1"x3" brake, no bipod). Standard? Yes (no optics, 1"x3" brake, no bipod) but no Limited Rifle. Are you guys using USPSA rules or just making them up on your own? Billski

Before stuffing a different reamer into your barrel, I would find out what is keeping rounds from chambering cleanly and then seeing if I can get the guy who chambered the barrel to fix it. My test is that loaded rounds should drop home in the chamber with a click. Magic marker some rounds (Body, neck, shoulder, bullet) and hand feed them into the chamber, then close the bolt and extract the round. Do several and see where they are binding. If you look at SAAMI and NATO chamber drawings, you will find that, with tolerances, they overlap heavily except in the neck and throat, so if you have a binding body or neck or the shoulder interferes (short headspace) you 'smith needs to put a correctly dimensioned reamer into your barrel. Many knowledgible High Power 'smiths will tell you that AR15 pattern rifles should not be chambered with the body, neck, or shoulder/headspace smaller than SAAMI because they just won't be reliable. Yeah, some may work fine, but if they do a bunch of chambers that way, some won't run reliably. Like yours, perhaps. Now throats, that is another story. There are short match throats (benchrest types, Accuracy Speaks' throat for 69's, etc), NATO's long throat, Wylde throat. They vary in the diameter of the cylindrical part, the length of the cylindrical part, and the angle of the ramp. The shorter the bullet jump and the closer to bullet diameter, the greater the potential accuracy. Also, the more possibility for interference with the bullet on chambering, which can elevate pressures. In reality, the Wylde reamer gives great accuracy with many rounds, and usually will shoot Ball (Military loading) ammo well too. NATO reamers have a larger diameter neck and the throat is both bigger diameter and longer in the name of functioning capability under field conditions. If a Wyle chamber gives pressure signs with Ball ammo, and you insist on Ball, then the NATO reamer is your last chance. Even the NATO chamber shoots fairly well, but you will have a better chance of shooting well with others. Now if you are shooting Black Hills or some other commerical match type ammo, the Wylde reamer is probably right. If you are handloading, you can shoot whatever you want, just be prepared to tailor your loads to the throat. The Wylde reamer is becoming the standard in High Power (strong hint). Your match chamber is non-specific. Who's match chamber? Once you know what is getting you, you can get it fixed. Billski

More detail on the topic of exploding bullets - I was not saying that light bullets won't work, I was just cautioning that using the thin jacketed very light bullets might leave the shooter looking at a target with less hits than rounds fired, confusion over where the other bullets went, and then finally a box of bullets that they don't want to use anymore. The 8" twist puts about 2/3 of the centrifugals on the bullet that a 7" twist does (same muzzle velocity), so what works OK in an 8" *might* still cause bullets to disappear from a 7". The bullet puff problem was primarily with 7" twist barrels, 40 and 45 grainers, with thin jackets, and, as was mentioned above, high speeds. I think that they were 0.223" diameter too, which also allows more leakage past the bullet and possibly gas cutting of the jacket, just to help things along. I was not intending to say "don't try 52's and 53's". Anything in 0.224 diameter of 52 grains and above should work fine, particularly if you only load to velocities needed to be comfortably in the match. I have a 52 grain Sierra Matchking load that is an absolute hammer in several rifles including my NRA Match Rifle, 7.7" twist Krieger barrel NRA Service Rifle, and I expect that it will shoot great in my 7" twist Tactical Rifle but have not tried it yet. I agree that more speed really does not buy much in the way of drift or drop, so go for ammo that shoots little groups. Reliability on steel and drift are covered nicely on other threads in this forum. Have fun with the rifle! Now if there were more Tactical Rifle Matches about.... Billski Billski

Sorry, I did not get to the rest of the answer - there is another hot thread started by M4Mike right on this forum with the bullet choices being discussed. Billski

Signal5, Really fast twist barrels (1 in 7" GI barrels qualify) may have trouble with thin jacketed light bullets. There have been plenty of reports of 40-45 grain varmint bullets pushed to max velocities where the bullets will not make the trip to the target. Some folks have reported seeing a gray puff through the telescope or spotting scope during a string and less holes in paper than rounds fired. The internal centrifugal forces when shot from a 7" twist are three times that for the 12" twist (and sometimes lower velocities) that they were designed for, and can cause the bullet to come apart shortly after leaving the bore. 400,000 rpm is a pretty spectacular number... Everything else is used by High Power shooters with fast twists - the 1/7" twist is needed by folks shooting 90 grain bullets for 600 through 1000 yards. The same people use the same barrels with 52-69 grain match bullets on reduced courses (target sizes are reduced to simulate 200/300/600 yards on 100 and 200 yard ranges). Stick with 55 grain and up bullets, and you should be fine. After that, you get to choose between wind bucking ability, drop, accuracy, and cost, and then test ammo to see what it does in your rifle. So much shooting, so little time. Billski