tbarker13

Not a problem at our clubs, since 1 or 2 guys always pick up brass during the reset and give it back to the shooter. When we tear down there is pretty much no brass at all on the ground. Our matches seem to be totally different at all of our local clubs. The only folks really looking for brass during the match are the super guys and maybe some 45 shooters. Everybody else sort of just want to stay focused on keeping the match going. picking up brass is part of keeping the match going. It gets done before the RO is finished scoring the stage. Maybe it's easier for desert dwellers with gravel/sand/dirt bays instead of grass. Shooting at 4-5 local clubs, I've yet to come across a match where things flowed well enough that we could afford to have people picking up brass after each shooter. Maybe squads are larger at some of these other clubs. But with, say, 10 shooters on a squad - that means you have two doing the scoring. One shooting. One getting ready to shoot and one loading mags, etc after shooting. That leaves five shooters to reset the stage.All it takes is one or two of those shooters to be slugs and things can get bogged down pretty fast. Particularly if it's a complicated stage with a lot of steel or moving targets that need to be reset. Everyone once in a while I hear someone in the neighborhood suggest we pick up brass after each shooter. I hope we never try to go that route.

I wonder when we can expect some sort of official clarification on the disaster that is the "standing reload" rule.

I'm loving mine, particularly for my own practice sessions. I love not having that large timer banging around on my belt. It's not, however, quite as loud as the handheld timers I've used. While ROing a recent match, there were a few times when I had to do restarts because the shooter never heard the timer go off. I just try to move the timer closer to the shooter's ear than I do with a handheld timer. Battery life seems pretty darn good. Think i was still at 60 percent or better after the match was over.

It's sort of like the Colt Commander. We will refer to other 1911s with 4.25" barrels as commander-style, commander-sized, etc. But the only true Commander is made by Colt. But most of us know what someone means when they say they have a commander. I think of 2011 the same way. It's become a generic reference to double-stack 1911-style guns.

They say Navy Seals and other tactical types told them that they would never "leave a position without a fully-charged weapon." (This, I offer straight from an email exchange I had with Joyce Wilson, executive director of IDPA) . Somehow, IDPA interpreted this to mean that we should never move while reloading. But if IDPA really cared about what these Navy Seals said - we should be requiring shooters to reload every time they change positions. That would of course be problematic for any stage with multiple shooting positions - since we can only carry 2 spare mags. The other theory some of us have is that some elements within IDPA want to draw a more distinct line between IDPA and USPSA, where no one cares when, where or even if you reload.

Of course, this is the problem with IDPA's reloading rules. They work for 90 percent or more of what we find in stages. But then we have examples like this that fall into a huge gray area. Some SO's might give a PE here. Others might not - ruling that there's nothing that prevents a shooter from making up shots on a target while on the move. (assuming the required # of shots were taken from cover, as required in the COF.)

I see what you are saying. I suppose the shooter would have to wait until he is on the move and in the open before emptying the gun. Since round dumping is not illegal, this should be a legal strategy. Of course, someone is going to come along (here or at a match) and say something about violating the "spirit of IDPA." Of course that little term is about as easy to define as pornography. Just another chunk of gray area where the IDPA braintrust will have to offer some guidance.

But even if you have neutralized all of the targets from behind a cover position, it would still be a problem to leave cover with an unloaded gun. That's been the source of a large chunk of the PE's I've seen at matches. The classic example is the shooter who has just sliced the pie at an open doorway and finds himself at slidelock. The shooter must complete his reload before stepping across that open doorway - even if every target seen through that doorway has been neutralized. The new reload rules don't change that. They just restrict what we can do when we are behind larger stretches of cover. No more tac reloads while moving from one end of a wall to the other end, etc.

Actually, the new rules do say that a shooter who runs dry in the open may initiate an emergency reload while advancing to the next position of cover. (Sec. 3.8) However, when slicing the pie, you are still behind cover when you finish shooting the last target. So you could easily pick up Procedural penalty for emptying your gun at that point and then reloading while running to the next position. The rules are clear that you cannot leave a position of cover while reloading. I've been trying to figure out other ways where this could come into play. The one way it seems possible is if you have a stage that requires you to shoot while moving in the open. Say you have to cross from one set of barrels to another, while engaging 3 targets. It seems to me that it would be within the rules to quickly empty your gun into those three targets (while you are in the open) and then do your reload on your way to the next cover position. I don't see many stages popping up like this. And even when they do, how many times would the ammo count work out to be advantageous? Not often, I'm betting.

This is so true. They've taken away one of the few choices a shooter could make on some stages. But in the end, it's their game to do with as they please.

Well, I can tell you why they say they made the change. Or at least why the leadership of IDPA says they made the change. They say they talked to Navy Seals, Rangers, tactical trainers etc. and those people all agreed they would not leave a position without a fully charged weapon. Of course, if this is true (and we are looking to the Seals for guidance), it's unclear why IDPA doesn't require shooters to do a tac reload before moving to any new shooting position? That's what Seals would do, according to IDPA. Instead, the new rules actually encourage a shooter to move without a fully-charged weapon. It is generally going to be more advantageous to move with 1 or 2 rounds in your gun, than it is to reload - since we can no longer do tac reloads on the move.

Certainly a great point. And I think I've been persuaded that it's not as unsafe as I thought it was. But I do see a difference in these guns. A 1911 trigger has so little play (compared the others you mention) that there is very little room for error. And most of us are trying to draw as fast as possible. Things can get blurry as the gun leaves the holster. Technique, Discipline and training, no matter how much you do it, are never a 100 percent guarantee against a mistake. It seems like every big match I attend includes numerous DQs (including some of our best shooters) for offenses we train ourselves not to do. Mistakes do happen. So I guess I see that safety as a safeguard that costs me nothing in terms of time on the draw. So why not use it?

Agreed. I've not heard good things in the past about the guns. But this one looks promising. And I do find myelf wanting a Single Stack in .40. But I've done too much accidental beta testing in my life to do it willingly. I'm going to wait to see what others have to say about this gun before I dive in.

Travis posted this yesterday on 1911forum.com: "We're probably less than a month out now."

"The shooter may pivot on one foot or move the torso, as long as the pivot foot does not lift or slide." That seems pretty clear to me that you can move 1 foot, but the other must stay put. However, as usually happens when you try to eradicate the idea of 'freestyle', interpretations may vary by tribe. Thanks Moto. Maybe my club needs to revise how they're enforcing this rule. 3 weeks ago while reloading, I took a step forward with my right foot w/o my left foot ever moving. Caught myself, stepped back with the right, ate a PE, finished the reload, cursed a few words, finished the CoF. This is exactly the scenario I fear. Doesn't sound like you gained any advantage by moving that foot. You even lost time by moving your foot back. And then still got a PE. It's this sort of anal interpretation of the rules that threatens to strangle IDPA.

Just based on one match, it appears that one of the big challenges facing the SO team is that for this particular rule, they need to be watching the gun - and the shooter's feet at the same time. I'm of the belief that the primary SO should be focused on the gun. Hard to really expect that person to also consistently watch a shooter's feet. So maybe it's the scorekeeper who watches the shooter's feet. Of course, the score keeper is often watching from a different direction - and may not have an unobstructed view of the gun. It's just a silly rule. And one that's going to be tough to police reliably and consistently. When we start handing out procedurals for this - it's going to quickly become one of our most hated rules. My own personal interpretation - as long the shooter isn't taking obvious steps, I won't be calling anything.

We shot our first match this past weekend with the new rules. The flat-footed reload is just as annoying as I thought it would be.

Dry firing is certainly your friend on this issue. Yet no amount of practice will ever eliminate the oops factor. You can certainly minimize it, but mistakes happen. Maybe there is some microscopic speed increase in turning off the safety earlier in the draw. And obviously there are shooters out there who do this every day without shooting themselves in the leg or firing into the ground. Just a decision every shooter has to make.

I flip off the safety as I begin the press out toward the target. Just can't see any advantage to flipping off the safety as it leaves the holster - with the gun pointed in the general direction of my leg/foot. But I can easily envision something really bad happening if you happen to hit the trigger a little too quickly with that method.

Bunch of guys at our club - myself included - shoot .40 minor in ESP. Off the top of my head, I can think of 5. I had a 9mm eagle but have never regretted moving to a .40 eagle. Minor loads with 155 gr bullets are just so soft and easy shooting. If you think you might do some USPSA later, it is the perfect way to go. Particularly if you do your own reloading.

Guess I have long thumbs.

I don't flip the safety off until I begin the press-out toward the targets. Flipping the safety off as the gun is leaving the holster strikes me as an unnecessary risk. I don't see how it saves any time. But I can certainly see a scenario for a dangerous accidental discharge. Thanks for the help guys! ok, I'll practice that way. I've been disengaging just as the pistol clears the holster. Does your thumb ride on top of the safety? That's how I've been doing it but it really kind of "pinches" the web of my hand...... Yeah, the right thumb rides the safety, once you disengage it.

I don't flip the safety off until I begin the press-out toward the targets. Flipping the safety off as the gun is leaving the holster strikes me as an unnecessary risk. I don't see how it saves any time. But I can certainly see a scenario for a dangerous accidental discharge.

I've bought a used Edge and two used Eagles. Only one of them had an issue, but I knew about it going in - and the gun was priced accordingly. Hell, you always take a chance when buying a used anything. But I'd feel pretty confident buying on this site.

I keep some spare pins and fiber optic strips. Maybe a recoil spring. Plus an extra gun.