Old style pinned star on new gun?

[Resjudicata]

I really did search for this. Maybe nobody has brought it up because everybody knows you can't do it.

I'm wondering if you can install a guide pin for the star on a newer gun like the older models have? The reason I'm asking is that those of us with a 610 need some radical chamfering of the cylinder but have to go easy because the ends of the star may break. However, if the gun had a guide pin installed to take the lateral force of moving the cylinder then we wouldn't have to be so careful and could get a real deep and wide chamfer on the charge holes.

Chris

ETA: I'm looking to install an extractor pin on a gun that doesn't come with one.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Resjudicata

[RogerT]

Of course you can, but doesn't the brass do the same job as the pin does? I mean, apart from when dryfiring with empty cylinder you have the brass supporting the star.

Or wan't you have any star legs left surrounding the brass.....?

[Resjudicata]

Yeah, there is some star legs left. I thought I had heard about people breaking of the star legs when you went to low. However, I didn't think about the loaded rounds holding the star. That makes sense. So, if I used empties when I dry fire I could cut the star legs as much as I want and it wouldn't be a problem?

Chris

[Carmoney]

Sounds like you're fixing to do something more radical than necessary, Chris. Be careful down there.

[Resjudicata]

Sounds like you're fixing to do something more radical than necessary, Chris. Be careful down there.

I'm not definitely doing anything too crazy yet. I'm just trying to cover my bases and learn more if I can to keep myself from doing something bad.

It sounds like I'm worrying too much about it. I guess as long as I don't do a bunch of dry fire without empty cases in the chambers I'll probably be fine with some extra chamfering on this cylinder.

Besides, if I screw it up too much my gunsmith just gets to charge me to fix it right?

Chris

[Carmoney]

Actually, Chris, you do touch on an issue that is important when considering how far to hog out those chamber mouths. In the new-style S&Ws, the extractor star (NOTE: jmax reminds us it's called a "ratchet", but I'm going to be talking about the star points more than the actual ratchet part) contributes significantly to proper carry-up. Think about it--when the hand pushes the cylinder around, it's pushing on the ratchet. If the extractor star fits loosely enough that it can rotate slightly before the actual cylinder starts moving, because somebody cut away the "fit" between the star and the cylinder, the hand may reach the end of its travel before the cylinder is fully indexed and the cylinder stop engaged.

Now admittedly, usually putting ammo (or empties) in the chambers will make it function like it's supposed to, because now the star has something in there to bear against. But you get the idea. Just another reason not to get too crazy on the chamfer, even on revo models that use moonclips.

[Jaxshooter]

My 610 is camfered just like the 625s. Why do you need more camfer on the 610? I am trying to learn something not question what you are doing.

Thanks

[Tom E]

The flat sides of the star have to bear against the cases. You can't cut the chamfer so deep that the star no longer has some flat left to bear on the cases. That's the limit on chamfering the star. The cylinder's chamber chamfers could be cut deeper, to the depth of the star recess, and then the tips of the star blended.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Tom E

[Resjudicata]

My 610 is camfered just like the 625s. Why do you need more camfer on the 610? I am trying to learn something not question what you are doing.

Thanks

Jax,

My reason it that with the same size cylinder between the 625 and the 610 there is more space between the charge holes on the 610. That coupled with the use of round nose flat point bullets in 40 S&W makes for a bit slower/more difficult reloads for the 610 than the 625. Mine is chamfered quite a bit and the bullets will still hang up a bit. I'm thinking about getting deeper and wider on my chamfer. I'm going to look at it again this weekend.

What Carmoney and Tom E are talking about is what concerns me. If I go too deep and too wide the ends of the star could break off and maybe keep my cylinder from advancing properly. Best case scenario there is I have a fail to fire or jam. Worse case scenario is that it fires when the cylinder isn't lined up with the barrel. That worries me.

Chris

[Toolguy]

Maybe if you hunt around you could find someone to help you with that.

[michaels]

My 610 is camfered just like the 625s. Why do you need more camfer on the 610? I am trying to learn something not question what you are doing.

Thanks

Jax,

My reason it that with the same size cylinder between the 625 and the 610 there is more space between the charge holes on the 610. That coupled with the use of round nose flat point bullets in 40 S&W makes for a bit slower/more difficult reloads for the 610 than the 625. Mine is chamfered quite a bit and the bullets will still hang up a bit. I'm thinking about getting deeper and wider on my chamfer. I'm going to look at it again this weekend.

What Carmoney and Tom E are talking about is what concerns me. If I go too deep and too wide the ends of the star could break off and maybe keep my cylinder from advancing properly. Best case scenario there is I have a fail to fire or jam. Worse case scenario is that it fires when the cylinder isn't lined up with the barrel. That worries me.

Chris

so you found the little problem with the 610 vs 625 (i use both and like them equally), go & get some round nose bullets from Billy Bullets and you'll never look back. The full round nose profile of the bullets will take care of the hang up that you're getting with the flat nose bullets. Throw in some moons from HearthCo and your're all set. Your reloads will be just about as fast with the 610 as they are with the 625, the 45's probably go in a little faster due to the final weight of the 230 vs 185, and spacing of the holes, but you should hardly notice that. A good quality moon will almost make up for it.

michaels

[Gregg K]

Maybe if you hunt around you could find someone to help you with that.

I think that this is a hint. Warren can't be more than about 20 minutes away from you and could certainly help you with any work that you need done.

[Resjudicata]

Maybe if you hunt around you could find someone to help you with that.

I think that this is a hint. Warren can't be more than about 20 minutes away from you and could certainly help you with any work that you need done.

Yes, that was a hint.

Warren has already done some work for me on this one. Unfortunately, this is one of those S&W revolvers that continues to show up with more and more problems and will need more work over time. I PM'd him to see if he can look at it again.

Chris

[pskys2]

Chris, Josh called me said he found a beautiful, pristine 625-8 at a Pawn Shop in Topeka.

Call/pm one of us if you would like to quit fooling around and get a good .45! You can use GAP brass and regular moon clips, solves the primer change issue, and I believe you will be happier in the long run.

As much as I like simplicity, it just never seems to be quite right when I try to combine loads/guns/calibers. It's just best to get a good solid load for each and keep with them.

You have to get ready for next years Memphis Match, it was "the best, Chris, the best!"

Dave

[Resjudicata]

Chris, Josh called me said he found a beautiful, pristine 625-8 at a Pawn Shop in Topeka.

Call/pm one of us if you would like to quit fooling around and get a good .45! You can use GAP brass and regular moon clips, solves the primer change issue, and I believe you will be happier in the long run.

As much as I like simplicity, it just never seems to be quite right when I try to combine loads/guns/calibers. It's just best to get a good solid load for each and keep with them.

You have to get ready for next years Memphis Match, it was "the best, Chris, the best!"

Dave

I actually do have a 625. I'm just being difficult, as usual.

I paid Warren (Toolguy) a visit today. More chamfering and he installed the pins for me for my peace of mind. We also did some more work on the action and a cleaner barrel crown. I'm going to try and do some shooting tomorrow and try it out.

Dave, I definitely want to go next year. Riich has been talking about it almost non-stop.

Chris

[Wideload]

Chris, Josh called me said he found a beautiful, pristine 625-8 at a Pawn Shop in Topeka.

Call/pm one of us if you would like to quit fooling around and get a good .45! You can use GAP brass and regular moon clips, solves the primer change issue, and I believe you will be happier in the long run.

As much as I like simplicity, it just never seems to be quite right when I try to combine loads/guns/calibers. It's just best to get a good solid load for each and keep with them.

You have to get ready for next years Memphis Match, it was "the best, Chris, the best!"

Dave

I actually do have a 625. I'm just being difficult, as usual.

I paid Warren (Toolguy) a visit today. More chamfering and he installed the pins for me for my peace of mind. We also did some more work on the action and a cleaner barrel crown. I'm going to try and do some shooting tomorrow and try it out.

Dave, I definitely want to go next year. Riich has been talking about it almost non-stop.

Chris

Or if you prefer something different, I found a 6 inch 25 with a pinned barrel that needs some minor care and attn at a local shop.

[jmax]

Actually, Chris, you do touch on an issue that is important when considering how far to hog out those chamber mouths. In the new-style S&Ws, the extractor star (NOTE: jmax reminds us it's called a "ratchet", but I'm going to be talking about the star points more than the actual ratchet part) contributes significantly to proper carry-up. Think about it--when the hand pushes the cylinder around, it's pushing on the ratchet. If the extractor star fits loosely enough that it can rotate slightly before the actual cylinder starts moving, because somebody cut away the "fit" between the star and the cylinder, the hand may reach the end of its travel before the cylinder is fully indexed and the cylinder stop engaged.

Now admittedly, usually putting ammo (or empties) in the chambers will make it function like it's supposed to, because now the star has something in there to bear against. But you get the idea. Just another reason not to get too crazy on the chamfer, even on revo models that use moonclips.

Actually it is the extractor with ratchet. The star points I suppose are gotten at Starbucks when one gets their lattes but there are extractor arms in Smiths .

[Tom E]

Actually it is the extractor with ratchet. The star points I suppose are gotten at Starbucks when one gets their lattes but there are extractor arms in Smiths .

I really like what S&W calls a sear too.