Old Holster that does not meet the safety rules

[CHA-LEE]

At a recent local match an experienced shooter had an old style leather holster that had the trigger guard covered on the outside, but it was completely uncovered on the inside. If you reached in between his body and the gun while the gun was holstered you had full access to the trigger.

This holster is not legal since rule 5.2.7 states “Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire wearing:” then 5.2.7.4 states “A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered.”

When I pointed this out to the competitor he stated with an attitude “Well I have been using this same holster for the past 15 years at matches so I don’t know why it wouldn’t be legal now”.

I noticed this holster issue after he was done shooting for the day so I didn’t press the issue for this particular match because there really wasn’t much I could do other than tell him to get an appropriate holster for the next match. For this given match I was the RM/MD so I felt that it was my duty to point out the safety issue and propose a solution. Telling him to get a legal holster for the next match was not well received by the shooter.

What is the best way to tackle this situation other than what I did? If he shows up at the next match I know that the RM/MD should hold to the rules and tell him to use a “Legal” holster or not shoot the match. But how do you gracefully convince a shooter that has been using an illegal holster for so long to switch? To me it should be obvious to the shooter that legal holster should be used.

[Jeff686]

Print the page from the online rule book that applies, with the passages highlighted. Tell him it used to be legal, but for safety reasons, the rules changed.

This nullifies his argument that 'its been legal for 15 years' and forces him to the next stage of the issue. Comply or go home.

He may disagree with the rule, but with words in hand, he can't claim that he is compliant. There is a LONG history of very low tolerance for breaking safety rules, and if he has been in the sport for 15 years, he knows that.

P.S. Maybe bring some goodwill to the situation. Do you have a spare holster that you could have on hand, so he is not forced to go home without shooting. It always makes me feel good when people try to help out by loaning me gear or tools.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Jeff686

[CHA-LEE]

Jeff686> That is a really good suggestion. I think I will do just that for the next match. He shoots a single stack so I will try to scare up a loaner holster as well just in case he does not have one to use at the next match. I don't want to turn people away from the match. Especially if he made the effort to come out and shoot. Everyone should be given the chance to shoot as long as they are following the rules.

[Joe4d]

Why feel the need to be overly polite to someone who has chosen not to be polite to you ? Granted it is always good to claim the moral high ground, but I hear "Thats the way we always do it" as an excuse all the time, well I am sorry but you have always been wrong.

Sounds like this guy will have an attitude no matter what you do. I would certainly bring another holster but I would defenitely not argue with the guy.

That holster is not allowed, you cant shoot with it, end of discussion. I am sure the guy will now try to argue but I wouldnt even answer.

[NickJ]

A piece of cardboard, some tape, and he (his holster) can be legal.

[CHA-LEE]

Joe4d> Why? Because I am a nice guy I guess. That and I think it would be really hard for someone to act like an ass about it if I come to the "Table" with both a concern and a solution verses a "Do it this way or beat it" attitude.

[JimmyZip]

Joe4d> Why? Because I am a nice guy I guess. That and I think it would be really hard for someone to act like an ass about it if I come to the "Table" with both a concern and a solution verses a "Do it this way or beat it" attitude.

When you are being firm and fair, AND charitable, the onus is now on the other guy to accept and be cool, or not and be a d*(k. Not only do you look good, but you are taking all of the moral high ground there is.

Edited December 10, 2009 by JimmyZip

[ima45dv8]

Joe4d> Why? Because I am a nice guy I guess. That and I think it would be really hard for someone to act like an ass about it if I come to the "Table" with both a concern and a solution verses a "Do it this way or beat it" attitude.

Charlie, don't worry about Joe. He's always a little cranky like that.

If you can, find out if his 1911 is a standard configuration or has any enhancements (long dust cover, light rail, etc.), and if he prefers dead bovine products. I just sorted out my "holsters I don't use" drawer a couple of days ago and probably have something that would suit his needs, in either plastic/kydex or DBP. Shoot me a PM with your address and I'll send you a couple he can choose from at no charge.

[LPatterson]

I am a firm believer in safety but I think you are pushing this a little bit hard to say that you think you can reach between the shooters body and holster and pull the trigger is pushing the envelope. How did you happen to see it anyway? However there are several changes to the rules in the past 10 years and the way this one is worded happens to be one of them. The question becomes; are you ready to DQ him under 10.6.1 and have him tell you what to do with your DQ or are you willing to try to get him to understand that rule changes have made his holster unsafe.

Personally when I read this rule I read it to mean that when I am wearing a holstered handgun I would not have normal access to or the ability to activate the trigger.

[CHA-LEE]

LPatterson> I was able to see the issue with the holster as I was walking behind him and could see the exposed trigger when the gun was holstered. I make it a habit to always look at competitors guns to make sure that the mag wells are empty and the hammer is forward. While doing this I seen his trigger while glancing at the mag well and did a double take as that is something that you shouldn’t see when the gun is holstered. I can see your point if the holster was in inside waist band holster where the gun is pressed up against the shooters body, but this an outside waist band holster so its fully exposed. Lets say he was running with a loaded gun in the holster and grabbed the gun while it was still in the holster to steady it. His thumb could touch the trigger in this instance. Or lets say his shirt is bunched up and poking out right where the trigger is and as he holsters the gun after making ready the shirt catches the trigger and an AD occurs. Neither of these situations are safe or should be tolerated simply because he has gotten away with using the holster for who cares how long.

Also, if he refuses to use a legal holster at the next match we won’t even have to “DQ” him as we won’t let him sign up to shoot the match. You can’t get DQed if you are not participating. Since this is a known issue, why would we set ourselves up for failure by letting him get to a point where he can be DQed for using an illegal holster? The rules require that he uses a holster that completely covers the trigger. If he does not have that then he can not participate. This is why I would like to have a spare legal holster ready for him to use if he wants to shoot. At that point it would be 100% his choice. Either keep using his illegal holster and not participate in the match, or use the loaner holster that is legal and participate. These are the sensible options that I can offer.

Hopefully he realizes that he has an illegal holster and gets a legal one on his own before the next match. That way its not even an issue that needs to be dealt with before the match starts.

[Seth]

Since I'm starting my foray into match directing next year, I'm going to put on my new found hat and try and be reasonable.

The safety of the shooters and spectators depends on a level headed application of the rule book and the rule book only works if its applied to the letter every time.

The book states:

5.2.6 USPSA Handgun matches will not require the use of a particular type

or brand of holster. However, the Range Master may deem that a competitor’s

holster is unsafe and order that it be improved to his satisfaction,

failing which it must be withdrawn from the match.

The argument about it always having been legal is moot. If the RM says its a no go its a Show stopper. If the shooter has a problem, then offering a replacement is above and beyond the call of duty.