Loves2Shoot

You can take two pieces of 2" nylon webbing, 1 piece of thin plastic (plyable enough to bend around your waist 2" wide and long enough to go 3/4the way around), and 1 piece of 2" velcro. Take an industrial sewing machine and sew the thin plastic betwen the layers of webing with the hook end velcro together. Use the cloth velcro to pass between you belt loops. About $15 bucks in material. Buy the CR and you'll be much happier.

I think a lot of it depends on how "quick" people are. If someone doesn't have super speed like Jake or TJ, they loose too much time if they don't focus a bit more on getting there than getting the load done "now," as long as the load is done before they get there. I find myself doing both, depending on the situation.

Congrats!

Of course it makes a difference at some point, but to compared to actuall skill level it is minimal. And Sevegny does good when he uses a Glock in Limited also. I've seen it, it isn't anything specail at all. Actually, good stage design can nuetralize 10 versus 20 rounds advantage. You just have to focus on making good stages. I guarantee you it isn't the gear that makes any of the top shooters win. They just play with what the rules says they can, so do I. I know if you lifted the mag restriction for open there would be guys toting huge mags, and they would think it is an advantage to never do reloads. I'm saying if you want to shoot a gun for any reason then do it. If you want to get better, do it. New shooters stick around because they like to play and the feel welcome. It is the old shooters that help them by letting them know their stuff is good enough to win, not making "Special ED" places for them to play. What does that mean? Watering it down how? Personally, I think production and L10 are HARDER then the other divisions, in that it is harder for me to get the same HF. Maybe there are some people who shoot in production because they think the rest of the competitors are somewhat "weaker" and they have a better shot at prizes. But if it is all about the shooting that doesnt matter. If we compete against ourselves you can get better in any division. How is production or single stack (with which I have a beef, but not this one) watering down the sport, when the present even harder challenges due to equipement restrictions and magazine size? How is making something harder watering down the sport? I don't mean to paint you with this brush, but most of the time people who complain about to many divisions really complain that the prize table or the prize money gets split more so they get less of it while winning the class/division combo they feel comfortable in. I'm not really impressed by that argument. Good points. The more you break up the overall finish it to group, the harder it is to compared performace. 50 people at a match, 5 Div, 6 Classes, everyone wins. Throw them in the pot together it shows you more acurately where your performance is. I know this is overly simplistic, but it is getting overly complicated the way it is. If L10 is harder to score the same score, it's the stage design or reloading skill. Both can be fixed without more rules. Production, scoring less for non A hits makes sense to me because of the recoil factor, the mag placement thing is just silly IMO. I could care less about prizes, period, I would rather have reasonable match fees and good stages. Actually, I know what yo intended with the holstering bit, but not with the mag pouches bit. You would get the guy making a mag pouch on his chest or forearm, or something idiodic like that, having a rule to make people carry their gear might help shift their gear to place that make sense for them, and less rules. If he had to carry a mag in the pouch he would be less inclined to strap it to his forehead.

I we are comparing skill, fewer points for non-A hits only makes sense, it is equity in sport. But that is part of my whole point. All the breakdown of divisions and overly complicated rules is watering down the game IMO. Competition is about measuring your skill and improvement, isn't it? The gear doesn't matter a fraction of what people seem to think it does IMO. Production in USPSA/IPSC is a good thing. There are just too many people who should play in Limited if the were honest with themselves instead of range lawyering the rules so they can get (in their mind) a percieved advantage. Having new shooters see you burn down a stage with an open blaster and high zoot gear can give them the impression that it is the gear. That's why I make an effort to make sure to show them it can be done at "almost" the same speed and accuracy with vanilla el cheapo gear. Let's work to get the focus back to the shooting part of the game.

LOL Thanks for the update

Always go that route if you can

That means you can just spend some more effort at matches lighting fires under the new guys, talking about the "good ole days" and giving them something to aspire to

OK, I'm not really looking to start a new sport!!! I just think there could be some BIG benefits to "simplifying things" in USPSA. Why have a holster retension test if we don't use it? It had a good enough purpose at one time to be logged as a rule, and I heard a friend of a friend of a friend say he had to do one once. Sort of like goverment, building rules on rules for rules sake makes no sense to me. If I'm not totally out to lunch, verdict is still out on that, maybe it is time to reduce the # of pages in the rule book. I'd be willing to help. I can understand simple.

Exactly way too complicated, sort of like spinning props Simple can be better.

Many shooters prove their is no "right" only the path you follow.

Classes are just meant to make people "feel good." Your personal performance is all that matters, and it only matters to you. This helps me, 'cause I used to worry about it too, now I don't care. I shoot better now too, go figure.

The only "real difference" between limited and production guns is minor, 10 rounds, and a mag well (and no 1911 guns, which is just dumb with the XD legal, Rich and I can put a trigger on an XD that breaks as good or better than most 1911's.) The rest of the "restrictions" don't really matter much IMO. Just makes enforcement overly complicated and hard to enforce. What is hard so about: Open= Whatever the heck you want, period. I would love to see people toting around 50 round mags because they think it would give them an advantage. Limited - (pick a #) rounds, no optics, no comps, 500 made min .40 cal major (for all the obvious reasons.) Production rules = Any gun 10 rounds, scores minor, no mag well. (Rich and many Glock armorers will make your gun worth $1500+ if you want so the cost thing don't hold water to me.) L10 - (same as L with 10 rounds) Revolver - Who cares, they are nuts anyways let them police themselves. (just joking) I have never had the need to read any of the revolver stuff so can't comment on that. SS - (provisional class) Don't care, those guys should be allowed to shoot minor in production or major in L 10.

Actually, I think that is false thinking. I've won with super basic equiptment against A and B class open shooters, and so does Dave Sevigny. High zoot equiptment doesn't win matches period. Hell, I've been shooting a SS lately and with decent stage design it isn't slower at all. I have lots of high zoot equiptment too, and it doesn't make me faster, or shoot straighter. Hundreds of thousands of rounds downrange tells me I can't shoot significantly faster/straighter with $3000 limited gun than a stock 1911. I like USPSA, but I live in a small market, the problem is with all the different divisions/classes, everyone gets a ribbon (so we stopped giving them out because that had no meaning.) Everyone's a winner, yeaaaaa. One weekend a month we hold a match we call a "steel" shoot. IPSC like, but with all steel targets and time + misses is how it's scored. With small clubs in remote areas, USPSA matches are too expensive, and we have the steel match to be able to afford the USPSA matches. I would much rather USPSA re-think the all inclusive approach. If you wanted a Production class, have GLOCK, Springfield, CZ and others who want to, pay for the USPSA exposure and sanctioning of approved production guns. Have a $300-500 gun for the class, no mods period. I do think the no classification for major matches and you prize within the percentages is a valid idea, we're going to do that at a local level for non-IPSC matches, it would help balance out the Foreign shooters also that aren't classed appropriately at big matches. People just need to know the truth, that skill wins matches, not high zoot gear. It's cool and I'll buy more (because too me it's something I enjoy) but not because it will make me better. I will gladly be a USPSA member for a long time to come. It just seems the rules and divisions have gotten out of hand and is HURTING the sport. How much does holster position, mag position, relieving hot spots on sharp edges really matter when it comes down to it. IMO not much. USPA has just gotten too complicated in some ways, but in others it still the best sport there is. Just trying to get ideas to keep people coming back. I agree 100%, but you can't get away from some of the MD's putting their own take on things. Most are some of the best guys I've known. Any shooting sport with Tactical in the name... ... not for me... I just like shooting accurately at speed, so I would probably shoot it anyways

Stop the insanity please! How about all the common safety rules. A holster retension test at the start of every match. Who cares where you place your holtser and mags, you just have all the pouches full (the entire match) and the gun holstered (the entire match) as long as it doesn't break the 180 on the draw. All stages are comstock, no more than 6 shots required per position, no "targets that spin in a circle.) All stages are a minimum of 18 rounds and there are no stages requiring "strings" or timed fire. There are two divisions Optics and Irons. Optics, anything goes. Irons 18 round limit in mags unless banned by law (then 10 rounds apply) and no compensators. Major an minor apply, .38 cal or larger (Optics and Irons.) Class is determined by overall finsh percentage (how about that as a way to ruin sandbaggers day.) Classes are M- 85%+ A - 75%-84.9% B- 60%-74.9% C- 45%-59% D - below 45% Sound like fun anyone? Feel free to add your thoughts

Simple. Ban replacement guide-rods. Ban milling slides for adjustable sights. Ban the replacement of barrles. I can see all these mods from the outside. There is no consistancy here. Catch 22 there, then Joe Schmo can't "upgrade" his stock XXXX to the wiz bang $1500 "production model" the factory offers as he can afford it. It is on the right track though. Maybe an approved list is on the way if thing keep heading the way they are.

Um' especially in Glock, they can't not work right? Just ask Flex I think the biggest problem is that this is a game, and games have to have rules. The division was meant to be box stock gun from the sounds of it. People are prone to tweak, polish, and modify so it seems a compromise was made to allow the common modifications that are made by shooters without dumping into Limited territory (sights, trigger, guide rod.) The wording allowed other things ($130-300 triggers, internal lightening, ect.) There has to be a point you have to say no or what is the point of the division? Newbies will "think" they have to pay $1000+ for a production gun and all the mods to compete (this we know is false, Dave Sevigny prives the point well.) If you're pissed you paid $300 for a trigger and it was never legal, then that's fine, just use it in the division it's legal. If you want to shoot production, just accept you have to use an approved trigger, they're cheap, and actually work ok with some polishing. You will also set a good example for the new guys who can't dump a $300 in a trigger in a $350-450 gun. Just my 2 cents. ps. Gary is right IMO if not so popular. I wasn't happy when they came out with the " eally extended" slide stop release and I rushed out and bought one and then found out it never was legal for Limited.

$$$ .223 is much cheaper. The difference in recoil between a .223 and a .308 = .22 and a .45 in pistols IMO.

It isn't a big deal to swap out the ejector either.

Ok go figure. Left eye with the triangle from the lap, with the tubes and finger I see two that are about as clear so my mind says pick the left one. Maybe I've just been shooting too long and I am left dominant, but my mind refuses to accept it and just picks the left picture. Interesting stuff.

Jim, I think the tough part is rewarding per stage versus per shot. It really doesn't work in the speed stages because it put a huge emphasis on them. All Jake has to do is burn down a 'el Pres shoot in 3.5 and he just gained 30 match points instead 18 over the guy who cleaned it in 5 seconds for 6 shots. It isn't a fair reward/penalty.

The biggest advantage I see is the reloading cost, 9mm will be cheaper to practice with IF you have one. Shooting irons, you could have a 9mm upper fit and save some $ over a full gun.

OK Ivan, you got me all messed up now with the triangle thing. If I center it in the triangle it is not in the center when I close either eye. It is a bit off to either side. The pointing thing generally works pretty well, I see two fingers I just pick the one on the left and that's my right eye. Having a shifting dominance can have it's advantage though. I've been experimenting with no tape with limited sights, and it's working ok. On tight shots I close the left eye a bit now, but on the big targets it is like having a new perspective in 3d. It takes way more concentration, and the sight picture isn't as clear and distinct and it is taped so I am not confident in it yet, but it is fun to see something differently for a change.

If you're shooting for the "stuff," get out now. Seriously with the classification system, the winner of any given class most generally should be classified in the next highest class, and the random prize table approach doesn't reward shooting performance, but is a support the masses approach. Both are fine by me because I just love to shoot, and plaques/trophies have little value to me anymore. Just beware, have fun!

That would be sweet. It isn't too late to machine them in. That would be awsome, paint them in for sure if you don't machine them in.