motosapiens

Shooting for no score still isn't fun to me. I don't expect to win the division, but would like to see where I land. Then use legal ammunition. Seriously, I think there is a very valid point raised about new shooters with factory ammo. I'd hate to have to tell someone "haha, store-bought ain't good enough for us". And I can see the point that since chrono stages are rare, some people may be put out by having one unexpectedly, and some people may just not be all that serious. Not everyone is trying to cheat or cut as close as they can. Some people probably just got a load in a book and liked the way it shot and have never had an opportunity to chrono it to verify they are playing with legal ammunition. Maybe a reasonable solution would simply be to have the chrono for informational purposes only, but still publish the informational numbers in the results. We all have an obligation imho to make a good-faith effort to show up with legal equipment, not just bring whatever we have and see if we can rationalize it being ok. Having said that, I have to admit, I would be nervous if I showed up to a match and had an unexpected chrono stage for score, but that would be entirely on me because I waited so long to get a chrono and a decent powder measure, and I have a stockpile of ammo from before.

If you have access to a chrono, I'd love to see your data when you shoot a few. should be a nice sensible safe load. No problem just have to figure out which chrono to buy. Give me a week or two and I'll let you know i just got a pro-chrono digital from shooters connection. seemed like the best bang for the buck, and the 3 times i've used it the readings have been consistent and made sense. (start every session with a handful of .22's from my bersa to make sure things are reading what i expect. figure I should get 100 chrono sessions from one lot of bulk-pack 22). It's on sale at midway usa too.

Return of the zombie thread!!!! I would recommend that anyone at least look around locally to see what is available and what prices. I bought primers and powder at sportsman's warehouse a few miles away in boise, until i bought all 3 lbs of n320 they had apparently planned to carry for the rest of the decade. Picked up several thousand primers when they were 20% off at cabelas. Got all my reloading dies locally. After waiting and waiting for more n320, I finally gave up and ordered 4 lbs from powder valley, plus a boatload of primers too. I like zero bullets alot, but if czcustom has them in stock, better just buy them even if you don't need them now. You know you will eventually.

An unannounced chrono stage would make it MORE fun for me. I haven't been to any match with a chrono yet, so I finally just gave up and bought one because I believe in playing within the rules.... plus it's fun.

You're doing it wrong, at least from a compeition perspective. I hear that alot. sigh. Thanks for the explanation. Looks like I have something else to practice. I still don't see how I could possibly look inside the magwell without turning the gun sideways and slowing to a crawl, but bringing the gun back and keeping it high makes sense, and as you push it back out on-target, site acquisition is probably happening on the way, just like when presenting from the draw.

If you have access to a chrono, I'd love to see your data when you shoot a few. should be a nice sensible safe load.

I'm a bit of a newb, but I've been training to reload without looking at the magwell, or pulling the gun back down from a firing position. Should I be looking at the magwell?

are these just 9mms? my m&p 40's have had zero extraction problems in several thousand rounds. Zero problems of any kind actually. I had an occasional (once ever 150 rounds) extraction issue on another gun that seems to have been solved with slightly beefier extractor spring.

It's not the same thing for people that only shoot a match or two every year (for example people who are mostly focused on another discipline). Those people are supposed to pay $40 to idpa, but they just pay a little at each match for uspsa. That's the whole point. The idpa rule(if enforced)discourages the occasional participant from shooting, whereas the uspsa rule does not. Now it's reasonable to speculate that for many, the idpa rule encourages the occasional participant to shoot more matches if he has to join IDPA anyway, and I'd guess for some, that's true. But it certainly also would prevent some people from shooting IDPA. I don't know if IDPA cares about that. Clearly not everyone on this forum does, and that's ok.

Thanks for posting that. It's Good to know you can go that long. what kind of bullets gave you problems at shorter OAL? my m&p40 (full sized and compact) have never had a feeding problem of any kind with factory ammo or my reloads of berrys, zero and mg 165 grain TC bullets. I've always loaded to 1.125 or slightly above.

I think you make some valid points, but for me, personally, as a shooter and also as a competitor in other sports like bicycle and motorcycle racing, I find that I get a much better impression of my improvement by looking at the overall. When the results are sorted out by division/class etc..., then maybe I just look better this week because the other 2 guys in the senior limited paraplegic womens class couldn't make it, but if last year i was in the 70th percentileout of 40 shooters in the overall, and this year i'm in the 40th percentile, chances are I got better. So I pretty much ignore the division results. If an LEO with a flashlight on his gun finished ahead of me in the division or ahead of me in the overall, I wouldn't care, and I wouldn't blame it on his equipment 'advantage'. Sure, that's if it's one individual LEO shows up, it won't upset your percentile in the overalls that much, but if you had one or two squads show up with flashlights? Given a typical club match of 40 people, having another 8-16 people would have a big effect on percentile. Remember that percentile is essentially the number of people whose scores are lower than yours. The more people there are in the population, the more your percentile can be affected. Now if all you are looking at is your score as percentage of the high overall score, then yes, it shouldn't matter... unless those LEO's win enough stages and thereby skewing the way stage points are distributed. I'm not usually looking at how far I am from first, but how much closer I am to first than I was 6 months ago. Perhaps 10 LEO's with flashlights could skew the results if they all show up for only one match, but that assumes that a flashlight is even an advantage. I sure as heck wouldn't want to shoot with one on my gun. Since I seem to be able to shoot major loads just about as quickly and accurately as minor, I'm not convinced that it would be an advantage for a middle-of-the-road shooter. At any rate, I don't really have a dog in this fight, and I'm not really a rules weenie when it comes to what other people use. I worry about what and how I shoot, and let other people do their thing.

True, many folks around here shoot STI's or other guns not originally based on 9mm, so they either have to load longer to feed well, or they choose to load longer because they're using some off-the-reservation load. I have an m&p and a cz75. A faster powder like n320 (which I use for minor9mm and have been using for 40 minor as well) can get to major, but not much more. It's not recommended by VV for 180gr bullets, I've just been testing this week, and chrono'd this load out of my cz. I would think it would be close in the m&p. 5.2grains is the max load in the VV manual at 1.126 oal. I'm loading around 1.13, and there's more room in my m&p magazine, so I wouldn't stress about going up to 5.2 or even 5.3 after some testing and examination for pressure signs. I'm pretty happy with the way the load below shoots. Very manageable on follow-up shots. n320 is about the fastest powder that will make major without exceeding mfr's recommended loads. If that makes you nervous, I'd look at n340, wsf, or one of the numerous other slightly slower powders that will easily make major in a saami-length or less and leave you plenty of room for error. Feb 2012 .40 5.1 gr n320 (.61 autodisk, slightly enlarged) 165 gr zero jhp 1.130 oal wsp 2/9/12 chrono avg 1015, sd 8, pf 167 no unusual primer flattening (less than with factory self-defense loads, for example)

you can make major in 40 with almost any bullet weight, and with almost any powder. what bullet weight you choose will affect what powders you can use, and what will work best. Also, your own personal comfort level will affect powder choice. 180 and 200 grain bullets seem the most popular, with some folks also shooting 165 grain. stacks of threads in this forum about 40 major. If it makes major in any other gun, it should make major in your m&p (or come darned close).

Wandered in there to browse and saw they had cci primers on sale. I just bought 9000 winchester primers, but I can't pass up a deal on something I know I'll eventually need, so I bought 1000 to play with and experiment on my new chrono.

it might not be unfair or unreasonable (especially for folks that are serious about idpa), but I still think it is counterproductive, and if enforced would turn away 'dabblers', some of whom will eventually become more serious. The 1-day membership solution would imho be more productive than either ignoring the rule (which most clubs seem to do) or strictly enforcing it. It would also give IDPA an opportunity to contact these 'dabblers' and know who they are and encourage them to eventually join. But... whatever, I've become reasonably serious about it, so I joined IDPA (after 4-5 matches).

What if IDPA got a clue and offered a $5-10 1-day membership? Many regional motorcycle race sanctioning bodies do this, and it makes it reasonable for me to do a race in oregon or norcal if i happen to be there without having to pony up for an annual membership that I won't get to make use of.

I think you make some valid points, but for me, personally, as a shooter and also as a competitor in other sports like bicycle and motorcycle racing, I find that I get a much better impression of my improvement by looking at the overall. When the results are sorted out by division/class etc..., then maybe I just look better this week because the other 2 guys in the senior limited paraplegic womens class couldn't make it, but if last year i was in the 70th percentileout of 40 shooters in the overall, and this year i'm in the 40th percentile, chances are I got better. So I pretty much ignore the division results. If an LEO with a flashlight on his gun finished ahead of me in the division or ahead of me in the overall, I wouldn't care, and I wouldn't blame it on his equipment 'advantage'.

I personally think it's a silly and destructive policy. fortunately it appears to be largely ignored in many areas. I understand that IDPA is a business and someone has to make money off it, but I think requiring membership is a good way to turn away casual shooter who might only want to shoot a few matches a year. Maybe they concentrate on some other discipline, but occasionally have a free weekend and just want to shoot. If they just charge non-members a couple more bucks, the issue would go away imho. Admittedly, then someone from the club has to send that money to idpa eventually, but it need not be done every month.

Me, too. The conflicting reviews of the CED M2 are especially confusing. I'm wondering if they have a lot of defective units, or whether they're more difficult to set up. I'm considering this one, but (1) with the remote unit it costs as much as the CED and (2) it has the brains out in the line of fire, whereas the CED has the brains in the remote and only the sensors in the line of fire. I just got a CE prochrono. Only used it twice but it was very easy to get started and seems to give consistent and believable readings. If you think you might shoot it from 7-8' away, you need to stop worrying about a chrono and practice shooting instead. At any rate, it's not like getting married, if you get something and don't like it, the world doesn't end. A chrono costs $100-150. About the same as shooting a couple matches. Alot less than racing motorcycles, or dating younger women.

i have an m&p40 compact and a FS also. I mostly shoot minor loads in them. Both are more accurate than I am. No signs of premature unlocking either, but if there was, I'd start by putting a stronger recoil spring in. My cz75 (.40) needed a lighter spring to run creampuff minor loads and cycle reliably. With the lighter springs, it gets a little scrape on the primer when I shoot major loads. I think that's telling me to just put the stock recoil spring back in when I shoot major. I'm ok with that. That gun also shoots better than I do.

I notice there's not much 165 gr data out there, and lots of 180 gr data, but my supplier was out of 180's and had lots of 165's so I got some last year, and have stuck with them since I can't feel any difference anyway (my wife says i'm insensitive). anyway, just got a chrono finally, so I provide the following data to my reloading brothers free of charge. Hopefully someone will find it as useful as I find so much stuff on this forum. I'm impressed with the consistency of the pro-autodisk powder measure. Single-digit standard deviation on 2 out of 3 loads today (plus my 9mm load was even tighter). I only wish the gaps weren't so big between sizes, but that's what sandpaper is for. As you can see, i'm pretty much there on the minor loads (but going to do a little sanding to get about .1 gr more for safety's sake), and still have a little work to do on the major load. I'm pretty conservative, so I'm thinking of trying n340 for major since I won't be right at the published max load then (n320 max is 5.2gr at 1.126 oal for 165gr bullet according to VV). These are all shot out of a cz75b. I forget the barrel length, but y'all have google. Feb 2012 .40 4.2 gr n320 (.53 autodisc) 165 gr zero jacketed 1.130 oal wsp avg velocity 854 140 pf Feb 2012 .40 4.0 gr n320 (.49 autodisc) 165 gr zero jacketed 1.130 oal wsp 2/7/12 chrono avg 763, sd 8, pf 125.9 Feb 2012 .40 5.0 gr n320 (.61 autodisc) 165 gr zero jhp 1.125 oal wsp 2/7/12 chrono avg 984, sd 7, pf 162 (need to try 5.1) Feb 2012 .40 3.2 gr clays (.49 autodisc) 165 gr zero tc 1.125 oal wsp 2/7/12 chrono avg 770, sd 14 pf 127

interesting. i don't think i can get my 40 bullets to move even with no crimp at all. the lee sizing dies size the case small enough that you can see the slight bulge where the bullet is.

just got a pocket pro ii. the instructions say it will turn itself off automatically after 10 mins in case you forget to turn it off, but they offer no clue how to turn it off, or whether turning it off is possible. can anyone buy me a clue?

I'm a total newb, but I do read alot, and think alot. First, 2.8 of clays seems pretty light to me. I've been using 3.4-ish under a 165. Not chrono'd yet, but internet research suggests a 140-ish pf. At 2.8 i'm not convinced you'd make minor pf unless you were using super-slippery bullets like blacks or something. this opinion is subject to retraction when I finally get my chrono this week and stop relying on other people's chrono data. Second, OAL has 2 main effects, one is on pressure, so if you are on the verge of blowing sh!t up, a longer oal can reduce that risk, especially with a spiky sensitive powder like clays. Second, oal affects feeding, so you want to use an oal that fits in your magazines and is reliable in your gun. 3rd, it appears that oal also has an effect on velocity/pf, but the first two effects are vastly more important, so I would tend to ignore this one and just add .1 grain more powder if you need more velocity.

I decap, size and prime in mass quantities (1000 or so at a time) while watching sports on tv. That is also typically when I inspect the brass for cracks or dents or whatever. So when I go to load, I'm starting with sized and primed brass, and things go pretty quickly.