gng4life
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Posts posted by gng4life
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I agree, I would just use the 124's you have and load them up to 135-140 PF, that should take care of any steel standing. Problem with HS-6 is that it's not the best minor powder. Don't load them too minor, I would stay at or above 140 PF and see how you like those. Let us know how it goes...
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Besides, a. 380 case will pop out of a 9mm shellplate when you try to seat the primer.
Not necessarily. I have a small pile of primed .380 cases next to my 9mm presses - they do get through! Another one that I sometimes see in mixed brass batches is the 9mm Makarow
Really? Okay, I'll qualify that statement a little bit. If are using a Dillon 550 with a #5 shellplate to load 9mm and you put a .380 standard case with a case head diameter of about .374 (vs. about .392 of a 9mm), it SHOULD be pushed out of the shellplate when you attempt to seat the primer. The .380 case uses a #3 shellplate from Dillon. I have tons of .380 that slipped through my sorting and got into my case bin. In fact, had a few on Saturday night.
However, I don't think this is the issue at hand, there is a big difference between the .380 and 9mm case and easily distinguishable if you have both cases to compare. I'm going with the powder lots or internal case dimension theories.
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Besides, a. 380 case will pop out of a 9mm shellplate when you try to seat the primer. Can you both take pics and post them, this is really getting my curiosity up? Thanks
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Are you right handed? What other distances did you test them at? What type of rear sight do you have? Do you have a pic of the targets?
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I had some similar results with N350. I heard others on here making major with it and I couldn't even get close without the primers looking pretty bad and it felt pretty rough. I do love the VV powders but that was not a good choice for what I was doing in my pistol.
Funny you mention WAC, I just picked up a pound today to do some experimenting. I'll try the load you listed (but working my way up) to see what happens with my pistol. I want to try Comp also before I decide on my favorite load. Thanks for the post Kevin!
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i have autocomp and powerpistol in my powder inventory. Maybe its just me but it seems like the muzzle blast off of PP is like getting punched in the face.. Thanks for the tips
Yeah, the first time I shot PP, I was like, "what the crap??". I thought I had overloaded it but after checking the cases, checking my powder, checking the chrono, and just the general feel, I assumed it was just the nature of the powder. Still one of my favorites, especially with heavy Major rounds (9mm 147). I got use to it after a while and still use it sometimes...
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Here is a post from a guy who actually tried it and got 166 PF the first time. Still, I don't think I would try it but it's up to you. I would recommend HS-6, Power Pistol, WAC, or Silhouette.
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I use 3.3/3.4g of VV N320 and get 135 Power Factor in my M&P Pro 9mm. Sounds like your Chrony is way off or your powder measure.
Chrony might be off. Scale, hell that could be off too :-). The chrony is an older PACT and has seen better days. I'm at ICORE this week and if my ammo chron's much different than it does at home I'll buy a new chrony.
Let us know how it goes, I'm curious to see what this is...I have an older PACT (about 15 years old) and it seems to run great and accurate. Good luck this week...
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If you can make it down to Charleston on Saturday, there is a great match there hosted by Palmetto Gun Club and the match director is Lee King. He and the crew put on a great match and Charleston is an awesome place to visit. Check out the site under disciplines, www.palmettogunclub.org
I tried contacting Coastal Practical a long time ago but never got a response to my emails. Hope you can make it down...
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Working up a new minor load for the wife's CZ-75SA since I wanted to try and make her one of the "feels like cheating they are so soft loads" and for the second time in the last couple of months N320 got stomped by Ramshot Competition. The other load was a major load for my.40S&W Tac Sport where Competition also beat N320.
The two loads that made ~135PF were CCI Primer, Win Case, 147g MGB, 1.140 OAL with 3.8g N320 or 3.4g Competition. Multiple back to back blind tests with my wife confirmed the Competition shot noticeably softer than N320. Both loads are way softer than the old 124g load she has been using for years.
Just thought I'd pass it along.
Would you mind passing along the .40 Major load? I have heard a few other good things about Ramshot powders and now I'm interested in getting some Comp and True Blue to try out. Thanks for any info...
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I have mine at .420 also with my Dillon die and never any issues. Same with my 9mm, I have them at .375. However, it also depends on brass, especially range brass.
Taking it down to .417 is a little too tight for my taste. Remember it headspaces on the case mouth so it's not a good idea to get it too tight.
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I guess the old guy thing is kicking in on me , just do not understand the ultralight gun thing. I have weight added to the front of my 5"
Yeah, the idea is to get that swing moving from target to target and since you don't anticipate to shoot any follow-up shots (at least that's the plan), then on the swing, you can recover from the muzzle rise. The light guns help get to the next plate and stop in time without over-running it. I did this with two rifles I built, one at 6lbs and one at 4lbs. My times on most of the Steel Challenge stages were faster almost every time with the light rifle - the heavier one started to feel like a tank compared to the light one. I have four pistols set up now for Steel Challenge and will start doing the same test with them. Everything from a Ruger 22/45 with a 3" TacSol barrel to a M41 with a Bully so this should be fun.
I know you are a great shooter so with your experience, it might not be as much as a difference but for us mortals, it does help us get better and be competitive
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....since you can't use a comp in iron sight division anyway.
You might want to check on that, I believe they are legal.
Yeah, they used to be allowed when it was called "Rimfire Optic" division. In the new rules, it's called Rimfire Open (for optics or comps) and Rimfire Iron (specifies no optic or comp or ports allowed - A.2.2)
I like the old rules better but they never asked me what I liked
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Exactly, for low volume shooters or those who like to buy a little at a time, that is fine. If you look at PV for the Berry 155 @ 1000, it is 96.74 plus shipping. If you buy the MG 155 from Manny, it is $92.66 per thousand and that is shipping included. So in this instance, MG is a better bullet and cheaper (by about $20 here), how can you go wrong? You just have to buy at least 3000 in this scenario. It would be better to try to buy some in bulk and NEVER buy the 1000 pack from MG
MG is almost always in stock and I usually get them the same week that I order them, unlike Zero.
Can you give me a link, I couldent find them.
The link for Powder Valley is http://powdervalleyinc.com and the link for Manny is http://mannyusa.com. I know Manny says you have to buy six cases but write or call him and he'll work out something with you. You can go directly to MG at http://montanagoldbullet.com but they will be a little higher. Again, don't look at the 1K bags, go for the cases - so much cheaper. Bullets are like toilet paper, you can never have enough of it and it never expires
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Exactly, for low volume shooters or those who like to buy a little at a time, that is fine. If you look at PV for the Berry 155 @ 1000, it is 96.74 plus shipping. If you buy the MG 155 from Manny, it is $92.66 per thousand and that is shipping included. So in this instance, MG is a better bullet and cheaper (by about $20 here), how can you go wrong? You just have to buy at least 3000 in this scenario. It would be better to try to buy some in bulk and NEVER buy the 1000 pack from MG
MG is almost always in stock and I usually get them the same week that I order them, unlike Zero.
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Please forgive the possible tone of this reply, as I honestly do not intend it to be personal ... I really wish folks would stop using the term "legal" or "legality" wrt the rules of our (or any other) sport.
To me, this implies "law" and/or "statute" for which there may or may not be criminal sanctions. Congress has not voted on, nor has the President signed into "law" anything in our rule book!
The USPSA rule book, much as the rule book for any other sport, sets forth what one may and may not do in certain situations. It also prescribes the "penalties" set forth, usually in scoring, for violating certain rules and/or procedures. At this point, the savvey shooter will analyze the penalty to be incurred by violating a given rule or procedure and make a determination as to whether or not he is better off adhering to the rule or procedure (in terms of his HF), or by violating the rule or procedure and accepting the appropriate penalty does he improve his HF and increase the number of points earned in the match. Remember, our scoring system measures HF's and a smart competitor will try to get the highest HF he can on any given CoF. This is why the "designer's intent" is irrelevant in our sport. Note also, that if the infraction is great enough, the RM MAY decare it a "Forbiden Action" and require a reshoot ... but that is not what we are discussing here.
Therefore, it behooves any given shooter to know the rules well enough, as well as his own shooting abilities, to determine whether or not to fire a "make up" shot on a VC CoF. Remember, this is frequently done in mere fractions of a second as otherwise the opportunity to improve one's HF vanishes as the clock is ticking!
JAFO - wrt an FTE on a target ... So long as the shooter fires an actual round somewhere in the general direction of a target, it has been engaged. (General direction is somewhat up to the judgement of the RO on the scene, I admit, but I think you see my point.) WRT when the shooter "chooses" to fire an extra round (and accept the penalty or penalties) ... that is up to the shooter. Assume a 2 string stage. String one is Freestyle/reload/SHO. String two is Freestyle/reload/WHO. Personally, if after the first string I notice I have a definite Mike I will choose to make it up on the freestyle portion of the second string. That is generally where I believe I have the best chance of trading my Mike for and Extra Shot penalty and gain (hopefully) an Alpha in the exchange. If I do it quickly and smoothly enough, my HF will almost certainly be higher than if I had simply let it be.
This is not "illegal" in my view. It is a shooter being willing to accept a penalty (in this case, effectively in trade for another penalty) in order to gain scoring points and improve his HF. I've on occasion heard this called "cheating" ... It is not. It's simply knowing the rules and using them at all times to your best advantage to maximize your HF.
If I have offended anyone, I ask forgiveness ... I mean no offense. I simply have no problem with a shooter who knows enough to trade one penalty for another (on the fly) in order to regain some lost HF.
First look at one of the definitions of law and legal -
Law - a system or collection of such rules.; any rule or injunction that must be obeyed:;
Legal - permitted by law; lawful
Law does not have to be the statues or codes passed by a government; it can be just rules that should be followed that are agreed upon. I used to be a police officer and taught law enforcement classes so I just want to give you another perspective on the terms.
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I've had up to +/- .008 in some slightly compress 9Major loads but that's it. Never seen .015 variation in my any of my loads...What seating die are you using? If a Dillon, what cup do you have in it? What bullet type/shape?
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I'm not sure where you are seeing them as "much cheaper" than jacketed bullets but I have not found that during my search for the cheapest bullet. Yes, PV is the best place to buy them if you buy them but in most instances, they are not much cheaper. The only situation I came across where they were much cheaper is in the super light 9mm bullets. I was comparing MG 95gr JHP and the Berry 100gr HBRN. My cheapest source for 4500 MGs was $361 and I could get them from PV (with shipping) for about $315. With that $46, I could buy a half of a jug of powder or couple boxes of primers but that's it. In all the other weights and calibers, the difference was less than $10-15 in every instance and sometimes, the MG or Zero turned out cheaper (in quantity).
If you are a low-volume shooter or just want the ability to buy in small quantities and just something that is for plinking or practice, they are not too bad. I still have some that I use. However, I do not use them for anything serious due to group sizes are normally twice of what the MG or Zero bullets can do. I started buying in bulk and haven't used many of the plated bullets anymore, just not worth it in my mind.
Good luck with whatever you decide...
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To answer your original question, yes, there is such a thing as a plateau (it's really an apex since it drops off at a point, a plateau is really where there is no increase or decline) with reloading powders. However, I would advise you to reevaluate your load as G-man recommended. Not enough data to really be conclusive at this point...
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If you buy in bulk, you would be better off buying jacketed bullets instead of plated bullets. I did buy some Zero 165 JHP to try out and I just didn't like them enough to switch. I'm going back to 180 MG CMJ.
If you do decide to buy plated bullets, check out Powder Valley Inc for good prices. They don't include shipping but the shipping is very reasonable. Good luck...
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Plated bullets may be okay for plinking or practice but that's all I would recommend them for, especially for the casual shooter. The reason they recommend lead data is because they are thin plated over lead so they have about the same properties as lead bullets versus jacketed bullets. Here are a few posts about plated bullets:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=116238&hl=%20plated%20%20rainier%20&st=0
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In a mixed batch of range brass you will have some samples that will be bulging too much near the bottom. When you size them, in some cases the die will push the material down. Your pictures show very benign case of that. In one batch of 1000 I threw out about fifty cases that produced much worse rings than you are getting. What you got I would still use.
Don't use the U die unless you absolutely must - which is almost never. The cases are stressed during the sizing enough as it is, and I have NEVER had a problem with using the regular dies. Giving each case more stress, due to more severe sizing, makes no sense at all - you will just wear out them sooner. I would not do it "just in case".
Robot,
Yeah, I agree with Foxbat about the cases - I too get the same thing sometime (in 9mm and .40) and I would use those cases in your pics. Of course that's for practice but I would use them.
On the U-die, I'm a die hard fan of them. I use to have so many 40 cases that would not drop free in the chamber and after going to the U-die, cases feel like rain! It got to where I don't drop my rounds before each monthly match now and I don't have feeding problems. If they make it through the U-die (barring some extreme case head issue), then they should be good. I have never used the U-die in .38 Super though. Keep an open mind and see what you come up with.
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lots of matches prohibit major pf
Really? I havent seen that and thats not part of the rules. Only rule close to that is that no magnum calibers are allowed. In fact, lots of steel matches allow pistol caliber carbines and they can really get velocities up there. Dont mean to get off topic, just a point and hope this helps with the pistol choice.
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Got my new,old, speer 10 book. One really interesting load stood out. We all know the properties of Blue Dot and AA7. AA7 is listed as a slightly slower powder than Blue Dot and is one of the best powders for heavy loads for 9mm. The book states that the maximum loads do not exceed 35,700 cup which equal to our present day +p max. They list the following load:
125 gr JSP
8.8 max load of Blue Dot.
1.100 OAL
1233 fps out of a S&W 39/ 4" barrel.
Im at 8.8 of AA7 running 1163 average out of my Sig P228. My OAL is 1.158.
My Lyman 49th list the following load:
125gr JHP
7.1 max Blue Dot
1.075 OAL
1163 fps from 4" universal receiver
32,400 cup
Interesting stuff, just thought i would share. Any luck on that load data gng?
Sorry, got off work really late and just got home from other stuff I had to do. I will post it tomorrow or Sunday. One comment about Blue Dot - I used it for years in my 9x21 and 38 SC. It is easy to get going, not too bad on recoil but it is so dirty and so much smoke (comparatively) compared to some of the more popular powders here on the forum. It's also very easy to load and work with - I just wanted something cleaner and less smoke. You know how it is, always searching for the "magic bullet"...
I guess the old guy thing is kicking in on me , just do not understand the ultralight gun thing. 
weird hs-6 chorny results
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted · Edited by gng4life
I'm going to be loading up some WAC and HS6 this week and trying them out.
Just being curious, I searched the forums for some HS-6 loads and came up with several results. Instead of posting links, I copied the info and put it all in a text file. This is not my load data, just a collection from the forum and others I've talked to so please proceed with caution anytime you are reloading.
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Tried an HS6 load the other day. 8.2gr under a 121IFP at 1.150" OAL, Fed SPP. It got me to 165.1PF and was much nicer than the WSF loads. That last WSF load I tried chronoed at 172.6PF and was still flippy.
With the HS6 load, the triangle in my deltapoint just kissed the top before it came down. Next I'll try 8.4gr and 8.6gr.
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I ran 7.8gr of HS6 under a 124 MG JHP and got around 167pf out of a G17 KKM barrel and Jager Comp.
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I use 8.5 grains of HS-6 with the 121's and an OAL of 1.170". It gives a 171PF in a shorty 9mm. Thanks, Eric
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I use 8.2 to get to 170 PF @ 1.165 w/ 124's - start at 7.8 and work it up.
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I hear 8.4 H6 1.190 is soft and great load!
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My Open G17 loads OAL is 1.155-1.160 Lone Wolf barrel, mixed brass.
8-8.1 grains HS-6 makes major nicely. Zero issues after ~4000 rounds to date.
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8.3gr of HS-6 under a 124gr Montana Gold at 1.170" gives me 171pf out of a 5" AET barrel with no holes.
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Adding my load data with HS-6 on a 32 F day with 4.8" barrel (4.25" to the comp), 124 CMJ, 1.164"
Powder High Low 10rd avg
8.0 gr 1381 fps 1337 fps 1351 fps
8.2 gr 1410 fps 1373 fps 1391 fps
8.4 gr 1432 fps 1390 fps 1422 fps
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Interesting numbers. I just did an HS6 Test last week at about 60f. Oal was 1.165 MTG 124gr CMJ, 5" barrel with Dawson DP-2 ConeComp, the Barrel is a Clark with round count at 1425.
10 rd Average -
7.7gr of HS6 with CCI Small Pistol Magnum Primer Avg 1403 FPS ES 5 SD 2. The ES and SD are phenominal. 174pf
7.9gr of HS6 with Win Small Pistol Primer Avg 1338 fps ES 40 SD 13 The ES and SD are typical. 166pf
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Ten shot strings out of a full size gun with no barrel holes. The powders I used were HS-6 and AutoComp seated with MG 124gr JHP loaded to 1.170.
HS-6 Avg velocity. PF
7.9 1358.5 168.5
8.1 1391.3 172.5
AutoComp
6.8 1367.3 169.5
6.9 1380.5 171.2
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5" 2011 9mm at 1.170" w/124 CMJ, comp only, no hybrid holes
9-May 78° F
Powder weight ave FPS ave PF
Longshot 7.6 1,332 165
20-Jun 93° F
Powder weight ave FPS ave PF
HS-6 7.6 1,329 165
HS-6 7.7 1,347 167
HS-6 7.8 1,365 169
HS-6 7.9 1,402 174
HS-6 8.0 1,406 174
HS-6 8.1 1,413 175
n350 7.4 1,384 172
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124gr Zero JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.1gr 1301 1362 1337.8 165.8 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes, fsp primer
124gr Zero JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.4gr 1330 1392 1355 168 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes, fsr primer
124gr Zero JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 7.8gr 1254 1306 1283 159.1 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes, fsp primer
124gr Zero JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.5gr 1354 1397 1380.8 171.2 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes, fsr primer
124gr JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.2gr 1283 1355 1322.7 164 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes,cci primer
124gr JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.2gr 1328 1370 1347 167 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes, fsp primer
124gr JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.2gr 1355 1405 1382 171.3 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes, fsr primer
124gr Star FMJ 1.175" 5" Hodgdon HS-6 7.8gr 1658 1369 1364 170.5 From: spd522 5" para STI trubore S2
125gr Zero JHP 1.150" 5.4" Hodgdon HS-6 8.1gr 1365 170.6 From: DaG 5.4" KKM bbl. No ports, Bedell TI comp
125gr Zero JHP 1.150" 5.1" Hodgdon HS-6 8.5gr 1300 1376 1329 166 From: Eric Nielsen 3tj holes,cci primer
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So yeah, your HS-6 loads look pretty low compared to most of the world. Probably the powder since everything else seems on par. I'll post mine up also when I get finished it. Please post your WAC results if you decide to try more load variations. Thanks