benos Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Lately, Rob and I have this joke about practicing - we only shoot at 15 yds because it's the ultimate distance. Why? Because in today’s matches you rarely shoot past 15 yds. If you do, a long shot is 25yds. So 15yds is far enough to keep you honest, but close enough to let you crank it up. With that in mind, try the following drills. Set up 1, 2, or 3 IPSC targets at 15yds (in case you forgot, the ultimate distance). Basically, you're just shooting on one target at a time; you might set up 2 or 3 just so you don't have to go tape as often. (Be sure to try the Double Draw Master, covered elsewhere in this forum.) Then, try some Bill Drills on a 15 yd target. (Surrender or Hands at Sides Start - 6 shots – only all A's count for a score, which is your time.) What is your best time? And then, when you're really feelin’ froggy, try some Bill Drills on the Head box. (Or for the politically correct, the upper B panel.) I'm using a slightly different scoring requirement for the Head Box Bill Drills - instead of having to shoot all those (very small) A's, all 6 shots must score in the head panel, and the A's just break the ties. For example, on my first attempt, I shot 6 head shots in 2.75 secs, and 3 of the shots were A's. So the score would be 2.75, 3x. Now as far as world records go, the determining factor is time, so a 2.50 with all B's would be the winner. Some time ago, every time I would go to practice I would attempt to shoot a "cold turkey" Bill Drill at 7 yds before I began my practice session. This taught me quite a bit about the difference between being knee-deep in brass and shooting a "record run," or shooting a run in a match. Eventually, after a year or so I did it; I never tried it again. (Too much emphasis on the accomplishment, I guess.) And then, a couple years ago I began trying the same thing, only this time at 15 yds (the ultimate distance). This tougher requirement really opened my eyes to being "warmed-up" before competing. Eventually, I did this also - Robbie happened to be at the range to witness it. I've tried it a few times since - it's tough - I haven't done it since. (In reality, I can try a 2 second Bill Drill at 15 yds for a boatload of rounds and not do a single one.) (It's a 1.00 draw and .20 splits) Don’t worry about the 2 sec time for your Bill Drills, especially past 7 yds. Concentrate on shooing all A’s and see what your fastest one is (with all A’s) cold turkey, and then see what your best is after you’ve cranked some rounds downrange. I think the 15 yd Head Box Bill Drill is a killer drill – I plan on shooting it quite a bit in the future. My best today was my first run – 2.75 3x. (It was not cold turkey!) My best 15 yd body Bill Drill is 1.89 secs. It was a total "luck-fest," I don’t think I could ever repeat it. For me, just to get under 2 secs is really rough. If I "connect," it will probably be around the 1.97 – 1.99 zone. Practicing in this way, it’s easy to just start shooting for the "time," and then see if the hits are there. Obviously, this will produce bad habits – it’s better to practice to shoot all A’s and let the time be what it is. Have some fun with these "Ultimate Distance Drills" and post your personal records. BTW, all these drills are major cal, stock gun. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Well thats tommorrows practice laid out...thanks. How 'bout 25 and 50 yd times (I guess they are beyond ultimate!) Pat PS 15 yds man thats far! Last couple of matches I shot, a long shot was where there were no powder burns on the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 Has anyone been shooting Bill Drills (or anything else for that matter) on the new "Classic" target. I've been making a point of practicing with this target lately, just for the smaller A zone. Really makes you pay attention (read "slows me down"). Also when you get to a match, "normal" target look BIG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 I was doing this drill, and double draw master, on the classic target today. Its pretty much the only target we use up here now. The scoring surface is about 30% smaller so it is a bit more challenging. I ran 1.84 to 1.87 as best times with average being 2.00 (Open class) Draw on 1.84 was a 1.07 with splits in the .14 to .16 range. Also did some strong hand/weak hand bill drills at 25yds (specific practice for Can. Nats.) best times were 4.10 strong hand 4.09 weak hand Pat (Edited by Pat Harrison at 8:48 pm on June 2, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 3, 2001 Author Share Posted June 3, 2001 Pat, Sounds like pretty smokin' times for the ol Open Gun! be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 I'm likin' the new SVI comp I put on the gun. Its the 5 chamber with the first three reverse cut 10 degrees. Man is it soft! dot movement is minimal with 115 gr bullets and tracking is PERFECT. I don't think I could have gotten those times a week ago. I put that comp on a week ago friday, shot about 250 rounds through it saturday, and kicked butt at the monthly Tonawanda match. Won all 4 stages, and match by 11%. Its a bit more muzzle heavy than I like but I can't argue with the performance. Gotta work on my draw though, it was a bit tardy. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 4, 2001 Author Share Posted June 4, 2001 Beautiful - don't you love it when you can buy a score! be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Get ready to laugh at these times: Best performance on the fifteen yard head box bill drill: 9.87 seconds with four hits, two misses. But on the ten yard line I can hit 6 hits pretty regularly in under 8 seconds in the head. Regular body bill drills at seven yards I can do on demand with all A's in 4.25-4.50 seconds. I think next time I'm gonna just shoot all Bill Drills at ten yards ----- when I can hit the head box 6 times regularly I'll move back. This really is a great drill though ---- I think it's gonna help a lot on the small IPSC plates that I usually have to shoot at twice before hitting them with the third round. And here in the US all steel has to be at least 11 yards away. Thanks for the tip, Brian, ---- I would have never figured out to try this drill on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Not always, but I do like it when I think things through and try something I think will really make a difference (I've always wanted to try a reverse port comp since I first saw Johnny Lims comps, But they were way too heavy. This was the first one I saw that seemed a good balance). I really didn't think it would make that much difference. I still prefer a smaller lighter comp. A bill drill is a pretty limited test for a comp as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't show how target to target times are affected (due to weight). Limcats are pretty good on bill drills but I'd never have one on my gun. Sounds like I'm feelin' guilty for 'buying performance' doesn't it? Oh well I guess the same applies in Limited too. Heavy parts etc. put on Standard guns. Its funny but as much as we all say the performance is inside you, not in equipment, we all are so willing to go out and try something new and brag about it when it works or whine when it doesn't. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Just out of curiosity, what are the 'Great Ones' times for Open on this drill? What am I aiming for, timewise, to be up with the top dudes? I'd like to hear Travis' times too. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Pat, Congratulations on the match. Let me ask you this...do you think anything else changed besides your comp? Perhaps you also increased some other aspect of your shooting. It sure sounds like you dialed it up a notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Yeah, I'm 'seeing' a bit better. I've had a bit of a visual patience/rushing problem lately. Partly from lack of practice/confidence/focus which I have been working on. This site has helped tremendously. But I still notice a difference in how the gun acts with the new comp. So its probably a combination of the two. I am shooting better points lately and hitting steel with more confidence. Thanks to some of the drills posted, my draw is getting more consistant (I posted a 1.00 second draw to a 12 yd popper in Wednesdays club match). We'll find out how much of it is the gun I guess when I get my new SVI in a couple of weeks. I'll see what difference it makes. Maybe it is just me, but we so often blame our gear when we don't do well, I think it deserves praise when we do...lol Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Man, I tried that 15 yd head drill today! I have been practicing a drill that seemed similar, but isn't. I have been doing 6 shots in six seconds and backing up until I can't make the time. I max out at about 22 yards on the 6 seconds. My best effort at 15yds is six in the head in 3.60. I can only get 4 in 2.75. Here is what I learned so far. When I sped up from my six second pace, my shots were walking off the left side of the target. Slowed down, hits came back. I was questioning my stance and everything until I finally realized it was my support hand grip. I've never tried shooting that fast at that distance. This grip has been with me for probably three years and now I see it's achillies heel! I have been shooting 60% pressure with the support hand. And I think for me this is still right, but I wasn't rolling my support hand forward as much as some better shooters do. When I corrected between shots, my ham fisted support hand was pulling the shots about 3" to the left, causing me to start missing by the fourth or fifth shot. It was real obvious too. After five strings there were zero hits on the right half of the target! So, I finally started rolling the support hand thumb forward and the gun returns in a straight line now. I'm slapping my forehead! Somebody told me this once and since I didn't see any diference, so I let it slide. This is a really good drill. I'm setting all hits in 3.25, consistently, as my first goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 11, 2001 Author Share Posted June 11, 2001 Nik, and bonedaddy, good work, keep it up! Pat, The Great One hasn't tried it with his open gun yet, and he probably won't until a few days before the Open Nats.... Basically, he only shoots stock type blasters, and he hasn't given me a score on it yet. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 One of these days (when I can afford it) I'm gonna have to get a 'stock type blaster' and start playing with it, see what I can do. Unfortunately borrowing others is tough as I find stock guns seem more personnly set up than open. At least I never seem to find one I'm happy with. Many are too heavy or too sluggish for my liking. Maybe next year I'll break down and get an SVI Limited. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Shot some 7m and 15m bill drills yesterday. The bill drill at 7m was nothing spectacular, usually in the 1.8-1.9 second range, though I did see some issues I've been having with the draw and worked it through. The 15m was an eye opener, I don't thunk I've done any since the last time I posted in this thread. It took a few to warm up to them again but I managed to stick a couple in the 2.2 range which was 1.2 draws and .17 to .19 splits. The draw us where I am really suffering lately so I have some work to do. The interesting thing for me was at 15m lately my typical split on target with my SS is around a .3 and I usually considered anything under that, typically .25 to .29, with the open gun to be pretty good. Shooting splits under .2 and getting solid A's showed me how much faster it's possible to get my hits. I've had similar problems at 7m where I was shooting splits in the low .20's at best. And my draw was slow but I couldn't figure out where I was losing the time. Some of it is just pure tension, but more than that I've been focusing a little too much on executing 'perfectly' and not pushing the edge at all. In other words I was shooting 7m and 10m targets like they were at 15m and 20m. I did something similar when working on entering positions, I focused so hard on getting a perfect entry, as far as the feet are concerned anyways, that I created extra movement that actually slowed me down. Forgetting that really I just need to get in the box and get the shot into the A zone as early as possible. I was drawing and presenting the gun to the target like it was 25m away. While I guaranteed an A, I had 2 tenths of a second looking at the dot in the A zone. So I have lots of stuff to work on, but I'm learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 Keep up the good investigations Pat. At this (your) stage of the game it's all about "eliminating." Finding the perfect balance between underdoing and overdoing. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Right now I think I am tending to overthink stuff and be way too deliberate in my actions. I am planning to be very precise and deliberate, so I am very precise and deliberate when I shoot...and it's slowing me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 2, 2010 Author Share Posted October 2, 2010 Right now I think I am tending to overthink stuff and be way too deliberate in my actions. I am planning to be very precise and deliberate, so I am very precise and deliberate when I shoot...and it's slowing me down. From what you've written, I had that same feeling too. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 The 7m Bill drills taught me about my draw and the 15 taught me about sight tracking and splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 today's assignment..........15 yard Bill drills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Woulda helped if I had remembered to take a timer. No matter I saw the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUbor9 Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 OK after school tomorrow ima go out and blast away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Jeremiah, The "Bill Drill" is 6 shots into the Alpha. Keep after it, and keep learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 I think he was shooting the Double Draw Master and got this in the wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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