Horus scopes and reticles

[rstimpfling]

I am starting to build a precision AR in .308 for long range competition shooting. I have been talking to friend who is active duty military about scopes. He told me that the Special Ops community is using the Horus reticles to some extent. In particular the H37 reticles for scopes and the H32 for a spotting scope. I am wondering if anyone has used or looked at these reticles specifically and also the Horus scopes.

I am on a bit of a budget for this build. I know the rule is to get the best glass you can afford. I am budgeting between $1500.00 and $2000.00 for the scope purchase. I am new at this, so any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Tom Freeman]

Horus reticles are ok. The lines can be a bit heavy when your scope power is turned up to the higher powers.

As far as Horus scopes go, run away. Now.

[FB3GDQ]

they are pretty good some people say they are busy, but I like mine. I have been running the falcon (H27 reticule) for a few years and have had no problems with it.

[Religious Shooter]

I have two Horus scopes ("cheapies") and a Horus reticle (H38?) in an SN3 3.8-22X.

Personally I wouldn't spend $1500 on a Horus brand scope. The two Horus scopes I have were on closeout and they were like $300-$400. I wouldn't trust the tracking on the scopes that I have. But then again they really aren't made for a lot of knob turning.

My main beef in spending real $$$ on a Horus brand scope is the awful warranty. Horus' warranty is only for one year. Scopes will break. I can stomach a one year warranty on a $300-400 scope. But a one year warrant on an $800-$1500 scope... no thanks.

After getting the H38 I'd caution you in getting an offset Horus reticle. If you are required to do any side prone shots the POI won't be in the grid and you can't see your hits with an offset reticle at high magnification.

[pjb45]

Can't you get the reticles in other brands of scopes?

[FB3GDQ]

Can't you get the reticles in other brands of scopes?

Yes you can get the reticule in other brad scopes.

[FB3GDQ]

I have two Horus scopes ("cheapies") and a Horus reticle (H38?) in an SN3 3.8-22X.

Personally I wouldn't spend $1500 on a Horus brand scope. The two Horus scopes I have were on closeout and they were like $300-$400. I wouldn't trust the tracking on the scopes that I have. But then again they really aren't made for a lot of knob turning.

My main beef in spending real $$$ on a Horus brand scope is the awful warranty. Horus' warranty is only for one year. Scopes will break. I can stomach a one year warranty on a $300-400 scope. But a one year warrant on an $800-$1500 scope... no thanks.

After getting the H38 I'd caution you in getting an offset Horus reticle. If you are required to do any side prone shots the POI won't be in the grid and you can't see your hits with an offset reticle at high magnification.

I don't think they make an H 38 reticule I just got on their web site and could not find one anywhere (http://www.horusvision.com/reticles.php). I have three Horus Vision scope on different rifles and have not had any problems with the scopes. I have a very old falcon With H25 reticule on a 308. I also have the Black Bird with the H58, and the talon scope and all of them work great for me. I am sorry to hear that you don't like them.

[Religious Shooter]

I don't think they make an H 38 reticule I just got on their web site and could not find one anywhere (http://www.horusvision.com/reticles.php). I have three Horus Vision scope on different rifles and have not had any problems with the scopes. I have a very old falcon With H25 reticule on a 308. I also have the Black Bird with the H58, and the talon scope and all of them work great for me. I am sorry to hear that you don't like them.

The H38 is the reticle that USO offers on their mid power (22X) SN3. Go to Google and enter "Horus H-38" and you will get hits. It's just like the H37 in Horus' website.

[Religious Shooter]

http://www.wesfire.com.au/suppliers/pdfs/horus/2006_tactical_line_reticles.pdf

And it's not really the scopes that I don't like. Like I said, I have two of them.

It's the warranty that I don't like.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Religious Shooter

[M ammo]

I'm going to Give Horus a go,,

with my lr 308 in a persision mode,

working Drops is what I do for 3 gun.

So working drops, is on the same mind set. as 3 gun. in a way,,

and it keeps me away from knob twisting

Jim M ammo

[rstimpfling]

So what would the best option to the Horus scope with an H37 reticle in the $1500 to $2000 price range?

[M ammo]

I'm going with the HAWK with the Reticle: H425

I like the Demo they have,, so you can play with the Ret,,, and see how it works,,

http://www.horusvision.com/hawk.php

demo is on the bottom of the page,,,

at $550 I like it more!!

[trickpony]

Although not a high power scope I've got a Horus Talon 1-4 with the H50 retical and love it. It's great for those of us who want a value scope with good glass. I like it most for the accuracy at distance I am able to achieve. Now if I had $1900 laying around for an optic I might try the new Swaro but the Horus is great for under $700 new. I'm going to try the Blackbird next year and see how a 1.5-8 feels in 3-Gun.

[M ammo]

Reticle's with the drops in them are here to stay, as we see many doing.

If you are a scope company and you are not making one,

you are on the way to the Dodo bird. and fast.

jim M ammo

[FB3GDQ]

Although not a high power scope I've got a Horus Talon 1-4 with the H50 retical and love it. It's great for those of us who want a value scope with good glass. I like it most for the accuracy at distance I am able to achieve. Now if I had $1900 laying around for an optic I might try the new Swaro but the Horus is great for under $700 new. I'm going to try the Blackbird next year and see how a 1.5-8 feels in 3-Gun.

I have been running the Black Bird this past 3 gun season and I really like it. I placed second at MGM Iron Man in scope tac and 1st at MS 3gun with the scope.

There are a few things that you will like a lot better than the talon when you switch. The H58 reticule is a lot finer that the H50 witch you run in your talon. You will be able to get a lot better zero. Also you will be able to use the A trag system to it's full potential. You will have plenty of power for all of the long range targets. Also if you chose to use the scope latter on a different rifle it is not a BDC reticule so you can find exact dope for any bullet and any caliber.

There is also some things that I also was not crazy about with the scope too. With the cross hair so fine at 1.5 power some people have complained about not being able to see the reticule that well at 30 yards and closer. With a little practice though you will get used to it very quickly. Also at 1.5 power with really close targets can be a big issue so I mounted so 45 degree off set iron sights for targets 20ish yards and in. This has worked out great for me. The illuminated reticule is really just for low light.

There are a lot of scopes out there to look at, and at the end of the day it really depends on what the shooter is comfortable with. For me the Horus Black Bird with the H58 reticule is one of the best scopes out there for someone with a budget, and if I had the money to get any scope on the market I would only get one if I could get a Horus reticule in the scope.

[FB3GDQ]

So what would the best option to the Horus scope with an H37 reticle in the $1500 to $2000 price range?

I would go with the Falcon with the H37 reticule. In the H37 reticule starting at the 6 mill line (2 mills in form center) you will notice the number 6 in the reticule. Also every even mill line past the 6 mill line ( 6 mill, 8 mill, 10 mill) you will see the mill line number this is to help the shooter reference what mill he or she wants to hold on with out having to look to the side of the reticule. This is a great feature they have put into the reticule that helps the shooter not break cheek stock position at all.

I have a much older Falcon with the H25 reticule and the scope has not failed me yet, and there is no dialing so the shooter gets to spend a lot more time just milling, reading wind, and shooting.

I hope this helps you out with your decision. As you might be able the tell english is my second language I live in KY.

[Nate]

I have an H2 from many years ago. It requires a 20 minute base and has not only the busy MOA but a range finding insert on the upper left, all in the second plane. It sat in the safe for 10 years and I just mounted it on a 308. Update me when you give it a go.

[sideshowbob]

So what would the best option to the Horus scope with an H37 reticle in the $1500 to $2000 price range?

I am have been interested in Horus reticles as well. The consensus is to stay away from Horus branded scopes. Of the major manufacturers: Leupold, US Ooptics, S&B, and Nightforce offer Horus reticles in their scopes. There might be more, I am not sure.

For your price range, you should probably go with a Leupold or a Nightforce. I think you have to give the manufacturers a call to check on pricing and availability.

[rstimpfling]

Thank you so much for the information. I will keep you updated as I work through my build. I still haven't decided which scope I am going to use.

Robert

[elkboy]

Thank you so much for the information. I will keep you updated as I work through my build. I still haven't decided which scope I am going to use.

Robert

I have been using a Leupold Mark 4 M5 with a Horus reticle on my Rem 700 300 ultra mag and really like it. I wish it was on a semi auto 308 so I could take full advantage of how fast this scope is. Once you have your holds down, it is amazing. Good luck with your build

[M ammo]

I just got a Hawk,, and have it on a semi 308,,

I shot it this weekend at distance, out to 1000, my dope only got me out to 900 ish, but I gave it a try.

I need to learn how to read the wind,

I got some hits out to 750,

250,, was too easy,,, 500 not a big problem,,

I will be saving up for a horus for my 3 gun rifle!

I Like it,

Jim M ammo

[M ammo]

Thanks to SWFA and the trade in program,,

I now have a Horus for my 3 gun rifle,,

I ran the scope dope,,, now I need to get out and shoot it,,,

come on weekend!!!!!!!

Jim M ammo

[Ken Kwiat]

My $.02 is that Horus reticles are passe from the LR competitive shooting perspective. Before FFP, Mil/Mil high quality glass scopes with the current generation of reticles (Gen2 XRs, Gen2 MilDots, P4Fine,...) were pervasive, the Horus concept was gaining popularity out of necessity.

Today, I don't see the benefit or actual usage in LR Tactical competitions. Hoser: name a competitor using a Horus at RatonSportingRifle or SteelSafari or ???. Matt Burkett was a Horus supporter awhile back; not sure what he's using now but I'm willing to bet he moved on as well.

And, you can quote antecdotal stories of what military field operators are using all day -- different application under different field conditions. I question how much the Horus reticles are being deployed? Is that why the USMC awarded PR a big contract or S&B's continuing run?

My advice would be to spend that hard earned cash getting a quality FFP, Mil/Mil (or MOA/MOA if you must) with a current generation reticle with demarks for holdover and windage. That way you have the choice of dialing or holding over (most everyone dials for elevation, holds for wind). Sure, if you don't have tactical turrets with repeatable capabilities, you're forced to use the reticle to do it all. That's not the case today. For tons more background on this, go lurk on SnipersHide and you'll see 50x more posts, interest, chatter about S&B, Zeiss/Hensoldt, PremierReticles, USO, Nightforce, Vortex nominally using Gen2 versions of reticles, not Horus (although you can certainly get them still). Remember, any reticle with the whisper of Horus in it and you're paying the licensing/royalty fees. If that's how you want to spend your money, have at it.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Ken Kwiat

[M ammo]

My $.02 is that Horus reticles are passe from the LR competitive shooting perspective. Before FFP, Mil/Mil high quality glass scopes with the current generation of reticles (Gen2 XRs, Gen2 MilDots, P4Fine,...) were pervasive, the Horus concept was gaining popularity out of necessity.

Today, I don't see the benefit or actual usage in LR Tactical competitions. Hoser: name a competitor using a Horus at RatonSportingRifle or SteelSafari or ???. Matt Burkett was a Horus supporter awhile back; not sure what he's using now but I'm willing to bet he moved on as well.

And, you can quote antecdotal stories of what military field operators are using all day -- different application under different field conditions. I question how much the Horus reticles are being deployed? Is that why the USMC awarded PR a big contract or S&B's continuing run?

My advice would be to spend that hard earned cash getting a quality FFP, Mil/Mil (or MOA/MOA if you must) with a current generation reticle with demarks for holdover and windage. That way you have the choice of dialing or holding over (most everyone dials for elevation, holds for wind). Sure, if you don't have tactical turrets with repeatable capabilities, you're forced to use the reticle to do it all. That's not the case today. For tons more background on this, go lurk on SnipersHide and you'll see 50x more posts, interest, chatter about S&B, Zeiss/Hensoldt, PremierReticles, USO, Nightforce, Vortex nominally using Gen2 versions of reticles, not Horus (although you can certainly get them still). Remember, any reticle with the whiper of Horus in it and you're paying the licensing/royalty fees. If that's how you want to spend your money, have at it.

All good points,, it comes down to the right tool for the job.

I use mine for 3 gun, and a little Precision rifle now and again.

I did get the Blackbird, and have shot one match and have as of last weekend shot my 3 gun AR .223/5.56 out to 750 yards. 250.. to easy 500 I had to hold for wind, after that,, easy again,, 750 I got 5 hits out of 15 on a LaRue I'm not much of a wind reader,, but I'll get to it..

I like the holds, as I can calculate for any ammunition and get my holds, for a the other scopes with the drops,, I was loading the ammo to match the scope,, now I can find the load my gun shoots the best, run the data and have a better end result, accuracy wise. All the way around,,

[Ken Kwiat]

Hey Jim,

Wow, 750 yds with .223 under the clock? Bet that was fun...

As I was "trying 3 gun" after years of pistol-only competition as of a couple of years ago, I can definitely relate. The thing that bugged me the most was the typical 3 gun optics with stadia lines that never matched my loads. So I'd have to remember the "use the 500 yd stadia for my 440 yd hits", etc. And, I was using a 3.5x TA11 which for my aging eyes, wasn't cutting it at RockyMtn distances (350-600 yds).

Then, I jumped into the LR scene with both feet. FirstFocalPlane Reticles, MilReticles/MilTurrets behind quality glass and Gen2 reticles (dots or hashes) completely revolutionized my thinking. This is combined with considerable load and dope sheet development. Now, I run a FFP, 1.25-6x USO with a mil-based reticle (USO's C2) for 3 gun (with JPoint for CQ stuff since I'm an Open shooter). And, I'll probably entertain the S&B ShortDot 1-8x or Premier 1-8x when they're available.

BUT, my LR experience changed the way I approach 3 gun. Like you, I have a dope sheet(s) for my loads for the DensityAltitude(s) where I'll be shooting. All done as part of match prep.

Granted, there's seldom time to dial between targets on a 3 gun stage. But I do find that dialing (pre stage) to some intermediate distance and then doing subtle (e.g., .2-.5 mil adjustment via the reticle) works pretty well. The Horus would be overkill for this application.

Within the LR community, there is a very clear "std recipe" developing around the mil/mil (or MOA/MOA), FFP (so you don't have different dope for different mag factors), Gen2 reticles, and good quality glass. That's the only real point of my prior post. My experience is with the newer high quality designs, the appeal of a Horus reticle has diminished.

Different tools for different apps: you are a braver soul than I am. I definitely use much different platforms for the different games. I can't imagine using a AR-15 for LR precision work. I think of AR-15s as long pistols Now, AIAWs or Rem700 or Savages or AR-10s in a good 6.5mm/6mm caliber -- yee ha. That's a rifle!

Edited February 1, 2011 by Ken Kwiat