40S&W Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Why does IDPA require that a empty mag be stowed if the mag is empty but a round remains in the chamber? To me it makes no sense to stow an empty mag just a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 It may be a waste of time, but it is also one of the many competition rules in the sport. IDPA considers that a "speed reload" becasue the gun is not empty. If the gun is empty and the magazine is empty, then you may leave the empty mag behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerguy Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Welcome to the wonderful rules that are idpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 because that would be round counting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Come on people, IDPA is a game, just like USPSA. In a real life situation, no one is going to slide lock if possible. Maybe the 'Tiger Team' will change this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 It is a rule that I see no problem with. All sports have rules that the competitors have to abide by. There will always be rules that seem to need changing, but I don't think this is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Come on people, IDPA is a game, just like USPSA. In a real life situation, no one is going to slide lock if possible. Maybe the 'Tiger Team' will change this rule. I have never been in a gun fight, however I can't imagine NOT ending up at slide lock... I don't think I will have the presence of mind to change mags before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Great question. I think this is one of those rules that the Tiger Team should hopefully void - doesn't really make much sense. Why does IDPA require that a empty mag be stowed if the mag is empty but a round remains in the chamber? To me it makes no sense to stow an empty mag just a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 +1 Come on people, IDPA is a game, just like USPSA. In a real life situation, no one is going to slide lock if possible. Maybe the 'Tiger Team' will change this rule. I have never been in a gun fight, however I can't imagine NOT ending up at slide lock... I don't think I will have the presence of mind to change mags before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 'Zactly. Accoding to sources, round counting ability goes out the window when bullets are inbound. You likely wouldn't know if the mag was empty or not unless the slide locked back. If you allow 10 and dump, then you're removing this attempt to keep some realism in the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just shoot an extra round somewhere and reload from slide lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkguy Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 just shoot a revolver and you wont have to worry about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just shoot an extra round somewhere and reload from slide lock. But...but...that would...meh...nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is a very interesting question. Many if not all the shooters I compete with have also pondered this requirement. Often the responses brought forth attempt to interpret the motivation of the "writers of the rules" My take is that we are participating in an activity that has specific rules and that if we desire to participate, we must adhere to these rules. No more no less. Now I recently dusted off my rule book in preparation for my upcoming SO class and low and be hold I could not find any documented reference to "round counting". In fact, appendix TWO, page 41 states: NOTE: Should the CoF call for a Tac-Load and the magazine is empty while a round remains in the chamber, the empty magazine must be retained. NOTE: HQ urges course designers to draft scenario courses that do not require tac-loads or reloads with retention to be performed “on the clock”. So I pondered this for a moment. It states that the empty mag must be retained if the COF requires a Tac-load or a RWR. After a bit more investigation, I found the answer I was seeking.: Page 79 glossary: Reload, Speed or Slide Down: Recharging the gun when there is a round in the chamber by: Dropping the partial magazine on the ground. Drawing a spare magazine. Inserting the spare magazine into the gun. Leaving the partial or empty magazine behind. NOTE: There is NO provision for the speed reload in IDPA competition. Leaving a partial OR empty magazine behind while there is a round in the chamber is not a recognized acceptable IDPA reload. So once again, a round in the chamber and a magazine on the ground is not an acceptable IDPA reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErichF Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So, what is either tactical or practical about hanging onto an empty mag?? It sure seems that the IDPA rules were written by a bunch of old instructors with nothing better to do. The Tiger Team has a lot of work to do, and this is only one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErichF Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) ... Edited March 19, 2012 by ErichF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Erich, If you can read this thread and still not get it, then IDPA is probably not for you. But I suspect you didn't read much. Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Most sports/activities/combat practice evolve, as well as the relevant rules/guidelines/procedures. So while we do have to adhere to IDPA's rules if we wish to keep shooting IDPA, it's great that folks raise these types of questions, as the rules do need to be tweaked periodically to ensure that the sports stays as competitive/authentic/true to its purpose/spirit/etc as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Most sports/activities/combat practice evolve, as well as the relevant rules/guidelines/procedures. So while we do have to adhere to IDPA's rules if we wish to keep shooting IDPA, it's great that folks raise these types of questions, as the rules do need to be tweaked periodically to ensure that the sports stays as competitive/authentic/true to its purpose/spirit/etc as possible. And ya know... part of it may not be related to the "guidelines/principles"... but to the practical administration of a game... Just from the standpoint of an SO running after a shooter, watching fingers and muzzles and use of cover -- to have to take his eyes off the gun and make a mental note each time a mag hits the ground when the gun isn't at slidelock to be sure that mag is empty... or to go back after the COF and inspect each mag on the ground... It's a lot easier to watch that either the gun is at slidelock or the mag gets stowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Erich, If you can read this thread and still not get it, then IDPA is probably not for you. But I suspect you didn't read much. Koski I have been known to shoot a little IDPA and I don't "get" the rule either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Did you read post #10? You don't have to agree with it, just understand the reasoning behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForceLizard Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If you drop your mag after 10 shots in the game then you are training to drop your real magazine with rounds still in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If you drop your mag after 10 shots in the game then you are training to drop your real magazine with rounds still in it. Actually it seems to me that it is getting people accustomed to dropping the magazine when they go to slide lock. That has no bearing to how many rounds you have in the handgun. Simple reaction to stimuli, so when the slide locks back you respond by reloading. Whatever situation you might find yourself in this is a good thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So, what is either tactical or practical about hanging onto an empty mag?? It sure seems that the IDPA rules were written by a bunch of old instructors with nothing better to do. The Tiger Team has a lot of work to do, and this is only one example. Simple answer is that autos require magazines to be more that single shot firearms practically. If you drop all of your magazines and never hold onto at least one a situation might arise where you would want to reload a magazine so that you are not left with just putting a round in the handgun, firing and repeating the process. As long as you have other magazines on you keeping a particular one does not seem to be important. Being at a point where you have no other magazines on you but the empty one in the handgun, holding on to that last magazine then becomes clearly important. Take from that whatever you will, as I believe that you can find good reasons yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) << You don't have to agree with it, just understand the reasoning behind it. >> Actually it is ok to shoot IDPA, not like the rule, not understand the reason behind it, and bitch about it whenever you feel like it. Joining/competing in IDPA does not automatically cancel your 1st Amendment rights nor is there a section in the membership agreement that forbids you from expressing your opinion. Edited March 19, 2012 by Bob Hostetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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