Bronco9588

RF100 Alternatives?

32 posts in this topic

I was thinking of the ultimate reloading setup and I can't help but wonder about a primer tube fill up device. The best inventions solve a problem that exists. It seems to me that the RF100 is a really really expensive solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist. What are your thoughts? I feel like I could load a tube faster with a lee flip tray and a plastic adaptor. The best device would be automatic and would not require handling tubes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are way over analyzing this. Buy a press first and then determine that loading primer tubes is your limiting factor.

 

Then consider how many primers your willing to detonate at one time. Even on a fully automated 1050, stopping every 100 rounds to fill the primer tube (cases, bullets and occasionally powder as well) it only drops the round count from 1,800 rounds an hour to somewhere between 1,600-1,700. Small price to pay for the margin of safety it affords.

 

M

 

PS oh and I just sold my two RF100's (hated the occasional flipped primer), but there is no way you are going to hunt and peck faster through a couple thousand primers than a primer filler; RF100, PALS or Vibra-Prime

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:

PS oh and I just sold my two RF100's (hated the occasional flipped primer), but there is no way you are going to hunt and peck faster through a couple thousand primers than a primer filler; RF100, PALS or Vibra-Prime

 

 

I have an RF100 that's driving me crazy with jams and flipped primers...  But I'm addicted to it...  What are you planning to use now that you sold your RF100's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh... I am a firm believer in not exceeding 100 primers at a time, but I have no basis for that determination. It seems to me that the design encourages bad primer practices by stacking them on end. Anybody have nearly all 100 go off on them? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why y'all have RF100

problems. Mine is flawless. It loads the tube in less than the 2 minutes alloted to that job. One of the best things I ever brought.  I got tired of being a dip chicken into a metal pan.

 

put it on a sturdy table. Level it or tip slightly forward. Works great

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bronco9588 said:

Oh... I am a firm believer in not exceeding 100 primers at a time, but I have no basis for that determination. It seems to me that the design encourages bad primer practices by stacking them on end. Anybody have nearly all 100 go off on them? 

 

 

You can still only load 100 at a time.

 

While I am reloading the RF100 fills up its primer tube.  When my reloader is out of primers I empty the RF tube into my machine, dump 100 primers in the RF100, hit go and get back to reloading.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the rf was overpriced until I got one.  Put it on a sturdy table and on a mouse pad.  It runs flawless with CCI small pistol and CCI small pistol magnum.  I have one flipped primer ever 2k maybe.  With my Mark 7 my downtime is only a few seconds while I walk the tube from the RF to the press and back.  The RF makes for frustration free and efficient primer loading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That seems way safer

Why does the seem way safer?

Look at your video, fire-up your google-fu and do a search on Camdex and then for an RF100 parts diagram. Report back if anything looks familiar.

Yes, primers do detonate in presses. It's not common, but it does happen. Do a search here in these forums. It's discussed fairly regularly.

And no a Mark VII can't detect a flipped primer.

For those that asked, I went from a pair of RF100's to a pair of PALs. While it fills 100 primers much faster (with zero flips) than an RF100, you have to hold it unlike the RF100 where you can dump primers and walk away, so it does take longer.

Both of my RF100's would reliably fill 100 primers, however I was getting 2-3 flipped primers per 2,000 rounds. I wanted something more reliable - even at the cost of time and convenience.

I have a dozen primer tubes I'll fill before starting a loading session on the Mark VII. In between every 100 rounds, I'll either be loading more primer tubes with the PALS or be manually loading rounds on another press. The time difference is nominal and valued in my opinion for ensuring 100% reliability.

FWIW, I typically use Winchester primers which, at least anecdotally perusing these forums, appear to give the RF100's more problems. I haven't found that to be the case with the PALS.

Bronco9588, have you finished your homework assignments yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...its safer because you aren't handling primers multiple times, particularly holding a tube with 100 primers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the OP (and others) fail to acknowledge is that the RF100 is automatic. Dump in a tray of primers and turn it on, and forget it. When you need more they are ready.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:

I have a dozen primer tubes I'll fill before starting a loading session on the Mark VII. In between every 100 rounds, I'll either be loading more primer tubes with the PALS or be manually loading rounds on another press. The time difference is nominal and valued in my opinion for ensuring 100% reliability.

FWIW, I typically use Winchester primers which, at least anecdotally perusing these forums, appear to give the RF100's more problems. I haven't found that to be the case with the PALS.
 

 

First I've heard of the PAL primer filler...  Looks great... 

 

Seems like they are all sold out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...its safer because you aren't handling primers multiple times, particularly holding a tube with 100 primers. 


Then there is no need to panic or over dramatize. That "really, really expensive solution" the RF100 doesn't need to fix is actually "way safer", because it uses a double wall primer tube. Whew, it's not only faster than hunting and pecking primers from a flip tray, but it's also safer to boot!

Btw... I am not saying that Camdex is better.


Ah, you did not complete your homework assignment Bronco. If they are all the same, how could one possibly be better than the other?

What the OP (and others) fail to acknowledge is that the RF100 is automatic. Dump in a tray of primers and turn it on, and forget it. When you need more they are ready.


Oh, I had a bad morning at the range and am feeling ornery, so how broad is that brush painting "others"?

"Unlike the RF100 where you can dump primers and walk away, so it does take longer" wasn't acknowledgement enough?

However there still remains a caveat: are all 100 primers heading in the same direction? 1 in 1,000 wasn't acceptable at least to me, so a slower but more reliable method was found. Really no different from the discussions around powder checks and case gauging ammunition - it all really boils down to personal preference and tolerance for risk.

Take our OP. He's going to buy a $20,000 machine so he doesn't have to handle primer tubes ;-)

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Want2BS8ed said:

However there still remains a caveat: are all 100 primers heading in the same direction? 1 in 1,000 wasn't acceptable at least to me, so a slower but more reliable method was found. Really no different from the discussions around powder checks and case gauging ammunition - it all really boils down to personal preference and tolerance for risk.

 

 

I would happily take 1 in 1,000 flipped upside down...  It's the one or two in one hundred along with jammed primers stopping the process in the the RF100 that is objectionable...  Having to stop to see if the RF100 is jammed is a final deal breaker for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
I would happily take 1 in 1,000 flipped upside down...  It's the one or two in one hundred along with jammed primers stopping the process in the the RF100 that is objectionable...  Having to stop to see if the RF100 is jammed is a final deal breaker for me.

It can be frustrating. One of my two took several adjustments to the Stabilizer Plate before hitting that magic spot where it all came together and began working. The other was good to go out of the box (occasional flipped primers excluded).

Using a mouse pad and/or slightly tilting the filler forward didn't help in my case, but seems to have worked for others. And again anecdotally, Winchester primers seem to be a bit more sensitive.

What really drove me nuts, when you found that 1 in 1,000 it was a completed round with a flipped primer so you not only lost the primer, but the case, powder and possibly the bullet as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:

Take our OP. He's going to buy a $20,000 machine so he doesn't have to handle primer tubes ;-)

 

Reloading is about saving money so you can shoot more (and doing it safely) I am still skeptical about what the rf100 will do for what it costs. I will probably jerry rig a lee tray. RF100 is too expensive for what it claims to do. Its failure rate is statistically significant and its blue so people must flock to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:

What really drove me nuts, when you found that 1 in 1,000 it was a completed round with a flipped primer so you not only lost the primer, but the case, powder and possibly the bullet as well.

It's called a bullet puller...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Reloading is about saving money so you can shoot more (and doing it safely) I am still skeptical about what the rf100 will do for what it costs. I will probably jerry rig a lee tray. RF100 is too expensive for what it claims to do. Its failure rate is statistically significant and its blue so people must flock to it.


You do like drama. Based on your other thread, when you purchase your first progressive press, maybe you will come to appreciate the time savings. Less time reloading is more time on the range.

It's called a bullet puller...


Wait a second... you are afraid to handle a primer tube full of primers, but you are willing to decap a live primer? An upside down live primer? Please don't. As much as the video would be an epic candidate for the Darwin Awards, it's not safe.

Could you render the primer inert? Maybe. Then again maybe not. Is the time worth the savings and more importantly the risk of injury?

And as for your bullet puller, what kind? Impact or collet? What kind of bullet; lead, plated or FMJ? Crimped rounds? Tapered or rolled? You might get a FMJ bullet back out of a taper crimped round using an impact puller, but if the bullet is soft or roll crimped its likely toast.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Want2BS8ed said:

 


You do like drama. Based on your other thread, when you purchase your first progressive press, maybe you will come to appreciate the time savings. Less time reloading is more time on the range.



Wait a second... you are afraid to handle a primer tube full of primers, but you are willing to decap a live primer? An upside down live primer? Please don't. As much as the video would be an epic candidate for the Darwin Awards, it's not safe.

Could you render the primer inert? Maybe. Then again maybe not. Is the time worth the savings and more importantly the risk of injury?

And as for your bullet puller, what kind? Impact or collet? What kind of bullet; lead, plated or FMJ? Crimped rounds? Tapered or rolled? You might get a FMJ bullet back out of a taper crimped round using an impact puller, but if the bullet is soft or roll crimped its likely toast.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

W2BS you are fiesty. I like you. You must have been a terrible shot. Your insecurity is quite appearant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want2,

Jeese, I didn't single out anyone (other than the OP) in fact, you are the only other one in this thread that did acknowledge that the rf100 is automatic and reliable. Feeling guilty?

 

A couple of faupas in your rather dramatic rhetoric thou;

Decapping live primers IS safe when done safely.

The RF is not the only culprit for flipped primers. It can happen in the press as well.

The RF CAN be set up to do the process perfectly with NO flipped primers. Mine is...so yes, all in a thousand are facing the same direction.

As for those rounds with a flipped primer, if you don't take them apart, how do you SAFELY dispose of them? Throw them in the trash and let the garbage man deal with them?

A live round can be disassembled safely and most if not all components recovered.

 

And for bronco, you CAN set the rf up to be perfect. Those who choose to badmouth it did not spend the time to get it perfect. Once its there, its there. Large or small.

 

jj

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
W2BS you are fiesty. I like you. You must have been a terrible shot. Your insecurity is quite appearant. 


There are those that make things happen, those that watch things happen and those that ask what the hell just happened. Less talking and more doing (and a healthy dose of using a search function) might help you.

If you are going to ask questions or for folks thoughts after making wild claims, be prepared for the answers without complaining or arguing.

Want2,
Jeese, I didn't single out anyone (other than the OP) in fact, you are the only other one in this thread that did acknowledge that the rf100 is automatic and reliable. Feeling guilty?


Hell no! Are you?
 
A couple of faupas in your rather dramatic rhetoric thou;
Decapping live primers IS safe when done safely.


I am going to call you on that. How exactly do you do that safely? Any primer manufacturers or reloading manuals willing to accept the liability for those instructions you can reference?

The RF is not the only culprit for flipped primers. It can happen in the press as well.


True, it is a possibility, however with the RF100: 2 to 3 flipped primers for every 2,000 fed through it. Since changing methods, over 20,000 rounds through a MarkVII driven S1050 and zero flipped primers. That's statistically significant enough to determine the press was not at fault. No drama, just facts.

The RF CAN be set up to do the process perfectly with NO flipped primers. Mine is...so yes, all in a thousand are facing the same direction.


I'm glad it's working for you. Interesting that as this is being written the second most active topic in the Dillon forum at the moment is someone having problems with there RF100 - someone we both have tried to help.

As for those rounds with a flipped primer, if you don't take them apart, how do you SAFELY dispose of them? Throw them in the trash and let the garbage man deal with them?


No, I save what few accumulate and periodically take them to a local store/range where I purchased my first press and they offered to dispose of them safely. Sorry if that didn't work out quite the way you wanted it to.

A live round can be disassembled safely and most if not all components recovered.


I have some 38 Special 148g lead wad cutters with a medium crimp that might test that theory. It really depends on what you are dissembling, how it's crimped and what you are using to take it apart. In the OP's case inferring from his other thread that he's primarily going to load 9mm, 223 and 300BLK; as long as he's not loading plated or lead bullets, then yes the components are likely recoverable (unless the primer is flipped of course).
 
And for bronco, you CAN set the rf up to be perfect. Those who choose to badmouth it did not spend the time to get it perfect. Once its there, its there. Large or small.
 
jj

Is this another of those broad brush things or are you being dramatic now? I don't recall anyone who had actually used one badmouthing it. Expressing frustration, providing experiences yes, but nobody called it a piece of junk. Again glad you are happy with yours. I'm happy with my solution.

Let's go back to the original post based on theory and conjecture being made by someone with no hands on experience with the RF100:

the RF100 is a "very, very expensive solution to a problem that shouldn't exist" rounded out with a claim they could hunt and peck with a flip tray faster.

Can we at least agree that both of those claims are false based on our combined experiences?

M



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now