Norm Lee

5 GMs! Is this one gonna count as a classifier? OK looks to me like Stage 4 is pony Express, 5 is War Wagon, 6 is Outlaw Hideout and 7 will be the locally world famous Out of the Badlands. Which ones are 1, 2, 3? Just need to load up another 100o rounds tonight and function test the 40! Cheers, Norm Still think there's room for some stars

Hey Newbie: 3.9 of N310 under any of the bullets you have will make a nice light target load. Accurate, good for steel. You may need to use a lighter recoil spring. 4.4 or 4.5 grains of N310 should make major with the 200 grain bullets. If you want to use the 185s, you'll need 892 fps. You'll need to use a chrono to work up. Cheers, Norm

Tightloop: It's not true that dirt was new when I was a boy. I guess it was still a bit of a novelty, though cause some of my classmates graduated in soil mechanics

Hey Jeeper: Got some suggestions for your stage. Looks pretty neat as designed but you maybe didn't know we've got some pretty special targets available for the rack. The Bermuda Triangle: bullets approaching one of these have been observed to depart from the Newtonian Frame. Uncalled, unexplained misses are the norm. This target was pulled from the American Handgunner match in 2000. I think the reason was funny physics. The pesky popper: Looks like a regular popper at 100 yds. 'nuff said. The killer Bee: Same size as the B-zone on the metric target. You pick 'em. I can help. Cheers, Norm Then there's a bowling pin, a stop sign, ....

It's me. At Bend in ought two

I just want to clarify that I merely suggested a stirling alternative. Don't want anyone to think I had developed a star-phobia. That plate rack (or 2) might be a real neat idea (having reflected on the notion some more) Hey Jeeper, I can help. We've got more than 50 yards of reset rope. Does that suggest a possibility? Cheers, Norm

There were 2 stars on a stage at A4 a couple years back. Star and a couple paper through one door and the same set up through the neighboring door. Pretty cool. At the last Carter Martin there were stars on two stages. On one stage there were 2, set up to rotate in opposite directions when activated. Lots of ways to try to shoot those. The stage ended with a hammer. PSC has a star; BAPS has one; Greenwood has one, SETPS has one with a wicked extra arm for hanging a boat anchor and one from Night Owls. We could prolly set a record 5 on a single stage. Of course you risk having the villagers coming after you with torches lit and blood in their eyes. Maybe we could work in a couple low ports? Jeeper, I can help. Norm

Hey Vincent: I think the cut-off is probably around 150. Not sure why I think that though. I think you did pretty well to go from Unclas to B right off. Jeeper's the only other guy I've seen manage that (and he's a first class sandbagger who just happened to get caught) You not only had some crappy conditions to contend with but at least one of your classifers is the one from heck. (Or at least belongs to the class of the few so labeled.) Hey Jeeper: I know where we can get 2 Texas Stars and options on two more if you're still stuck for ideas. Cheers, Norm

Hey Jeeper: Let me help. How about 2 plate racks. First string one rack freestyle, one rack SHO? Second string freestyle one rack then WHO for the other. 5 plates per rack, revolver friendly. Vincent Welcome to B limited (Killer Bees) Hope to see y'all there but haven't got confirmation yet. Cheers, Norm Lee: there are some other spelling mistakes on the stage descriptions, too. Guess we haven't seen the final edit.

Hey Truegent: Your question's a good one and I've given it both extensive thought and experimentation. TL and Flex have given you some good advice. Heavy (for caliber) bullets are best pushed with slow powders. When fast burning powders are used, pressure rises rapidly. If trying to move a heavy bullet, response will be slower than for a lighter one. So for the heavy bullet case, pressure can build dangerously high before the bullet moves enough to relieve the spike. That's why you should use slow burning powders with heavy bullets. And I do. When I shoot bowling pins. But for USPSA, that's another story. I'm not real quick, and when I was a kid it seemed that dirt was still a bit of a novelty, so I need any edge I can get. So I push heavy bullets with fast powders. (so many are doing it, it's not as big an advantage as I'd like.) At a given power factor, the difference in recoil has not got much to do with bullet weight. (I claim nothing) Newton's third law is what's at work and the mass times velocity product is both what determines recoil, and for the bullet, its power factor. Let's not discuss units here. The discriminator is how much other stuff besides the bullet is headed down range. In the recoil equation, it is generally agreed that the gasses developed from burning the powder are boogie-ing along at about 4000 fps. If we assume complete conversion of the powder, the other MV product contributing to the recoil is the powder mass times the 4000 fps velocity. So, if you can safely use less of a faster burning powder, the recoil will be lower than if you use a greater mass of a presumably slower powder. Cheers, Norm

Hey Gary: I'd like to make a hearty recommendation for Clark's in Louisiana. I have a 625 they've done and my bride has a 686. Triggers are sweet. Renee T. can prolly help you out. She was a big help back when we were looking for someone to machine the L frames to take moonclips. They do excellent work and the turn around was short. Cheers, Norm

Hey pmd: If you don't have the bbl which is configured for the add on comp, you might consider having it mag-na-ported. I had them do a 6" 686 for me (quad trapezoids). Was going to shoot it at second chance. Oh well. Cheers, Norm The ports are very effective.

Here's what I use on steel and for general plinking. It's a "companion" to my USPSA load; I don't need to change the sights. Precision 155 rn over 3.7 gr. N 310 OAL is about 1.153". Accurate, soft shooting. About 140 PF From my load book: 3.7+ gr. VV N 310 OAL= 155.00 gr. Precision RNL Bullet Velocity power factor 929.00 144.00 936.00 145.08 901.00 139.66 904.00 140.12 882.00 136.71 910.00 141.05 912.00 141.36 906.00 140.43 932.00 144.46 911.00 141.21 919.00 142.45 Total 10042.00 Mean 912.91 141.50 Standard deviation 15.59 Cheers, Norm

It turns out I have a pet theory, too, about recoil, both perceived and actual. Turns out I have pet theories about most things so it may be safe to quit reading about here. I subscribe to that equal and opposite thing, too. I think that means that the momentum of the stuff going downrange is going to look like recoil in the uprange direction. Heavier bullets should almost always produce lower recoil at a given power factor. I think the energy thing really just affects the recoil signature ( and may have something to do with perceived recoil) So why heavier bullets? The stuff going downrange consists of a bullet of mass M going at a velocty V appropriate to the desired PF. Along with the bullet are other ejecta, primarily a bunch of hot gas created by burning powder. So we have to add the powder (gas) momentum to get the total recoil MV + MpVp say. So if we use less powder to get the PF we need, the recoil will be lower if all else is fixed. And so there is some advantage to using a heavy bullet over small charges of powder. Discretion is warranted since heavy bullets and fast powders is edgy territory. The reason this works even though the differences in powder mass seem trivial is that the gasses are assumed to be travelling at a fairly rapid rate of Knots. Generally they are credited with moving at about 4000 fps. This makes the MpVp term significant. Cheers, Norm Try 200 gr H&G 68 SWC over 4.5 V V N310

This is a nice, accurate, soft-shooting recipe: 3.9 gr V V N310 under a precision 200gr RN (or SWC if not doing reloads ) Mean 696.13 fps 139.23 PF Standard deviation 24.10 Cheers, Norm

N320 4.8 velocity 738, SD 22 ES 54 5.2 V= 818 5.5 lowest V = 877 cheers, Norm Might need a light spring at 4.6

Hey Tightloop: 200 gr precision SWC 4.5 gr N310 171.80 PF (850.4 fps) SD= 19 fps 4.1 gr N 310 same bullet 741.1 fps SD= 19.43 (nice steel load) 3.9 gr N 310 same bullet 696.13 fps SD= 24.1 fps (great target/plinking load) OAL = 1.264" Cheers, Norm CU at the range?

Hey Jeeper: Just checked my log. I did a little work with N320 but only with 140 and 155 gr. bullets. Best SD was 12.67, worst was just over 14. I think it should settle down for you. If you've got 60 fps SD you're gonna have to go to 198 pf with a 185 to be sure you don't go minor. yahoo! Good for pins! Cheers, Norm

Hey Jeeper: Was your SD really 60 fps? I ask because your extreme spread is only 85 fps. With an SD of 60 I would have expected your ES could be as bad as 360 fps. Are you shooting 185s? Cheers, Norm

Here's a little something you can do to improve your WH performance. Results are way out of proportion to effort expended. That doesn't happen often. And it won't cost a dime. Stop cringing. No mlm pitch follows. Move your mouse over to the other side of your keyboard and drive it with your weak hand. It'll take a few days before it feels right, but when it does, your WH shooting will show an improvement. I promise. Cheers, Norm

Hey Tightloop: I think you ought to be looking for N310 I'd be willing to bet you'll find some (either one) at the gun show in Pasadena this weekend. I try to top up at a Match when the Lecks show up. Or Powder Valley if you are buying in quantity. Cheers, Norm

Hey Coach: Have a look here: http://shop.blade-tech.com/merchant.ihtml?id=15&step=2 Cheers, Norm

230 gr WC, .38 spl case, 900 fps 207 PF good for pins! Cheers, Norm

Hey Dave: Prolly can't help you with the dirt determination factor (DDF). Your own experience and the advice of others will be the yardstick there. Light loads are sometimes problematical when combustion isn't complete. In our business we generally respond "pick one" when someone says good and cheap so I won't make a powder recommendation. But perhaps I can help a little with that softness thing. Recoil, as I'm sure you know, is all part of that equal and opposite reaction and momentum balance stuff from physics class. So in one direction we've got the mass times velocity of the bullet plus the mass times velocity of the other ejecta, burning gasses and whatnot. In the other direction you have the MV of the gun and shooter. Shooter absorbs as recoil the MV of the gun which is equal to the M*V=P of the stuff going the other way. So when you have a choice of ways to make a given PF (just another measure of momentum without benefit of real units) you need to decide between a fast light projectile and a slower heavier one. Or, for a given bullet weight, whether to use less of a faster powder or more of a slower. When we look at the formulas used to actually calculate recoil we see that it's generally assumed that the powder's mass is more or less completely converted to propellant gas. Interestingly enough, the gas is assigned a velocity up around 4000 fps. Now that's enough to make even small differences in powder weight significant in terms of felt recoil. The softest shooting load for a given power factor will feature a heavy bullet propelled by the smallest safe charge of powder required to make the necessary velocity. Note the emphasis on safe. I'm not advocating Bullseye with 220 gr bullets in a .40. Cheers, Norm

Stage: 4 It's All In The Upper Zone Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg % 1 Lee, Norm 20 B Limited 75 0 14.18 5.2891 80.0000 100.00% Shot this last month. Had to concentrate so hard on the procedure it made my head ache. So many ways to mess up! Went left to right on the first string, released left hand after the shot on T4 and broke the second, swung back for T1. Thought I went too slow on the second string strong hand. It's pretty close. Last string right to left, to mirror string one. Kept wanting to stick a reload. Then I tried it with a revolver and missed a head shot on string one. Wheels fell off after that when I tried to take enough time off to compensate. Cheers, Norm