Internal Lock on S&W

[Bill Nesbitt]

How many people here on the be.com forum have had the lock activate on your gun, not second hand stories. We've already heard from Josh.

I had a problem with a 625-8 but I don't know if it was the lock or something else. I had sent the gun to a gunsmith (not Carmoney) to have an action job. Sometimes when either shooting or dryfiring, the trigger would not pull. If I would open the cylinder and close it the gun would work OK for a long time. I sent it back and the gunsmith said it was the internal trigger stop and he took it out as well as taking out the lock. I've since sold the gun after testing it out.

I have a fair amount of rounds through my 686x6 38 Super shooting Major with no problems.

[Steve J]

Good Afternoon,

The question had been asked.

When I contacted Robert Ray, I copied for him a section of the S&W website that warned not to lock or unlock a loaded gun. Robert's response was that the text was on the "Safety" web page and therefore the device is a safety. I then copied text from the owners manual that, in capital, red, letters also expressly warns against locking or unlocking a loaded gun. The manual refers to the device several times , but always as a lock. It seemed quite clear to me that the device has nothing to do with firing or carrying the gun, and that is it for storage of an empty gun. Robert replied that the lock is for the "safe" storage of the gun and therefore the IDPA rule still applied.

I tried.

Even though I agree with Carmoney that the chances of the lock activating are slim, this morning I was thinking of shooting my 66 at S&W instead of my 686.

As an organization IPDA's hands are tied. To officially say that the locking device is not a safety and can therefore be disabled is to take all liability on themselves. For bottom feeders, they would incur the same liability if they said officially that trigger locks & cable locks that are supplied by the manufacturer are unnecessary and competitors can throw them away. The ambulance chasers would be all over that.

[Carmoney]

How many people here on the be.com forum have had the lock activate on your gun, not second hand stories. We've already heard from Josh.

I had a problem with a 625-8 but I don't know if it was the lock or something else. I had sent the gun to a gunsmith (not Carmoney) to have an action job. Sometimes when either shooting or dryfiring, the trigger would not pull. If I would open the cylinder and close it the gun would work OK for a long time. I sent it back and the gunsmith said it was the internal trigger stop and he took it out as well as taking out the lock. I've since sold the gun after testing it out.

I have a fair amount of rounds through my 686x6 38 Super shooting Major with no problems.

Bill, your post touches on an interesting issue--there are several other types of internal problems that can very closely mimic an unintended IL activation. Your gunsmith identified the internal trigger stop (the piece of rod which rides inside the rebound spring) as the problem in your case. Sounds entirely possible to me, particularly if the stop was left with a sharp edge that was catching every now and then.

Recently I handled a mint-condition S&W that would intermittently lock up for no apparent reason. Most of the time it was just fine, but every now and then when you attempted to cycle the action, the trigger would lock tight in the forward position, the hammer wouldn't come back, and the cylinder wouldn't turn. It felt exactly like somebody had used the key to lock the IL system for safe storage.

There was only one problem--this was an older gun that didn't have the IL system!!

Actually, I've seen that issue crop up several times in the past. It's usually caused by a cylinder stop that has had too much "fitting work" done, or a gun with retarded carry-up which allows the cylinder stop to briefly drop down and then almost immediately re-engage the same notch on the cylinder before the cylinder turns far enough to move the notch out of the way. In the instance I described, it was a timing issue which I fixed by fitting a thicker hand.

But I will guarantee ya, if this had been a newer gun, the IL system would have been blamed!

My point here is that even claimed first-hand experience may be inaccurate. Not that those folks intend to mislead anybody, they just might not be ruling out all the other potential problems that could be manifesting the exact same symptom.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Mike, thanks for the info.

That brings up another question. Has the flag been in the up position when a gun locks up. From what I've seen, the flag must be in the up position if it is causing the lockup.

[RobMoore]

I tried.

You made an excellent argument. Good job on that. I don't think there is anything anyone could have said to change his/their mind. This wasn't the logical choice, it was the safe one.

[Aglifter]

On my 625, the flag was partially up when it locked. I admit I do not know if the flag was up when the two 340PDs that I know locked up. Michael Bane had a lightweight 44 lock up on camera -- did anyone see if the flag was up on his?

Usually, the lock problems seem to be on either the 340PDs or the ultra-light 44s -- both violently recoil, and neither model would be shot very often. I have NEVER shot anything as violent as a 340PD, including my 4" 500 and 454 Ruger Alaskan. I don't mind carrying 44 mags in my 329NG, but I would not carry 357 Mags in a 340PD as I don't think its possible to recover fast enough in between shots.

[SauconValley Shooter]

Good Afternoon,

My 686-5 will be at my FFL next week. I will set it up just like the 686-6 that I have been using for a few years. I plan to shoot the 686-6 for local matches and keep the 686-5 for major matches.

I shot my pre-lock 66 at the S&W match. It was OK, but I prefer the 686. On stage four after engaging targets at the salad bar, I dropped one round onto the floor while reloading. I do not know how that happened, but I do not recall it happening with the 686. The K frame cylinder is so small! I dropped to one knee, loaded the dropped round, closed the cylinder and ran as fast as I could to the next shooting position to finsh the stage.

They did do a visual inspection for lock parts at the chrono and equipment check station, but they did not function check the lock.

I am set now for IDPA. I will shoot a pre-lock 686 in SSR and pre-lock 646 in ESR.

[Gregg K]

They did do a visual inspection for lock parts at the chrono and equipment check station, but they did not function check the lock.

I told the guys at the chrono that after all the trouble that I went through to put that piece of crap lock back in that they could have at least checked it.

One of the guys at the check said he didn't understand why anyone would even care since it isn't a safety.

Sounds like you are good to go at any rate.