wsimpso1

I too have had this issue (cateract surgery at 44), and I for the same glasses trick that you did. It makes it tough to see targets set against similar backgrounds at 200 yards and up, so some intermediate script might be better. I gave up and went Tactical Class with a Simmons ProDiamond 1.5-5x 20mm. I shot High Power in the early 80's with a bolt gun and had the Merit aperature in it. It was trouble free, and allowed me to adjust quickly on the line. I do not think that I would use it on the M16A2 sight - it will be too far aft and most of us will find that it eats eyeglass lenses. Another option is a diopter rear sight from Bob Jones (www.bobjonessights.com). He will set you up with as little or as much diopter as you find necessary and several aperatures too. The aperatures swap out easily, but you could only do that in between stages. Now, why are you talking about seeing bullet holes? Call your shots and fire makeups when your calls indicate a need for them. Looking to see the bullet holes is waiting when you should already know and be shooting the next shot. I know, it is nice to have a solid confirmation... The fast way is to know where it went and already be on to the next shot, whether it be the next target or the makeup shot. That way you also focus on the next shot, not the last one, which you can not change anyway... Billski

Carbon and ash build up has three places, the bolt, the carrier cavity, and the carrier key. In the key, they can restrict flow which can supposedly be the source of short recoil, but I have never seen it. In the carrier and on the bolt, it can cause the the bolt to have trouble closing. So clean it once in a while or accept malfunctions. Bolt - You do not need to get it spotless, just do not let the ash layer get built up. You want the manganese phosphate layer to stay put and oiled, so go easy. No sand paper or emery cloth. I have always liked the scrap brass case as a scraper but go easy with it. The wire wheel can easily remove the phosphate layer, so I would stay away from that; Carrier Cavity - The cavity also builds up ash. I just use the cleaning tool that Bushmaster carries. Brownell's has one too, but it is not as nice. Each time I clean the bolt, I also slide the tool in for a twist or two. Works great, and is easy. Carrier Key - The GI manuals just suggest pipe cleaners with solvent. Now for the other side of the topic. No less a luminary than Derrick Martin has done a torture test where he declined to clean a rifle for a season. It perked right along through the many practice sessions and local matches, and then with Perry coming up, he decided to go for it, and it just kept right on shooting. Excellent scores too. Now remember, he is a High Power shooter and master 'smith. You can bet that the rifle was friggen' perfect before he started this. And it was a 20" rifle shooting heavy bullets with slow powders, so the gas impulse is large. You folks shooting 16" rifles with shorty gas systems should know that they are more persnickety about ammo and their gas systems. Choose your method based upon how risk averse you are. Billski

I got tired of reading the thread about half way down, so my apologies if I say something that has already been beat to death... First, credentials. Two mechanical engineering degrees and five years as an R&D engineer at Remington Arms in the early 1980's. Why didn't I stay on? This northerner was not going to be happy in Little Rock Arkansas... So, I can understand Wap wap's commentary. Anyway, what stopped me on this thread is that wap wap is talking about the 19 grains of powder at 1200 ft/sec... The shot and wad may be moving at 1200 ft/sec when it leaves the bore, and the momentum from it is transferred to the gun, and the 19 grains of powder gases in the barrel are only moving as fast as the shot and wad WHILE IT IS STILL SEALED IN THE BORE. What Wap wap is saying is that 19 (powder) is pretty small compared to 456 (shot and wad), but that tells only part of the story. Once the wad clears the brake ports, (please, it is a "Brake", not a "Break") the gases leaving the barrel accelerate to much higher speeds before being redirected aft. If they did not do this, the gun would hardly puff as the ejecta comes clear. Even .22 LR match ammo has a report, so it apparently has energy left when the bullet uncorks the barrel. Now, gun gas velocity off of the muzzle (or anywhere else) is going to be pretty close to the speed of sound in the gas. The local speed of sound in gas is a function of the local gas temperature. And the pressure and temperature are linearly related once you get past the first few inches of barrel. Once you are 6 inches down bore, pressure is past peak, the burning is pretty well done, and most of what is happening is expansion. Volume is increasing, and pressure and temperature are dropping. Free gas velocities from nitrocellulose gun barrels can be anywhere from 2000 to 6000 ft/sec depending upon gas pressure (actually temperature) at the place where the gas is released. In fact, sealed gas velocities must go higher than this - if the gases could not go faster than 1200 ft/s, how would they push a rifle bullet to 3100 ft/s? Magnum rifle gas velocities are highest, pipsqueak loads are lowest, and shotguns with mid-barrel ports are somewhere in the middle, because the pressures are still pretty high where they tap off the gas. So, a mid barrel port will have a several times the gas velocities at the brake, and thus several times the energy that Wap wap implies. Now for the rest of the story... While the contribution is bigger than Wap wap implies, it is still not so big as to completely nullify the impulse from accelerating the shot and wad to 1200 ft/sec. But, human beings being the clever types that we are, we try to adjust how we vent off the gas to not only get the most recoil nullification, but we also vent the gas in the direction to take off the part of the recoil that bothers us the most. Or at least we try to. The early ports did not direct gases backward, and the slots were thin things, not allowing the gasses to accelerate to full speed before being redirected. More modern brakes are designed to allow the gasses to do more work for us... Once we get by the mechanics, which do matter, we can cover the last part - physiology. We humans are non-linear sensors. Small forces are hard to sense, but as the load goes up, we feel it in ever increasing chunks. So if you start with something that is just uncomfortable, and soften it up some, it can almost become a non-issue, not because it is zero, but because it is below our recoil threshold. So, a shotgun brake can not suck off all of the recoil. But it can suck off some, and a lot more than Wap wap's math implies. And some recoil reduction may be enough to make you think that it is gone. So, yeah, brakes can work wonders for the recoil wimps (I admit that my recoil threshold is low) but they do not help as much for those who have a higher recoil threshold. Billski

Glad to hear that that substituting a lighter bullet works well in the M1A. Something to file away for later. Billski

JLJ, I checked my gun, and I get a little more than 3/8" of movement before the action unlocks... and it works fine. Billski

I still use the high power approach. First off, the body of the chamber (not shoulder or neck) has been polished with 220 grit wet-or-dry, then Flitz. That makes the chamber pretty slick to begin with. Then after every 200 rounds or so, I clean the chamber (bore too). 38 cal brush on a short piece of GI rod, wrapped with a big patch and solvent. I use Kroil instead of GI solvent, then a dry patch, and then mop and wipe the locking recesses. I check the chamber with a light and chamber mirror once in a while as a quality control check, and it always seems to work fine. Billski

Given Benny's stated preference for the Simmons 1.5-5x 20mm, I would say you missed one in your list. That scope rocks for tactical rifle... Billski

If your easy loader is visibly flapping, you have me wondering if you got the leaf spring back in... There is a little leaf spring that should be holding the easy loader down away from the shell carrier, and it should have been captured by the pin that holds the shell carrier and easy loader to the trigger housing... The easy loaders are made with a tab that engages the carrier latch. If it is set to release immediately or with very little travel, your adjustment (which is discussed in the directions I got with mine) is to gently file a little metal from the easy loader tab. If I remember correctly, the directions also tell you how much free travel it should have and how to make the adjustment. Yeah, I know, I am going to be thrown out of The Guy Club for doing things like reading the instructions, asking for directions, and having tools that just plain work... I would rather my tools work. We are here for more help if you need it. Good Luck. Billski

It sounds like your easy loader is not done being installed yet. There should be some travel on the loader before it unlatches the action, and it sounds like you either do not have that travel or something is bound, keeping the carrier latch from working. The directions I got with mine discuss this and tell how to get things set up correctly. The loader and carrier should move freely relative to each other, with only the spring tension keeping them apart. If they bind, you have to make a touch more clearance. If the leaf spring is not in place and captured by the carrier pin, it needs to be. The easy loader has a tab that is supposed to not touch the carrier latch until the easyloader has moved a small amount. Billski

My recommendation is to add a long magazine to an existing M870 and see if you like the game. Buy Pat Sweeney's book and do whatever suits you. The mag tube will transfer to the M1100, and what you learn with the M870 will apply to the M1100 too. My way into the game ( I believe in this route) was a $200 used M1100 deer gun. It already had rifle sights, so I added a DMW Easy Loader and a long magazine, and I was in business. Over the winter, I added a 3" shell lifter (it allows the gun to close when ammo is in the magazine and you hand cycle it), reciever sight and fiber optic front sight. The M1100 route is also nice if you are a recoil wimp, like myself. The hot ticket in the game seems to be Benelli, but the base gun costs four times what a used but serviceable M1100 does. The advantages cited for the Benelli are that it is lighter and thus transitions from target to target faster, and it cycles faster. Personally, recoil recovery and sight acquisition sets my transition times, and the gun is always closed much sooner than I can use it, so the advantages are moot for me. The disadvantage of the Benelli is that it kicks harder than the M1100. Now, if you are impervious to recoil and you can use the quicker swing from target to target, and don't mind the extra dollars, go for the Benelli. Billski

Hmmm, Neil Beverly's comment made me go back into the rules and look around. 5.2.1.1, 5.2.1.2, and 5.2.1.3 all indicate "that the action must remain open or be closed on a chamber flag". Using English the way I was taught it, this means that we can leave the bolt open (no chamber flag is indicated in this phrase), but if we close the bolt, it must be closed on a chamber flag (this phrase uses both chamber flag and closed bolt). Then, along comes 5.2.1.4, which states that the chamber flag is required all of the time... Hmm, so it seems that the open action clauses in 5.1.1.1-3 are in conflict with 5.2.1.4. We can not really have it both ways... I would respectfully submit that we should either omit 5.2.1.4 OR omit the open action clauses in 5.2.1.1-3. As long as we are discussing the wording of these rules, I would respectfully submit that many of the chamber flag devices in existence block the action more or less open, and thus the bolt can not be "closed" upon them. Additionally, many manually operated rifles and shotguns will not remain closed when the muzzle is elevated to verticle. They otherwise perform the actions we want of them, making it obvious to the observer that the gun is incapable of firing. The wording could be changed to indicate that the chamber flag be applied with the action closed as much as is applicable. Has there been a ruling to help us know exactly what we should be doing here? Given the tiny amount of attention this has recieved compared to other rules issues, perhaps I am making a tempest in a teapot. Billski

Oh, someone mentioned the shells sliding forward in the mag tube under recoil... The intercepter latch drops down forward (towards muzzle) of the rim of the round to be fed. It does this when the hammer falls, so this occurs ahead of recoil. When it does this, the intercepter latch should also prevent the rim of the rearmost round in the magazine from sliding forward past the latch. Something to know about the M1100. It locks open on every shot. As it locks open, the shell latch is opened and held open as long as the action is open. Eventually, the magazine spring shoves the stack of rounds backward, and the rearmost round finds its way back where it trips the shell lifter, unlocks the action, and then the gun closes. You only get one round because the intercepter latch catches the rest of the stack. Now, if the rearmost shell does slide forward past the intercepter latch, the gun is unlikely to feed any shells onto the shell lifter. Billski

Yes, the lifter is set too sensitive. Pat Sweeney (a moderator of this forum) has written a book on Gunsmithing Shotguns, and he goes into some detail on tuning the M1100 for practical shooting. Get it from Borders online or maybe in your local gun shop or bookstore. Pat talks about how to install and tune the DMW loader and the 3" shell lifter, and then how to tune for the malfunctions. Good book, good illustrations, good advice. It works. I know, my M1100 is set up his way. If you are not mechanically inclined, find a 'smith who understands this stuff. Billski

Some History on Chamber Flags and then a return to the topic. I shot NRA High Power before chamber flags, and found our ranges to be quite safe. After all, you load and unload BOTH under line commands AND under the supervision of another shooter. And the rifles were M1's, M14's, and some derivative of the M98/M1903. All open topped rifles that could easily be seen to be empty and open. AR15's were rare. And the safety record was exemplary. 1873 was the start year for the game, and as it was explained to me during my introduction to the sport, "we have not shot anyone yet, we don't want to start today". Now, High Power is typically contested from firing lines on big ranges that have grass and little else. One line of shooters is on the Firing Line, the others wait at the Ready Line. Rifles are lying on shooting mats, shooting stools, and the ground. People pick up a rifle from the stool and set it on the mat or vice versa. It is impossible to walk about behind the Firing Line and not go in front of resting muzzles. And everyone becomes quite comfortable with it. Even the press do it. I returned to High Power more recently. The AR15 is dominant, scoped rifles entered the game, and there are bolt guns that have small ejection ports. I initially thought the flags to be excessive. Then I realized that I was comfortable walking around a sea of shooting kits with rifles pointing out of them exactly because I used to be able to glance and see that each rifle was indeed empty. In the meanwhile, it became difficult to know that a rifle had been rendered safe unless a flag could be seen sticking out of a rifle. So flags came about because they solved a problem for High Power. Does that make it applicable to USPSA? We have a game that allows any of a huge variety of rifles and shotguns. We handle them en masse to go from car to range to range to car, and we have to know that they are safe. And we have to move them individually to the line and back. And we have to know that each particular gun is not fireable until the RO wants it to be. Now for the sticky part. Some of us advocate a method where we strictly operate with one layer of safety, and tolerate nothing less than perfect compliance. Others advocate having a couple layers so that when the inevitable human failure occurs, another layer will still prevent a terrible accident. Somehow the shooting sports have gone to the latter, and I am sure that some of us think a terrible mistake has been made, but that is the approach that the sport has taken - redundency AND vigilence. So, how do we maintain the level of safing that we are used to with pistols while we move around with our long guns? Beyond being safe, how do we maintain the impression of being safe too? Yes, this appears to be important too. It is apparent that some of us are acutely uncomfortable with even seeing the muzzle end of the gun when someone else is touching it. Folks with that phobia will be uncomfortable indeed at a High Power match. Yet the practices on High Power ranges have been proven to be very safe by over 130 years of use. That bears some attention. Now, as I read the IPSC and USPSA rule 5.2, we can slip the guns in a case, or we can sling it, carry or shoulder it, but make sure that the muzzle is either up or down and either the bolt is back or that it has a chamber flag inserted. So the simple rules are either case it or no sweeping others with the muzzle, no ammo, and display that the rifle is unable to fire. Is anyone of these rules enough by itself? Not in my book. Empty guns AND good gun handling make it safe. Once loaded, only good gun handling works, and we back that up with RO's in our sport just to make sure. Now, use of the slip has always confused me. With a long gun in a slip or other case, we know NOTHING about the ammo state. The gun could be loaded, safety off, and prone to fire if dropped or bumped, but we know nothing about this. We trust that the gun is empty. And many of us blissfully ignore a wrapped up firearm... scary thought, eh? By all means continue with the conversation. Thanks for the inputs... Billski

I was at a three gun match and found myself with a confusing situation. I thought that I was following the rules. So how do you folks interpret 5.2 in both the rifle and shotgun rules? I have read it, and thought that having a long gun with the bolt closed on a chamber flag and either having slung the gun or carrying the gun vertical (muzzle up or down) should more than satisfy any RO or other observer that the gun is both visibly empty and visibly not pointed at anyone. Sunday, I was on deck while the stage was reset. I had carried my chamber flagged rifle out to the area for LAMR, with the muzzle vertically up, and when I got there, I placed the butt on my left foot while maintaining the muzzle vertically. After this I was threatened with DQ by the RO for "handling a weapon" with people downrange. It seems that he intended that rifles and shotguns would remain in the rack until he called for each shooter to retrieve and show for LAMR. Then after the empty and show clear drill, I inserted the chamber flag and when I went to close the bolt on it to hold it in place, he insisted upon my leaving the bolt open, which means that the flag falls out, defeating its purpose. He did this for both rifle and shotgun, insisting that they remain locked open... I shall not get into our banter, but I was attempting to find rhyme or reason behind his interpretation so that I can comply. Well meaning questions only seemed to antagonize him... Did I screw this up and break the rules, or are some RO's still having a hard time adjusting to the new long gun rules? Billski

This used to be called "mexican match" when the M-14 was king in NRA High Power and shooters had access to LC Match ammo with 173 grain bullets. They would pull and replace with 168 Sierra Match Kings, and it worked pretty well. The beauty is that it is easy and quick, and if your bullet weights are the same or somewhat lighter, it can work nicely. The down side is that you have just made a handload with what is essentially a random powder type and charge weight. And going from 147's to 125's or 110's can result in a low pressures, low velocities, and a misbehaving gas op rifle... To make many gas guns work with 125's or 110's, you will probably need to drive the bullet pretty fast, which won't happen with substituting a 110. If you never shoot over 100 yards, on USPSA targets and fullsize poppers and plates, and it is reliable in your rifle, it is probably OK. If you shoot longer yardage with minipoppers and small plates, you will want something that shoots pretty well and gives you repeatable drop with distance and drift with wind. So, if I had quantities of Gi ammo and had to deal with tough targets, I would break seals, pull bullets, dump powder, recharge with a known powder/charge/bullet combination. Billski

I saw a lot of mention of ball powders and Varget, but after trying to get loads to work with both in three different AR15's, I have given up on them. Ball powders are terrible dirty and Varget gave me a lot of velocity variation in 69's, 77's and 80's (I used to be an avid High Power shooter). In all fairness, there are folks who swear by Varget lit off by CCI bench rest or military type primers. I believe that maybe they go together, but with Fed, Win, and Rem primers, Varget was not up to my needs. Why not CCI? Every misfire that I have ever had has been with CCI primers, so I just won't do that anymore. I know, it flies in the face of the experience of others, but I trust my own experience and take my own counsel... For 223 Rem, I settled on RL15 for most everything, H4895 when I feel a need for a faster powder. If you have a brake on the muzzle, RL15 works it better. And in both my Harrels measure and my Hornady Progressive, RL15 meters like ball powder. Try it out! Billski

Just my two cents... Run what ya got and see if you have fun. Scratch that - You will have fun! See what other folks are shooting, then, while you warm up to the game you can start planning your upgrades. You can go from basic to wild race guns, so see what you want to do before spending. I got into USPSA and IDPA last year, and decided to play until I really felt like spending money. For pistol, either the .45 or the Browning will do fine. Just have enough mags and carriers. For rifle, use your AR15. I would add a brake and a single mag pouch for a speedy reload. Usually we use 30 round mags, but the 20's can come in handy when a stage requires prone. For shotgun, use your Benelli. Add a long mag tube if you want. Limited guns can have no more than nine rounds and no brake. Benelli's are the hot ticket in Limited right now. If you are not in Open, you will want a couple of ammo carriers for the belt and maybe a sidesaddle on the reciever. Most of the time in this game is spent loading... I am shooting with rather well used and modified .45, what used to be my spare NRA High Power Service Rifle (pulled the weights and added a brake), and an 1100 deer gun, with a long mag tube, reciever sight, and slicked up the loading areas. Now go have fun! Billski

pdg45acp, My hat is off to you, shooting the M-1 (Damned Fine Rifle). I am such a recoil wimp, that mine (I have three in the safe) have not been fired in years. I shot NRA High Power for several years (early 1980's) with the M-1, and gave speed displays when I shot one on the West Point pop up range too. To me, the M-1 en-bloc clip would only work well when shoved down from above, thumb straight with the pad and first joint on the top round to keep it from being caught, and the fingers straight and alongside the stock and operating rod. When the bold unlocks and starts forward, the knife edge of the hand can restrain the op rod a moment and rotating the hand to release the rod automatically gets the thumb out of the way. We were always fastest and most reliable to drop the butt out of the shoulder. While standing or moving, the hip supports the butt, and in prone, you just move it to the ground. In both cases, it supports the rifle while you make the clip insertion in one smooth clean shove. I don't think that I could do that with the rifle in my shoulder... How are you loading with the rifle in the shoulder? For prone, I suppose that you could leave the butt in your shoulder, place the clip to the back of the reciever and then pull it down with the finger tips on the top round, palm close to or touching the right side of the rifle. If you kept the hand against the stock, the op rod can not catch the fingers until you remove the hand. Make sure that thumb stays out of the way. While en-bloc clips will work with the top round on either right or left, you will want to standardize. The arsenals placed the first round on the right, and for a shove from the top, right side for the top one also seemed to be best. For fingers curled over the top, perhaps having the top round be on the left would be better. I would like to see some prgoress reports on shooting this fine rifle. Billski

There is something about the way that the AR fits on people - people want to cant it. In NRA High Power, many of the service rifle shooters and the space gun folks shoot with cant, with pistol grip away from the body and the sights moved closer. And it costs less than two minutes, and usually less than one minute in zero shift. A rifleman no less accomplished than David Tubb shoots his bolt guns that way. Some shooters do not cant the rifle, but instead end up with the butt plate shoved to right (right handers) and the rest of the rifle to the left. There must be a lesson in that somewhere... If it drags the sights in front of your eye and supports the gun, it has to be an improvement, right? You do have to know your hold over for canted offhand if you need a precisely placed shot. We do have match designers that will challenge your knowledge of your zero more than that with things like flat slots to force you to roll the gun 90 degrees. Gotta know your drop and windage there. Cant it and get a good zero from it. People who ask more of their positions than we do like it just fine. Billski

And I am looking forward to those opinions... Billski (information sponge)

3 Gun Newbie Looking for Voice of Experience I am building a flat top upper for our game with a 1.5-5 x20 Simmons Prodiamond on top, and have a JP short range sight on the way too. I thought that I knew how I wanted to mount the SRTS, and then, I scanned past something (have not been able to search it up here) about negotiating houses by placing the butt off of the shoulder... I know of one guy who shoots the NRA Service Rifle with the butt on top of his shoulder. Yeah it looks odd, but he is a High Master, Distinguished Rifleman, Presidents 100, etc. You don't argue with success like that, you try to learn from it. Hmm, let me describe what I have in mind and you guys tell me if I got it right. This is all from the point of view of a right hander, strong side shoulder and trigger: buttstock left side is on outside of right shoulder, rifle rotated 30-45 degrees anti-clockwise, face on back edge of flat top reciever looking down SRTS on the handgaurd. Do I have this right, or is it completely different? Second, what angles are you guys using for your short range sights, whether iron or glass? 1 o'clock is 30 degrees and 1:30 is 45 degrees, and I suppose that I could drill and tap holes at both and experiment. It seems like 1 o'clock is almost too small. Also, with narrow horizontal slots for ports and rifles being forced sideways, I wonder if putting the SRTS at 3 o'clock would not be a better idea instead of having to know your holdovers for a rotated rifle? Billski

Ian, Search back through the threads on this forum - there are several that cover a lot, of ground and have pictures. If you like what you see, append a one-line reply (thanking us for the helpful info). This refreshes the helpful note and drags it to the top so the next guy can find it easier... I checked, and here are the two threads that I was thinking of. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19331 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=15780&hl=m1100 Then there is Pat Sweeney's book, which is terrific to have if you are playing with your shotguns, and then will get other folks attention and end up playing with their shotguns... Billski

Eric, your comment nearly made me spew beer... very funny. Thanks for the feedback Maybe I should buy two. Billski

Hi Folks, Are the Colt HBAR barrels adequate for Tactical Class Rifle? There seem to be quite a few of them available, and I wondered if I should bother with one. All of my three-gun shooting has been at 100 m and less, but now there are other shoots - Plates at 200m and 300m require a bit in terms of accuracy. Yeah, the irons can (and do) produce little groups with a six minute black that we have in NRA High Power, but plates and USPSA paper do tend to disappear into the background when the glasses are set up to give focus on the front sight. I looked, and did searches because I figure that this question has to have been asked before, and could find nothing... I appreciate the help. How good are the Colt barrels? Billski (a converted High Power shooter)