smokshwn

Weight? If it was in .308 wouldn't he be in HE-MAN division

What I was talking about with respect to two and three above is IDPA emphasizes that the normal guy can go buy a minimum amount of simple, inexpensive equipment and participate without breaking his shooting budget. I can think of at least three or four guys in my club who have recently (within 6 mos) started shooting, who will need to purchase replacement equipment. With their limited budget and not having fully developed a dedication to IDPA, this is a very big deal breaker. Especially, in this area at least, when you consider that they can simply change the weekend they are shooting, drive to the same club, and be welcomed with open arms in USPSA production. No eq. replacement and shooting with the same core group of guys, just giving their money to different org. To most shooters who are here in this forum, a little eq. exchange is not the biggest deal from a financial standpoint. Compared to ammo budget, reloading setup, limited and open gun costs, we really can't argue that $50-$100 will keep us from shooting. But to the more occasional/new shooter I think this decision will have a bigger negative effect. I gues we'll see.

Nothing at all wrong with shooting G20 10mm. Three guys I shoot it. One is LEO so it is his duty gun/rd, the other just loves the ten, and the third shoots the G20 with a 40 conversion barrel in it. Personally I love the feel of the full size glocks but you do generally need a full size pair of meathooks to get in that category. To be totally honest most people don't shoot the gun and full house ammo because the recoil puts you at a competitive disadvantage. There is a few cost factors such as brass costs and especially if you are shooting faactory ammo, but what the hell if that doesn't bother you I say have at it. Take care, Craig

Finally a review on the Tubb. Thanx Tom. Now, since that AICS is such a clunker, I can give you a hand in getting rid of it

George Exactly in a world of more and more do everything products here we are tryin our damndest to spend the most money for the most narrow of uses Chris, That TRG is a georgeos gun I'm jealous. Keep us posted. Bronco, I finally ran onto a post yday about the Tikkas and something to add is this gentleman has two. His suggestion was that a significantly lower price he got the same performance from Tikka's Varmint model. Good to know if one is on a budget. By the way I was going to go ahead and get the $1000.00 version of the Horus but I went shooting yday with a buddy's buddy who happens to have a USO SN3. I guess I will be saving a few more schekels before my HV purchase.

Ted #4 is fixed and posted tell me what you think. I understand about personal requests fo holstermakers, home mods etc. and the inevitable creep by holster makers. My opposition is to the fact that for some reason IDPA HQ cannot seem to relinquish control on how to make/do/create something. For instance give me a problem(gun carrying device) Give me a set of rules (the ones I posted) Let me figure out how to build,buy,or modify a holster that performs and complies. Instead of the IDPA allowing multiple solutions that competitors could use to accomadate their body type, comfort, use preferences, IDPA mandates that we only have one road to follow. Not to mention I would argue that most shooters don't have the requisite box of holsters. I think that is reserved for a smaller more active population of us idiots who shoot way too much but still not enough Craig

Duane, Are you even giving any thought to what you are saying? Yes withing my shooting budget $120 for a comp tac setup doesn't compare to my travel, ammo, or gun layouts however. So my objection lies more in the principle of having perfectly serviceable eq. rendered obsolete only to replace with something that will be at risk of dictated obsolescence. You seem to be forgetting at who IDPA is aimed at within the original context. I do a lot of recruiting for my club and if you would could you kindly explain to me what I should tell a guy with 3 kids who has a very limited budget what he should do about buying new holsters. Considering that one of the things I sold him on was the ability to shoot this sport without the need to be buying specialized eq. all the time. This rule is a major shot in the foot of IDPA in order to mandate their own idea of tactical. Once again here's simple and effective: 1. Holster must cover trigger and provide adequate retention for safety 2. Holster cannot be worn with a forward cant. 3. Holster must cover up to 1/4" below chamber opening in slide. 4. When holstered the gun grip will be no more than .5" away from the closest point on the shooter's body 5. Holster must not interfere with a safe draw. 5. Holster and gun must be completely concealed by chosen cover garment. This list took 30 seconds to come up with. It affects no currently approved holsters and allows competitors the ability to choose a platform that works witht their body type. Why does IDPA feel the need to do more than this? Kill the gamers? Get back at the guys actually trying to win? what? When there are simple solutions to problems it makes one question the motives of those who choose the complex route. Craig

I don't think anybody is freaking out. The rule is on its way. More than one person has first hand knowledge of holster makers looking at making changes etc. Is it not possible to have a discusion of the possible ramifications ? If you want to believe that the upcoming holster rule will not effect anything fine. The question remains, how do people feel about the possibility that they will have to replace expensive equipment in order to stay compliant with IDPA? Craig

I will apologize up front for posting the following details anonymously but I feel it wouldn't be fair to post someones name in a public forum. I am posting it for the purposes of our discussion. I will grant that this conversation is technically hearsay so feel free to torch me up a little if you feel the need. So in a conversation tonight with a holstermaker who's main focus is IDPA rigs, he stated that the holster rumors are true. The no light in the belt channel will be the standard. He retooled 2 of his offerings and is considering upgrading all of his holsters that customers have bought at his own expense. In our conversation he also spoke of a very big name sponsored shooter who is practicing with an IWB rig because of the scrutiny his gear received at this years nationals. I posted this because I feel that IF the holster rules due in fact come to pass then this is a major step in the wrong direction for IDPA. Not from the standpoint of the actual rule persay but in the effect that it will have. IDPA's stated draw was a shooting sport without equipment races and a forum for regular folks to compete on a budget. Replacing equipment just cost workaday Joe match fees for a couple of months. In my personal situation I am out 2 $100 comp tac rigs, 3 or four UM holsters and pouches that I use for loaners, not too mention the cost of replacements. I just don't see how IDPA can avoid turning away existing members over this. How bout some thoughts

kevin, I would be very interested in seeing the scheuman info you're talking about. Right now I am getting more involved in precision rifle. In lurking in a lot of their forums for the last little while I have never heard of something like that. Craig

Rhino, my bad I thought you already had one. George, I would love to hear about the Tubb in an MOR environment as well. I'm sure the action and such would be fine, but to my eye the buttstock at best looks like it would be snagging on gear and at worst looks a little vulnerable to getting knocked out of adjustment or breakage. Chris, I agree with you on the wonder 6mm's. They are ballistically superior to the .308 but rebarreling every 1500 rds seems like a pain. Do you know of anyone running the Sako's or Tikka's it seems they are few and far between. My ffl is Blaser dealer so of course when I bought my Remington he was giving me the line about Blaser lr92 and Sig 3000, so I told him to get one in and let me shoot it for 6 mos and I would let him know what I thought. I think he's still on the floor laughing.

One other factor that could come into play with the length issue is the amount of time the bullet has to be "spun up" and stabilized by the rifling. I'm guessing that depending on the structure of the bullet that the edge here would go to the longer barrel.

Sestock, I think we are all just in the waiting period for the aftermarket gadgets for the SX2. They are in the pipeline. As for the bolt handle. Make a rough drawing of what you want. Pull yours off, stop by your friendly local machinists (may take a few stops and be a little on the spendy side) and yippee. New bolt handle. Craig

I'm gathering that the box mags are about the only way to go and it is sounding like AI is pretty much the only game as far as a high lever of reliability, decent availability of goodies (although spendy). The AICS seems like the most viable in that you get a all of bells and whistles of the exotic euro stuff but with a base platform that most any 'smith is capable of working on. (for everybody following this thread, I think I'm winning the argument, "Hello, this Alice at Tacpro shooting center, may I help you?" ) I have heard that HS Precisions mags are reliable but difficult to change due to the o-ring configuration??? anybody else know of anything? It's hard to get an accurate appraisal of the Sig, Tikka, or Sako stuff because so few people are using them, not to mention I would think extra mags, scope mounts, blah blah blah are a little harder to find and probably $$$$$ when you do. Rhino, I haven't been able to find anyone shooting the CZ's but there are a couple of nice looking setups on Gunbroker. Are you happy with yours? I have heard of a couple of local LEO guys using the FN SPR setup and I am waiting for them to get back to me. This gun sounds promising, mags work well, and FN puts a lifetime guarantee on it to include the barrel. So when you shoot out the barrel, send it in and voila! new barrel. I don't know if it is only for agencies or if they would do that on a private customer gun as well.

Well the research has been done. I just don't see a better option than the HV. I was hoping I could find an optik that would perform in a similar way (and also be plentiful in the classifieds on the sniper sites) but alas it is looking as not so. Now the next big question, are box mags absolutely necessary and if so in what round counts? I'm trying to justify that AICS. Good thing I'm only trying to convince myself as I usually win Take care, Craig

My gear for limited, open, and 3gun is pretty well sorted out and its winter time in Utah. So I am looking forward to the next project of putting together gear for Manually Operated Rifle. I think I have the gun figured out but optics are another story. I know next to nothing when it comes to using your scope for ranging, lead, etc. My history has been put the crosshairs on the shoulder and squeeze. So here are a couple of questions: 1) I know optical quality plays a role, but assuming a quality manufacturer, how much optical power is ideal? 3.5X10, 4.5X14, 5.5X15, 6.5X20. 2) Rings and bases: I know the Badger Ordnance and similar stuff is well regarded in the sniper community, but is there some middle ground which is acceptable for MOR? 3) Reticles: Horus Vision or Mil Dots? Illuminated or not? I can see how useful the Horus vision system is but that scope seems awful busy. Would it be better bite the bullet and learn to use it or is it helpful to develop skills with mil dots and then move forward to the HV system? 4) The 1 million dollar question: Given a $1000-$1200 budget for glass, rings, and bases, what's your pick? Yeehaw bring it on. Thanx, Craig

The 35 is as shred said a longslide 22. I find that I like the extra sight radius. It comes with the 3.5 lb connector and an extended mag release. IMHO there are only a few things that need accessorizing. In order of necessity/function 1. Sights: The stock sights suck suck suck. Heinie rears with a Fiber optic front are my favorite($60-70). Heinie's and Dawson's probably make up 75% of the aftermarket sights on glocks. A lot of guys also like the buried bomars. 2. Guiderod and springs: The stock rod and spring will work fine for major. If you want to do any load experimentation or shoot at minor for other sports it sure is nice to tailor the gun's movement with the springs. I use a full length steel guide rod with a 15lb spring for major and a 13 lb spring for minor. Stock is 17lbs. Cost ($8 for springs $18 for the GR) 3. Trigger: You can do everything from a .25 cent polishing of all the internals to tweaking and tuning springs to a full blown $200 Vanek. Depends on what you feel you like/need. I like mine in the .25 cent flavor. 4. Magwell: Although it isn't absolutely necessary for reloads I love the way it locks my hand onto my grip. (from JP $60) 5. Barrel: IMO the only reason for barrel replacement would be to constantly shoot lead. Other than that the stock barrel is just fine accuracy wise. BTW not that it is recommended, but several people shoot lead in their stock barrels, they just keep them squeaky clean of any lead buildup. YMMV. Good luck, Craig PS let me know if you have any more questions.

Lynn, Its when you go ass over tea kettle so bad that your gear is strewn about you like a yard sale. Craig

Well geez Ted, they did come out of BW mouth didn't they. That seems to be good enough for the rules regarding airgunning etc.

thanx Mark

Mayo, I could give a *&^% less about what a vendor has to do to make his holsters legal. My concern is buying new gear simply at the BOD's whim. The no light standard is crap. What is so hard about a much simpler rule. 1. Holster must cover trigger and provide adequate retention for safety 2. Holster cannot be worn with a forward cant. 3. Holster must cover up to 1/4" below chamber opening in slide. 4. Holster must be as close to the body as possible without interfering with a safe draw. 5. Holster and gun must be completely concealed by chosen cover garment. This light no, light, cant, no cant, becomes impossible to interpret due to the changes in body types.

not a single bit of movement on my heinies in about 5k rds maybe you picked up a skeewampus set of sights

+1 for Comp tac. You could probably argue that Bladetech, Comp-Tac, KY-tac are all pretty close in performance, but there is now comparison when you take into account customer service. No 2wk-4mo waits ala Kytac, no charge your credit card ship 6wks later crap, just straight up get more than you pay for product and service. Greg is good guy.

Yankee Hill Machine and ARMS both make scout rails as well. You can also take a look at the armalite forward scope mount.

EricW You're right, it's just weight, and the effectiveness may not be 25% more effective. However when you are trapshooting and you have 1200 targets over 4 days, 5% more effective looks pretty good. True their is probably an element of marketing there. In the begining someone tried mercury and it sold because it had a higher cool factor than lead, but more importantly you get a product that mounts/unmounts, can tailor balance, fits the intended application with little or no gunsmithing, is hidden or looks nice, etc. etc. The best recoil reduction device is actually a custom fit stock by someone who knows what they are doing. There are very few of those guys in the world. This means the cost is out of reach for most shooters. Some of the mechanical (pneumatic, spring operated etc.) work bette than the mercury but again they can be more expensive. So it leads us back to 100 bones for a mecury tube being fairly attractive to folks compared to the alternatives. It's the same reason guys use tungsten guiderods, magwells, brass basepads, recoilmasters etc. Why don't people just epoxy lead on there dustcover, or carry around a box of stick on tire weights, helluva lot cheaper than a Tungsten magwell. Just as a side note, since beginning shooting action shotgun I have heard ten times the amount of complaints about recoil than when I was trapshooting. Me thinks I need to set down and make a doodad for the benelli guys.