Joe D

Larry, not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying that the PF has no bearing on how hard or easy a gun is to shoot? You may be right. I seem to shoot my G35 just as well with my 168-170 PF IPSC load as I do with my 140-145 PF IDPA load. I looked at last years Nationals. Low time was Dave Sevigny at 173.29 SSP, Matt Burkett was next in ESP at 187.97 followed by Earnest Langdon at 189.62 in CDP. Dave shoots a Glock 34. I think he shoots a 147 gr. load by Triton or Atlanta Arms. Matt Burkett shoots what appears to be a 9mm SVI 2011 widebody. Earnest shot that 15 lb. Sig. Dave shoots in a universe that us mortals can only dream about. I think course design should be as neutral as possible. Everyone should have a reload. I try to have stages with at least 12 rounds, but no more than 17. I think it is best to avoid having a stage with 10 or 11 rounds. Either do 9 or less or 12 or more.

Maybe Larry, but when I see guys shooting 9mm and .40 1911s at a 126 PF it makes me wonder. These guns have no recoil. Joe

Larry, I certainly don't know any of the Big Dawgs that shoot full power loads. I admit I very rarely shoot my carry gun (Glock23) in competition. When I do I use my normal IPSC Major load and carry holster. I normally shoot a Glock35 at a 140-145 PF. I have seen some shoot a gun that while legal should not be allowed in IDPA. Once again thanks to the moderators for keeping this thread open as it has had some really good and lively discussions.

John, there are two shooters I take my hat off to. One is an IDPA shooter in Atlanta, Lester R. and the other is a guy here in Alabama named Rory. Lester and Rory both shoot full power factory .45ACP loads from true carry rigs. I have accused Lester of not having a holster, but a skin flap that he puts his 1911 in. His draw is very fast. Rory uses a Commander or smaller sized 1911 for IDPA. There is another Al. shooter, Larry, that I would want on my side in a gun fight. He is a left handed shooter that uses a true left handed 1911. He is very, very fast out of the holster. Once again he uses a real carry holster.

Last Saturday one of my friends and I were going over some of the things we needed to look out for as ROs at the upcoming Al. State Championship Match. He stated one of the things was a ghost reload. First time I had ever heard of that. Guess I lead a sheltered life. He explained that some guys from South America had used it during the Fla. Match and were DQ'd as they should have been. If you use a hi-cap I will check your mag before you put it in your gun on my stage. If you use a hi-cap mag to avoid the Barney Mag issue then you probably should show the RO at each stage your mag has 11 rounds in it. USPSA's original Production class rule did not allow the use of any mag that would hold over 10 rounds. They have since changed that rule to read something like "No mag can have more that 10 rounds in it after the start command". They probably should have left the rule like it was. Duane, they can be used, but only with 11 rounds to start a stage with. Does away with the Barney mag. It is a time saver at the "Load and make ready" point. Larry, wish I could do a TL. I have too many thumbs. I have some friends that can do a RWR in under 2 sec. Mine run in the 2.1 - 2.3 range during a match even if I stow the mag in my belt rather than a pocket. Guess I need to lose some weight. I wish they would get rid of the "speed reload" rule. I have found myself in the position of being at cover with one round left in my gun and needing to do a reload. So I have to remove the tactically useless empty mag and stow it to complete my reload. Dumb rule. I think in the real world we would all just drop that mag and stick in another. The very first paragraph in the LGB states "Defensive Pistol shooting as a sport is quite simply the use of practical equipment including full charge service ammunition to solve simulated real world self-defense scenarios." Two things stand out in that paragraph, "real world" and "full charge service ammo". OK time to come clean. How many of us that shoot a .40 in SSP or ESP use "full charge service ammo"? Does that make all of us that don't shoot a .40 at a 165 PF "gamers". Most, if not all .40 "full charge service ammo" is at least a 165 PF. I have pushed for years to have different PFs per caliber or have major and minor scoring in IDPA. Now let me apologize to the moderators for drifting this post off it's original subject. I think most of the topics touched on were good. BTW one more thing that should not be allowed is letting a shooter fill up his hi-cap mag during the Classifier Match to make the stages run faster. This is adding weight to the gun which is not legal.

I doubt it would even be a 1 sec. advantage. A good RWR can be done in 2.1-2.3 seconds with cover.

Scandog, as the rules are written, as dumb as this one is, he has to retain his empty mag. Maybe he should have fired another round onto a target. Nope can't do that he might be accused of dumping rounds. I have asked IDPA HQ more than once about what is the correct, real world way to handle this exact same situation. In the real world I am going to leave that empty mag and stick a full one in. IDPA is supposed to be about real world situations.

Ron, my very first post on this thread was to do two things, get a little "rise" out of some of the Bill Wilson faithful followers and secondly to point out the unenforceability (is that a word?) of some of the rules. As stated before it is impossible to enforce the extra shot/dumping rule. Why have a rule that cannot be enforced? I was asked by the area rep. for some input on the new LGB. This was one of the rules, IMO, that needed to be deleted.

I have shot both a 9mm SA and a .40 Kimber in IDPA. The .40 Kimber just seemed to shoot a little softer and be more reliable than the 9mm SA. I used some cheap KRD .45 mags that would hold 10 rounds of .40 and still fit into the box. I think there is little, if any, advantage starting a stage with an even number of rounds in the gun. I thought back over the last couple of matches I shot and 99% of the stages had either 2 to the body 1 to the head, a popper in the first mag, stage that required only 6 in the gun or a specified tac/RWR reload. There have been too many stages that I was glad I had that one more round at the end of the stage. SgtGlock, if that is what a "ghost reload" is then the person should have been DQ, not just given a FTDR. Maybe IDPA should not allow hi-cap mags to be used. If only 10 rounders were allowed then no ghost reloads could occur. The downside is some Glock 10 rd mags make it very difficult for those stages where you start with the gun on a table with the mag in, but nothing in the chamber. It is almost impossible to rack the slide. Mark, I think that "certain someone" got his ego bruised when she ignored his flirts and did not "fawn" over him like most of the other females have. The alleged ghost reload issue has been resolved. Did not happen.

OK, I am stupid. Just what is a ghost reload?

Duane, I feel that the LGB could be shortened if it did not go into such lengthly explanations of everything. Do away with that long list of holsters. One small paragraph could cover what is legal.

I guess what I am trying to say is the dumping round rule is one that should be done away with. It is impossible to say a shooter was dumping if he fired one extra round. Obviously firing two, three or four extra rounds on one target is clearly a case for dumping. You negate any advantage gained by firing three or four extra rounds anyway.

IMO our extra shot discussion will never be answered until Bill Wilson loses some of his anti-IPSC phobia and decides to come up with a more precise and shorter LGB. I do tend to agree with most of the principles of IDPA, some I think are a little on the absurd side. Take out all of the anti-IPSC statements. They use up space without adding anything. The last two posts were good examples of conflicting rules. Ron, if you looked back at the last dozen or so matches I SOed you would probably see that I handed out just as many, if not more procedurals than the other SOs. Heck, I have given my wife several and probably score her tougher than the other shooters. You should hear some of her comments on the way home from a match. Calling Dru can sometimes be a waste of time. For two or more years the Seattle Slug was not legal for ESP, now it is. I have her email. At first it was considered to be just something to add weight. It was pointed out by me and a host of others that as long as the gun did not weigh more than 43 oz. any mag well should be legal, regardless of material, as long as it fits into the box. The exception being tungsten. Ron, you appear to be like one of my IDPA shooting friends in Atlanta. Bear in mind what I am saying is not being critical, just an observation. Mark would really get up tight when I would ask him questions about a stage. I would want clarification about a portion of a stage. Yes, I was looking for a way to "game" the stage. Mark is a strict rule follower. He wants everyone to shoot the stage exactly the same. I am looking for a better/faster way to shoot the stage.

Ron, downloading a mag will get you a 3 second penality on my squad the first time. Do it again and you get a FTDR. As I said earlier I would never give someone a penality for shooting one extra round at a target. Two or more will get you a penality. Perfect example was last Sat. at the SCSSA match. Guy on my squad shot three rounds on a target that only required two. His first two shots were touching. He thought he had a miss and made up a shot. I don't think any SO, with just a touch of common sense, would issue a penality. I certainly did not. I am open to an explanation as to just how an SO could determine if one extra shot was done just to get to slide lock. If a shooter's first two shots are a 0 and a -1 and he puts another round into the target all he has to say is he was trying to made up the -1. Even if both were 0s he could say he thought he had a bad sight picture on one of the shots and put another round in the target to make sure. Maybe I am too lax when I run a squad, I don't think so. I don't try and nit pick the shooters to death. I want to be fair and consistent. Quickest way to run shooters off is to be a Range Nazi.

I have never given anyone a FTDR for putting an additional round into a target. Putting more than one down range is stretching it though. I am such a poor shooter that most of my targets will have a -3 or mike to make up. The other problem is some of my loads do not go through the cardboard. Dimpled hits don't count. I guess one day I will start putting powder in my loads.

I want as many rounds as I can get in the gun. I normally shoot ESP with a Glock 35 and like the fact that I can start a stage with 11 in the gun. If I shoot a stage that has 5 targets that get 2 each, then a reload and more targets I just put 3 rounds in one of the first 5 targets. Takes all of .16 seconds for the third round.

The plug is pretty easy to remove and replace. I use a long shank drill bit and just tap it out, insert the spring and tap the plug back in with a hammer.

Ghost, both of the Northpass/Hi-viz front sights are the same as the factory front - .160". I like the new overmolded model as the tubes tend to break in the original. The new model comes in two dot diameters .150" and .100". They are available from www.brownells.com. Goalie, I will check in my sight drawer. I may still have it.

If you will look at 1* first post he expressed a fear he has about firing his G22 with the unsupported chamber. I was attempting to put aside those fears by explaining that Glocks do not blow up any more often than other guns. There are just a lot more Glocks out there.

Come on Cy you need to chime in here. I feel like the Lone Ranger defending Glocks against the Great Unwashed Masses.

Forgot to mention Mr. Speir is well known as a Glock hater. I put little faith in anything he has to say or report. Eric, I guess you are talking about .40 and larger cases. I buy my brass from Brassman. Most of it has been fired through Glocks. I have never had a problem sizing the cases. I do not have special dies, just standard RCBS in my 550. The only brass I have had a problem with looked to have been fired in a Sig. They are so oversize that the case looks like a belted case when I size it.

Let's see I have seen a Sig, Les Baer 1911, Ruger .44 Super Blackhawk and a Mod 29 Smith blow up. I found the remains of a .40 case at the range last week that was blown up. Guess what the firing pin mark was round. I think if we looked closer at the instances of Glocks blow ups we would find in 99.99% of the time it was ammo related. I have been around some of the LE experts and came away underimpressed. The range in Atlanta that I used has numerous Glocks in their rental fleet. I have seen Glock 22s with over 300,000 rounds through them. You would think if there was an issue with kabooms it would occur there. BTW 90% of the ammo used in them is reloaded by Atlanta Arms. Most Glock kabooms were seen by someone's uncle, whose friend's brother heard about it from his cousin, whose dad saw it happen.

First there is no such thing as a fully supported barrel. I fire thousands of rounds of reloaded .40 through my stock barrel. Most of my brass has been shot through a Glock. Then again what do I know? I shoot lead bullets through a stock Glock barrel. I find a lot less leading in the stock barrel than I do in an aftermarket barrel. The barrel manufacturers have made a lot of profit with the unsupported chamber/lead bullet myths. Keep your stock barrel.

Jeremiah, my reply was to Oddjob. He indicated that he was thinking about having a 9mm built. Yes, I do prefer to shoot a .40 in a 1911 platform rather than a 9mm. I load my .40 out to 1.200" OAL with a 180 gr bullet. It feeds flawlessly. I have never had a problem with a bullet locking back the slide in my Kimber .40. I don't shoot a 1911 in competition any longer. I have found that I shoot a G35 much faster and more accurately.

Stryfox, I was told by a person at IDPA HQ that some of the modifications and perhaps some of the guns might not be legal when the new LGB comes out. IDPA really does not want their game to become an equipment race like IPSC did. I think the SVI/STI guns may be a little too gamey for them. Remember IDPA is about what you would carry in the real world. I don't think too many people carry one of the SVI guns in the real world. I have been waiting on one of the BUL M5s to become available in .40. Same type of gun as the STI/SVI, but a 1/3 of the cost. I think I am going to wait until the new rule book comes out.