Fitting the SSS exctractor

[MemphisMechanic]

I installed the SSS hardened extractor last night, and went and shot the gun. With 115gr Blazer factory loads, and my 124gr reloads (4.2 titegroup) it had the same jam every 10-15 rounds. The extracted case was stuck in the ejection port (like a stovepipe, but the case was still horizontal) at 12 o'clock - it was centered directly over the bore, not off to the side like you'd expect.

The gun *did* extract every single case, and tension on the extractor (still running the stock spring) is noticeably higher.

The only thing I did to the extractor was to thin it top-to-bottom so that it would fit into the cutout on the slide. It was .280" high, and the factory one measured .275" on my 9L, so I had to shave a few thousandths off it. It now pivots freely, but without any slop.

Is there an additional step I should take?

Honestly, the more I think about it, I believe the gun will run fine if I install the factory one. It took 2 months of matches without cleaning for the FTE problem to appear. And I was running with the extractor completely dry. Oiling it like most of you do, and actually cleaning the gun (it's not a Glock) would probably do the trick. But I'd still rather install the SSS part correctly and have a gun that will run filthy. I didn't realize how dirty this pistol was until I pulled it apart to install the SSS part. It was nasty.

Edited December 31, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[G-ManBart]

I installed the SSS hardened extractor last night, and went and shot the gun. With 115gr Blazer factory loads, and my 124gr reloads (4.2 titegroup) it had the same jam every 10-15 rounds. The extracted case was stuck in the ejection port (like a stovepipe, but the case was still horizontal) at 12 o'clock - it was centered directly over the bore, not off to the side like you'd expect.

The gun *did* extract every single case, and tension on the extractor (still running the stock spring) is noticeably higher.

The only thing I did to the extractor was to thin it top-to-bottom so that it would fit into the cutout on the slide. It was .280" high, and the factory one measured .275" on my 9L, so I had to shave a few thousandths off it. It now pivots freely, but without any slop.

Is there an additional step I should take?

Honestly, the more I think about it, I believe the gun will run fine if I install the factory one. It took 2 months of matches without cleaning for the FTE problem to appear. And I was running with the extractor completely dry. Oiling it like most of you do, and actually cleaning the gun (it's not a Glock) would probably do the trick. But I'd still rather install the SSS part correctly and have a gun that will run filthy. I didn't realize how dirty this pistol was until I pulled it apart to install the SSS part. It was nasty.

I can't answer your question, but how hard was it to get the pin out of the stock extractor? What did you use? Big hammer and a drill bit cut short or something else?

I have an SSS extractor that I was planning on putting in my Pro, but then figured I'd wait until I get one of Kenny's extra power extractor springs. I was dumb and didn't order one (or didn't know about it) when I ordered my last batch of stuff. I don't feel like spending $9 on shipping to get a $2.95 part...d'oh.

Recently I've wanted/needed a small press for stuff like this and I'm wondering if a small 1-ton arbor press would do the job? Harbor freight has a cheapie for $45 that looks like it might fit the bill, but I'm not sure 1-ton is enough. I know Smith uses a much larger press to install sights and such. R,

[MemphisMechanic]

The pin is a serious pain. As you might guess from my username, I work in a shop with a lot of brute-force oriented equipment.

I honestly do not thing I would use a press for this application. And one ton is definitely not going to be enough. You need an impact-type force to jar it loose. A punch and a hammer work great if you do it right.

Drive the pin out the bottom. It's NOT tapered... although it was so tight I was beginning to suspect that I was driving a tapered pin the wrong direction, micrometers don't lie. Punch it out the bottom, simply because that lets you set the slide down on something flat (and VERY solid) and swing with authority.

You'll basically need to locate a punch the same size as the pin, and give it one sharp blow as hard as you can. You do NOT want to mushroom the head of the pin, so don't give it a series of half-hearted swings. Hit it once like it owes you money.

If you use the appropriate-sized punch out of the top set in this picture, you will bend it.

If you're going to use a pin punch like that, buy two. Cut the first one off as short as you can (that's what I did after I bent it on the first hit) and still get the tip of it on the pin without bottoming on the slide. It budged on my second hit with the cut-down punch. Once it moves, you're home free. Borrowed a second punch that size from another guy at work, and popped it out. Hell, you could probably use a Glock armorer's tool and a rubber mallet once it moves.

Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled at the idea of leaving the gun setup like that. I rummaged through my box and found a roll pin the correct size, cut it the same length as the factory pin, and I'm using that. Dan Burwell apparently does the same thing. Made it extremely simple to swap extractors. Not Glock simple, but not a chore, either. The roll pin was easy to drive in and out with a glock armorers tool and a rubber mallet - just like the factory roll pins in the frame.

Edited December 31, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[kend]

Bart, the $9.50 shipping is just an estimate because we have a cheap shopping cart The shipping on that part by itself would probably be a dollar or two at the most.

MM, you are correct, the extractor pin is not tapered and the proper size roll pin is much easier to remove/install. It's critical to remove and install the pin in the proper direction as the top and bottom holes are two different sizes with the top hole being the smaller one, if you drive it out from the bottom (backwards) then it'll be tough all the way. You're dead on with the rest of it also.

[NoSteel]

I have found that when working with the M&P slides (Pins, Sights) things go a bit smoother if the slide spends some time in the freezer before the work begins.

[00bullitt]

MM.....I've had to tune a few ejectors as well as extractors to get the M&P's 100%. You may need to bend the ejector just a tad to get better contact with the case rim so that it will flip it out the ejection port.

Your description of removing the pin is spot on. I clamp my slide down tight in a large vice in between some good poly vice jaws. I put the cut down punch against the head of the solid pin and give it one and sometimes two hard whacks with a 12oz. ball been to free it up and then chase it the rest of the way with a regular pin punch. And I use a true roll pin to replace it with. Split/tension pins will work just fine too if you can't find a true roll pin.

There is a pad on the extractor that rest against the inside of the slide that determines how much tension is on the case rim as well. It may need to be stoned some. The SSS extractor is so hard a file wont scratch it.

Another thing that works real well in a factory extractor spring is to use 2 of the AR15 rubber extractor inserts. Install them opposing each other in the factory spring. Works great for increasing spring tension. But keep in mind.....a heavier spring will not increase tension on the case rim. It only prevents the extractor from letting go easier. So assuming the extractor already has good case rim tension......the ISMI spring or rubber inserts will work well. But I can't think of one extractor that I have not removed a slight bit of material from the pad of the factory extractor.

[Sarge]

Bart I was worried about getting the extractor out as well but for some odd reason a few good whacks and mine was out. It is not that big of a deal really.

[MemphisMechanic]

MM.....I've had to tune a few ejectors as well as extractors to get the M&P's 100%. You may need to bend the ejector just a tad to get better contact with the case rim so that it will flip it out the ejection port.

Your description of removing the pin is spot on. I clamp my slide down tight in a large vice in between some good poly vice jaws. I put the cut down punch against the head of the solid pin and give it one and sometimes two hard whacks with a 12oz. ball been to free it up and then chase it the rest of the way with a regular pin punch. And I use a true roll pin to replace it with. Split/tension pins will work just fine too if you can't find a true roll pin.

There is a pad on the extractor that rest against the inside of the slide that determines how much tension is on the case rim as well. It may need to be stoned some. The SSS extractor is so hard a file wont scratch it.

Another thing that works real well in a factory extractor spring is to use 2 of the AR15 rubber extractor inserts. Install them opposing each other in the factory spring. Works great for increasing spring tension. But keep in mind.....a heavier spring will not increase tension on the case rim. It only prevents the extractor from letting go easier. So assuming the extractor already has good case rim tension......the ISMI spring or rubber inserts will work well. But I can't think of one extractor that I have not removed a slight bit of material from the pad of the factory extractor.

Thanks for the help.

I think I'll try stoning the factory extractor first. My assumption is that I will be removing material from the inside of the extractor up near the claw, to effectively let the claw end of the extractor come in onto the case rim more without contacting the cutout in the slide. Correct?

[00bullitt]

You got it

[G-ManBart]

Bart, the $9.50 shipping is just an estimate because we have a cheap shopping cart The shipping on that part by itself would probably be a dollar or two at the most.

MM, you are correct, the extractor pin is not tapered and the proper size roll pin is much easier to remove/install. It's critical to remove and install the pin in the proper direction as the top and bottom holes are two different sizes with the top hole being the smaller one, if you drive it out from the bottom (backwards) then it'll be tough all the way. You're dead on with the rest of it also.

D'oh....I should have known better. I was thinking that the last time I ordered something it came USPS instead of UPS, and that it wasn't $9.50, but got sidetracked....was going to touch base to ask. I'm off to order a couple of the springs from you now!

For everybody else: this is great info. It appears that the factory pin is pretty close to 5/64ths. I took the base of a 5/64ths drill bit and it'll just fit on top of the pin. So, I'm going to shorten up a drill bit and try that since I couldn't find a 5/64ths punch to shorten up. I'll let some penetrating oil sit on it for a couple of days while I'm waiting for the extractor springs and see what happens. I picked up a $7-8 value pack of roll pins at Harbor Freight and it appears that the size they call 3/32 might actually work perfectly....we'll see. R,

[MemphisMechanic]

Pretty sure a cut-down 3/32 roll pin is what I used. Once you have the factory pin out to compare, it's obvious.

Drill bit should work, just make sure you wear eye protection. They're brittle, and are more likely to crack or shatter than bend.

Edited January 2, 2010 by MemphisMechanic

[cyclone336]

Does replacing the factory solid extractor pin with a roll pin move the gun out of USPSA Production because it is an externally visible modification?

[G-ManBart]

Does replacing the factory solid extractor pin with a roll pin move the gun out of USPSA Production because it is an externally visible modification?

Yikes....that's getting a little down in the weeds, but it's a valid question. I guess all we can do is have somebody send Amidon an e-mail and ask. I have a feeling it'd be fine since it offers no advantage, of any kind, to anybody. R,

Edit to add: I just sent NROI a note asking about this. I'll update with an answer when I get it.

Edited January 2, 2010 by G-ManBart

[kend]

Does replacing the factory solid extractor pin with a roll pin move the gun out of USPSA Production because it is an externally visible modification?

No, the extractor is visible also and it's Production legal.

[cyclone336]

No, the extractor is visible also and it's Production legal.

Yes, but I thought that was because extractors are explicitly listed in section 21.6 of the "NROI Interpretation for the Production Division Equipment Rules". I know that this is a minor minor point, but the extractor pin is not listed in section 21.6 as being alright to modify.

[00bullitt]

The M&P 45 comes with the rolled spring steel pin. The 45 gets it because the military required that the entire pistol be field servicable when the gun was submitted for the Joint Special Forces pistol trials. I wish they would follow suite with ALL the M&P's for that matter.

[MemphisMechanic]

UPDATE:

I have...

Swapped back to the stock striker spring

Installed a 13lb ISMI Glock recoil spring.

Fitted the SSS extractor properly. Needed to take about .010" off the 'pad' where it rests on the slide right behind the claw.

It eats 135ish PF 147gr loads now, like candy. It's gone 300 rounds perfectly. Remember, it wouldn't go *ten* without a stovepipe before, when I hadn't properly fitted the extractor.

It failed to lock open once strong-hand-only, but I was unable to reproduce this while limpwristing the hell out of the gun SHO and WHO. I was holding the gun about an inch below the beavertail with three fingers, and it would lock open every time. And when held tightly, obviously.

Right now, I'm happy. I will keep you updated.

[00bullitt]

SUH-WHEEET

[DWFAN]

Yup, Schweet. Glad to hear its 100% right now. Im hoping to not have to go through this with my Pro. Been good so far, and thats all I'll say so I dont jinx myself.

[LLDJR]

Interesting

[MemphisMechanic]

Thanks.

Just finished shooting a video. Total teardown and reassembly of the M&P. Since I had to figure it out on my own, with only the Burwell trigger job-how-to as a guide. And it skipped some steps. I'll have it on YouTube in a day or two.

Edited January 8, 2010 by MemphisMechanic

[Lumpy McSoo]

Sounds great.

Thanks for sharing.

I'll be interested as I am sure many others will be.

Between having to have the rear sight taken off for the plunger and the roll pin for the extractor, I keep having to ask myself why did I, or partially have I, changed from Glocks. Then I shoot the M&Ps side by side, and only at greater than true CCW self defense distance does it matter. Then I realize that I also like to play games out to 25+ yards. Still, I ponder. I haven't sold anything yet. Maybe I am just a gun horder. I love all guns...

Later, Thanks, Lumpy.

[stiles]

That extractor pin is HARD to remove. I put kroil on the pin, got a new Starrett 1/16" punch, trimmed it, and ground it flat. Bang shattered it, the slide got a nice battle scar. Tried another punch, same story minus the scaring. I just want to replace the pin with a roll pin so I can service and or clean it as needed.

[G-ManBart]

That extractor pin is HARD to remove. I put kroil on the pin, got a new Starrett 1/16" punch, trimmed it, and ground it flat. Bang shattered it, the slide got a nice battle scar. Tried another punch, same story minus the scaring. I just want to replace the pin with a roll pin so I can service and or clean it as needed.

I'm trying to find a 5/64ths punch as that's what size it is....might be less likely to break.

[00bullitt]

Are you guys securing the slide in a vice(with soft jaws) or just wailing on it on the bench top?

I secure mine in a vise and its just not hard to get the pin out with a shortened punch. One maybe two good smacks with my 8oz. ball peen and its loose and I chase it out with a longer punch.