vluc

And nor should you care... Rob, you have done more to advance this sport than just about anyone else I can think of at the moment. Call it whatever you want, we know what you are talking about. +1. While the BOD may not listen to us as shooters, the fact that Rob is entering the conversation should tell them plenty. Rob, many thanks for getting involved!

No, they will be getting royally PO'd, contacting as many AD's as possible, stirring the pot with other members who are unaware of what is going on, telling them how it will impact them, then voting those out who disregard what the membership has to say. It is OUR organization.

What the others have said. Two terms that frequently come up with Production that need to be removed from the lexicon are "entry level" and "equipment race". If you don't want an equipment race, then petition the rules to have only one (1) type of gun that is allowable. That way all equipment is the same. As soon as a second type, that is different, is introduced, the race has begun. Same with bullets, sights, primers, springs, etc. I don't agree with the concepts of levels in USPSA insofar as the Divisions are concerned (see, Rob, I know what they are! ). You don't start in one then graduate up to another. They are fluid and people move back and forth, with no need to have mastery in one before moving to another. One can just as easily call Limited an entry level since just as many people, when they start, can play in it. You don't have to be a competitor to want the optimal performance from your equipment from within what has been allowed. I don't compete with anyone regarding my smartphone, but I optimize it to the extent I can with rooting and custom ROM's. Same with my E-book reader and my new tablet. It is the nature of some people to push the envelopes and get the most they can. Others are content to have very strict guidelines drawn for them. Odd that we attract both in a sport that values freestyle.

Post that info, give educations to the readers out there. If you have good stuff, share it.

Participation in Production in Western PA Section: 2005 20% 2006 23% 2007 26% 2008 28% 2009 34% 2010 37% Over that same time period, Limited went from 32% to 26%, L10 from 14% to 11%, Open from 32% to 16%, SS from 4% to 14%, and revolver hovered at 5-4%. So here, Production and Single Stack are our growth areas.

Welcome! What part of PA?

oops, double tap.

Thank you! To paraphrase Edmund Burke: 'The only thing necessary for the triumph [of X] is for good men to do nothing.' Note: I am not in any way implying X was done. Just a part of the quote. When good men do/say nothing, less than ideal things can happen.

Well said, Vlad. My comment of freezing it was a poor choice of words to reflect what you said. If we get back to intent, let's get back to why practical shooting was founded - to see what limits handguns could be pushed to.

That mag issue came up months ago as a result of a listing in Front Sight (at work now with no access to it). At least I am aware of it from local matches and a major I worked. A literal interpretation of the rules. Surely not the intent but that was how it was interpreted by many RO's, and the front sight comment reinforced it. Cannot start with magazines in front of the hipbone. Seems simple enough until a SS shooter comes to the line with a mag tucked in the front of his belt as his barney mag or in his hand. See, such a simple wording, but with various ramifications that were never thought of, but of such a magnitude that a clarification had to be issued. Like Lpatterson, I cautioned people about starting with a mag in hand or front until after that clarification. This is why the notion of "intent" is so vague. When half of a group of RO's sees it one way and the other half the other way, intent takes a back seat to what exactly do you mean.

I really do not want to see this piecemeal approach to production. We have this trigger pull issue, we have the subsequent vote to continue to review and evaluate production to see if it stays true to its intent. As a shooter, I am kind of like a businessman who must make decisions based on knowing there is stability in rules, law, taxation, etc. How can I make a solid decision about production when I am already being told that it will continue to be tweaked and I go through this roller coaster every few years? I love the division, absolutely love the mental and physical challenge of it. I am not so adamant that I would stop shooting if things changed, but I want to know that what I use now will be good 2-5-7 years down the road or I want to know it won't and how/why what will be. Either start over or freeze it as it is. No additional mods, no changing what you already have done. Accept that it has become a hybrid or kill your baby and try to make a new one.

I saw/touch/felt and bought. Loaded it up with gear and find I don't really like it. It will be for sale soon. Found that I like the ability to hang and hook a bunch of different things off of the Rush 24, and while it is not directly designed for the use we put it, it works pretty darn well.

Some aftermarket parts are quite difficult to tell from factory, yet add some value. Take down levers for Glock from other mfg's make it easier to remove the slide and are reported to aid in locking the gun up tighter (easier to grip, better ridges, but is not allowed). Supposedly the Vickers mag release is better than factory and again, not permitted. Unless you saw these parts in advance, a casual inspection of a Glock could not really tell the difference. Do they give a competitive advantage, well, I've never been beaten by a magazine release button, but given the thought that a dot in your magwell is a competitive advantage, then I guess any of these would be. All would be considered external as you can see some part of them, and an aftermarket trigger would absolutely be visible! Blame Springfield for muddying the waters. If they had simply bought the company, then you would have had to order the parts from them and they would not be considered aftermarket.

Oh Crap Pat, I did the same thing. Chris is going to be busy! FWIW, I was impressed with his answers and candor, he will do the right thing for us. Good job, both of you! Western PA Section will be getting one out as well to all members whose email addresses we have - about 175 at last count.

Against: Chuck Anderson, Gary Stevens For: all the rest Several now seem to feel they may have made a less than well-informed decision (and that's a good thing!)

It is a nightmare world, like being forced to eat only ONE potato chip.

Good thing this info dump was before Christmas, might have gotten more of an earful. I did when I let the MD's at our clubs know about it. I haven't sent out the mass email to the entire section yet....

A keener eye towards Parliamentary procedure is probably in order given that one BoD member quotes here he was told by the President to "shut the f up." Don't recall that in Robert's Rules of Order. And ditto on not needing members to vote on every issue. We do elect our AD's to do that, with the understanding that they would solicit feedback from their members. I said it before and it bears repeating - "Decide in haste, repent at leisure." Seems some are repenting.

Merry Christmas!

First time they were tight and I had to use a punch to push them out. Now they go back and forth with no problem.

CZ. mine bone stock was 3# already with a lyman gauge, and mine all have firing pin blocks. the shadows are lighter out of the box. Thanks. Good to hear from the other side of the production platform!

Fixed. Thanks!!!!

My experience echoes Sarge. While I have since returned to a less modified trigger, albeit still lighter than stock, it made it easier for me to learn the game and play well, and mine was just with polishing and tweaking.

I personally could care less what the BOD "thinks" each division should be. The rules define the division. If production was supposed to be a "box stock" or a "carry" division, that's something they should have addressed 11 years ago. You are correct. The question is what we do now? In my opinion, nothing. Except vote this down. (thanks justaute!) Over the years you had a host of break points or defining moments, places where you could have drawn the line in the sand and said "NO". You did not, despite having the "intent" as the guiding principle. Now you want a trigger pull limit to get back to the stock intent, but forget all of the other mods you approved that moved you away from it. Once you allowed a modification that could not be undone (stippling), all bets were off. At that point the notion of box stock was gone, never to be returned to. The BOD could have made rulings that caused parts to be replaced/returned so that you could use the "intent" clause to get you back to the stock notion, but with stippling you absolutely will force shooters to either buy a new gun or be FORCED to move to a different division, or just quit the game altogether.

Until we know what the official method would have been (optimistically speaking), it does not matter what your trigger weighs now.