AriM

consumer pricing is dictated by market demand....prices tend to NOT drift below their peak averages....let's take gas for an example.....the price will surge, to test what the market will stand....once an average peak, or percentage of fluctuation is determined, the price is fixed....same with rent...the landlord will raise rates as long as the tenant will stay....when this old tenant will no longer find value in the increase.....they will simple look for a new tenant and start the cycle over again....does anyone honestly think that rental rates will ever go back down to the percentage of gross income they were 10 years ago? i doubt that....the ratio of cost of goods and services, continues to increase beyond the amount taken in by the consumer.....welcome to the cycle of revolving credit.....once the landlords have exploited their market, beyond it's means, and has collected all the wealth....they will offer that wealth back to the consumer as credit....and the cycle further continues....hence, the existing market conditions....the only way to fix this, is for total collapse and re-structure....the proportions are so far off, that there is no way to collateralize the outstanding debt, with raw assets.... there is no bail out, other than hard work....allow they systems to fail, erase the old books, start new ones, and get back to work....comes down to the barter system....it ALWAYS will....what is the value of the gunpowder to you? what are you willing to pay? that is the price....long and short of it is summed up right there....if everyone decided that vv320 was worth 3% above manufacturing cost, guess what the price would be? 3% above, or the product would go under....simple right? if you want to make an impact on a market, boycott it....or figure out how to make the product your self....that's what we are all doing....we can't afford to bare the market price of factory ammo. so we make our own....right? well.....

hey what are your opinions on VV n310.....is the margin too small to make this a safe powder in an unsupported (or should I say a chamber which lacks FULL case support) chamber?? the difference between safe and over MAX is a few tenths of a grain....that kind of scares the crap out of me, but I would really like to try this powder.....can someone give me some data and safety margins for n310, using a 200 SWC (black bullet) in .45AUTO thanks!!!

man are you WAY off, weaver stance and tactical reloads have been proven to make you look uber cool....who cares if you can shoot well or stay safe

and we keep getting more dumber...oops I mean more stupider....yeah that's it!!! oops, I almost forgot....I just got back from seeing this movie....very well done, but it is just a re-make of "last of the mohicans"....been done....and been done more better (who says technology is making us stoopid)

but that's the scam.....no one is expecting you to actually change anything....it's a marketing ploy....to first degrade you and make you feel worthless, and then convince you that xxxx product will fill that void that has been created.....the british are coming the british are coming!!! many frauds have been successfully pulled off, to prey on the weak and feeble minded....hope is just another tool to convince lazy folks that someone else or some device will do for them, what they can already do themselves.... I have something to sell you....and I won't charge anything for it.... first of all YOU ARE A WORTHLESS PILE OF CRAP, NO ONE LOVES YOU, WITHOUT MY ADVICE YOU ARE NOTHING!!!! but wait I have a solution, buy XYZ brand ultra high performance unobtanium filled dumbells, and your life will be better....chicks will dig you, you will have lot's of money, a really bad ass car will magically appear in your driveway....all of your hair will grow back!!! and here is the best part, put your faith and hope in my product, by paying me your money.... forget the fact that you can do all of the things I promised you on your own with out my fancy XYZ product.....pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!! hope is the reservation, that you wont' be doing anything to better your self, instead you will just sit on your worthless ass and wait for someone else to do it for you.....that's the American way!!!!

It was packaged as "tumbler media".....it has some kind of coating....I would NEVER try to shoot steel with it...or try shooting it at the indoor range.....just for blowing things up outside....but like you said, HF's version of steel can't be much harder than pig lead...

yeah I am worried about it in the barrel....I would shoot it out of non-choked barrels though....mossy 590's etc....doubt I would use that load in 3 gun...or anything other than plinking....would never shoot it indoors or at steel....that does sound quite dangerous....I wonder if buffering it with some kind of rubber would help.....eh, just doesn't seem worth it does it? I just couldn't pass up the deal at harbor freight....they sold me 50 pound jugs for $1.13 each....and at the end of the transaction, the manager of the store was just like "give me $6 and you can have all of it".....I have enough, so that it actually made the back end of my car sag when I loaded it all up.....LOLOLOL.....gotta find something to do with it....

Thanks...looking that up now....when you buy "steel shot" hunting loads....for example federal steel....is it just steel plated lead, or are those solid steel BB's? pretty good about metalic reloading (have lot's of experience), but am totally clueless about shotshell....I don't have a press yet....I did the math on shotshell reloading, and it just didn't pencil out....I can buy ammo for less than making it..... BUT, now that I have tons of shot that was next to free and I have LOTS of really nice (once fired) hi-brass hulls....all I need are wads...and primers....this way I could build a loaded round for about 5 cents....hope I am correct on that... EDIT : YIKES!!!! those wads for steel shot/hevi-shot are expensive...cheapest I can find is the bulk order....and that is just under 3 cents each....thankfully the buffer material is cheap....I am thinking I can make my own buffer material, by just grinding up a bunch of airsoft pellets or some large chunks of plastic/rubber.....thanks for this info....

Well, I went to harbor freight to get some more walnut media (it's dirt cheap there, $15 for 25pounds) and they had steel shot on blowout.....I got everything they had....I wound up paying about $6 for over 300 pounds (yes I am serious)....do you guys think it's unreasonable to try and use that steel shot in ShotShell loads?? I was thinking of mixing it with some rubber/plastic pellets, to act as a buffer....I was a bit iffy about trying that in my nice barrel, but if it's not usable, then I just have a bunch of ballast for other "projects".... Any opinions would be appreciated....Thanks

I use BOTH, to verify charges....I use the digital to set-up the measure....and then a beam, set to my desired charge....to verify as production moves along...I like this method, because I can get really close with the digital...and then watch a specific weight on the beam....I have noticed a very small discrepancy between the digital and the beam....I think this is due to static/magnetic anomalies and their affect on the digital....I have 2 digitals (one is an extremely accurate scientific scale)....my Hornady reads a bit off, but the scientific (syco) measures almost exactly what the beam shows....the beam is an RCBS 5-0-5....have not had any troubles beyond that....

+1....clipping coils will only change pre-load and will not change "weight"....."weight" is determined by the size of wire and tightness of "coils".....this is very oversimplified, but I don't think you will get what you are looking for by simply clipping coils from a spring....

a strong crimp is not necessary on a cartridge that head spaces on the mouth.....in fact the only thing that is necessary is to remove the bell/flare caused by the case mouth expanding die.....as long as you get the case wall straight again, you are good to go....nothing else is necessary, and a true "crimp" or inward taper will cause excessive pressure and is absolutely un-necessary in an auto loader....not sure what kind of profile the lee FCD provides, but just as long as it straightens the case mouth back out and doesn't roll/chamfer or deform the case mouth....you are fine

Depends on what you mean by "stay in the tube". If you drop an empty Kimber 8-round mag on a concrete floor, the short front "leg" of the follower will pop over the front on the mag tube. Do I wish it wouldn't do that? Sure. On the other hand, it takes about a second to pop in back in place with my index finger so I can't regard that as a hideous flaw. hmmm the wilson design doesn't do that....I have my tripp research followers on the way, but still need to find an appropriate spring..... the CMC follower actually completely comes out and flies down range....this happened twice to me last time I did reloads at the range....so I had to put my sweater down on the ground in front of me to help soften the impact....no probloems after that.....except for the crap that got all over my sweater.... I think the solution here is going to be the tripp research followers and a good spring....in the CMC tube, using the modified CMC base pads...(I shaved them down to fit my magwell)....that's my 10 round setup and for 8 rounders I will stick with the wilson mags and extended basepads....and just change to the tripp follower... 10 rounders for limited 10....8 rounders for single stack and social work hope it works out and solves my problems

Maybe each must find his/her own path....maybe that's the whole point of this life.....to find what is necessary for YOU as an individual, to move on to the next life....hope is just the expectation that someone else will solve things or that you might do something....."man I HOPE I will get that raise"...how about instead you say...."I am going to get that raise, no matter what it takes".....that way hope is abandoned and a REAL course of action is laid out....

Junk! I have my lead tested every year (as should you all) the only time it was high was from a sorrry indoor range. I don't shoot indoors anymore but I still cast and all is good. +2.....there is no danger in casting lead....as long as you follow some basic, logical safety guidelines.....hell i have been casting for years and I still have one of my testicles....

I also heard that painting flames on the side of your car will add 40 + Horsepower....!!!!!!!!!!! also try a performance muffler bearing...!!!! they sure do make a large variety of projectiles though don't they.....I would be interested to see some too

+1.....hell it took years of casting for a black line to form around my gums....and I still have more than half of my hair!!!

I can cast and lube a 200gn. SWC in .452" for about $0.03.....the same bullet commercially sells for about $0.07-0.09 one pound of good quality casting lead (cleaned) can be bought for just under one dollar there are 7000 grains in one pound that is 35 200 grain bullets per pound you can make your own bullet lube out of parafin wax, vaseline, and STP fuel addative so let's say that costs a fraction of a cent per bullet that's just under 0.03 per bullet you can get a decent casting setup for under $200 (decent, not great and not junk) so you have a savings of approx 5 cents per bullet that means that after 4000 bullets you would pay for the gear....and everything after that would be a larger savings if you factor in your time....it's much less worthwhile....but you might really enjoy doing it...I know I do also you can get custom molds and make totally unique bullets that are specific to your needs....that's another benefit.... also you aren't dependent on the stock of your favorite bullet maker.... lot's of pluses....

hey not trying to continue this debate (it's pointless)....but "bullet lead" varies GREATLY in alloy content....I cast my own, so I know a little bit about lead alloy (not saying I know it all but, I know enough to know that what you are saying is a bit off)...)....I am not sure if you are interested, but I would be happy to send you some information on different lead alloys and also how they rate on the Brinell hardness scale....check out some of the info. on this link....it's pretty good as a reference.... http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm I have tried alloy with an antimony content lower than 4%....in reality it does not change hardness that dramatically, but does drastically change the "cure time" for the cast Also arsenic can be considered a hardening agent....but mostly this data becomes relevant when shooting above 1700FPS....under 1200FPS, you could probably get away with shooting 98% pig lead 1% antimony 1/2% (plus or minus) tin and a tad of arsenic.....and water quenching your cast....you could play with the tin/arsenic ratio... http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/bullethardness/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_hardness typical hardness of copper is 35BHN Lyman #2 alloy (considered the industry standard) is a 15BHN http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm no need to continue the debate in the thread....it's not helpful to anyone.... cast bullets are measured on the Brinell hardness scale....BHN.... enjoying my popcorn BTW

I am with you 100%.....I remember going to engineering school....I had already been working in the business for a few years....but I mainly went to have the piece of paper (which I never got) and make new contacts....well let me tell you how hard it was to hold my tongue.....90% of what was being taught was book logic....and had NO practical applications, what so ever....I hate to knock higher education this way....but a book and a guy with ZERO practical experience can only take you so far... then you hit the real world, and nothing is what you expected....and as you said, that kind of information, in a dangerous line of work, can get you killed.... well I didn't even bother to finish my engineering courses....I just couldn't sit there and watch some guy tell these wide eyed kids how to do things wrong....funny thing is....my "teacher" came to work for me at my studio some years later.... I really don't want to sound like I think I am above education, I am certainly not....that's why I am here on BE forums....I love to learn and be schooled....just not by some guy who has never done what he is trying to teach me.... maybe everything we need to know is already inside of us....and we just have to unlock it....I firmly believe that God is us...we have that inside...so as we have the perception of changing....it is really us conforming to the spirit with-in...just my thoughts on that, certainly can't prove it.....that's faith...

yeah also the "dime" load method....you can load damn near anything into a hull....but I don't load shotshells...they are still cheap as hell around here...and I only shoot my shotguns once or twice a month....I am pretty ignorant when it comes to shotgun loads....so you know better than me... I have seen the guts of AA buck though....the balls are quite round and well formed....I think you are right about them being swaged....I just cant see casting them being economical...bird shot is another story....but I wouldn't know too much on the subject.... I just shoot em' would love to get a MEC9000 though and have a go at it....looks like fun....

"Well, from what I've seen you don't really have anything to be smug about, but go ahead if it'll make you feel better " if that's not condescending, i don't know what is.........meh.....this is just not worth anyone's time anymore.....it's a poll....I am going to let the poll speak for itself.....no more comments from me in this thread, you guys can argue about it all you want though....I am going to sit on the sidelines with some popcorn and watch.... as I have stated over a dozen times already....shooting jacketed bullets (for whatever reason) wears a barrel faster, just like the poll says....this is just a fruitless debate, the outcome is still the same....flame cutting, friction wear, erosion....whatever the case may be...

yeah I could see methods for casting buckshot, but I doubt it would equal a ball up to today's standards, and my god it would be a painful and slow process....4 castings to fill one hull....LOL The machinery doesn't seem so expensive....but the floorspace and shipping department...think about the weight that would be sitting on the warehouse floor.... i have a feeling the cost vs. profit would balance out quickly (6 months of production)....since the market is so hot right now....but I think trying to start up for under $30k is just going to drive you to an early grave (when would you not be pulling those handles or pouring lead?).... tell you what, sell your house....and I'll sell my business, and we'll buy a warehouse with a train depot, and corner the lead market....

so either way shooting jacketed bullets still wears your barrel faster right?

not sure if it's true, but I have heard that Precision is just a distributor....and that the cores are made elsewhere....but can't confirm that rumor....swaging in bulk I think would actually be easier than casting....as you said, rotary dies....look up the online tour for the Sierra bullet factory....it shows how they form cores and jackets from 80 pound lead ingots....all the way to a packaged product.... you are right though, any machine that you had to hand load would never be usable in a commercial setting....maybe only for custom low volume projectiles.... Since buckshot has to be "rounder" than simple bird shot....I would have to agree that casting (using the drip method) would be impossible for decent quality buckshot.... seems less and less possible for the average guy to get into commercial casting and make a profit...you would be working 24/7 just to make a fraction of a percentage on each order.... automation would become necessary, VERY quickly