PistolJim Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Hi All I recently (4 weeks ago) got my first race gun. The gun was very tight so I had to play with different springs and things to get it to where it now works perfect . I settled on this set-up. The gun is a Limcat / SV slide and frame. 9# ISMI recoil spring / 17# ISMI main spring / 115 Zero JHP at 1.235 oal - 8.6grns IMR SR7625 - WSR primer - Starline Super Comp brass. With this I get a 172 PF and no signs of case pressure problems. It came with a 19# main spring and the trigger broke on my Lyman trigger pull gauge at 2lbs. 8 ounces but I couldn't get it to realiably extract. I couldn't run a 8lb. recoil spring cause the slide wouldn't reliably shut. So I changed to the 17lb. main spring and have fired about 400 rounds without any problems. Problem is now the trigger breaks at 1lb. 12ounces which you wouldn't think would be a problem but I have now developed a trigger freeze problem when Im in rapid fire mode. It's weird cause I've never had this problem. I know that I'll get over it with more practice but I thought I'd take the time to ask some people that know how to get over this. So could someone help point me in the right direction on how to stop trigger freeze? Any specific drills that will help me stop this? Is it just that the trigger is to light? Finger not sensitive enough? Any helpful hints would help. Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Jim, I shoot a G-17 in IDPA and started having brain farts, er um, trigger freeze. My cure was to dry fire with a revolver for a few days. You have gotten way to used to the short/light reset. Either that or you could set the trigger return a little stiffer. The dry fire wouldn't hurt either way. See! There is a use for wheelers.... Take care, Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old john Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I had a like problem which I solved by turning the trigger screw counter clockwise to give me a little more tirgger take-up for my sight picture trigger prep. It worked for me! On the extaction problem you may try bending the extrctor in some for a tighter grip on the cases. Old John? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Jim, Remember with your trigger that light you don't have as much spring tension pushing your trigger back forward. (reset) It will take some getting used to, or you could heavy up your springs a little. Of course that's going to affect your trigger pull weight also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Let your vision guide your shooting. The vast majority of trigger freeze occurs because you are trying to rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolJim Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Alright I went out today and things were getting better till it started raining. I managed to fire 60-70 rounds and the trigger freeze up was getting alot better. Still a glitch here and there but better than yesterday. As far as pretravel Im getting between 10-12 ounces. You gotta be real sensitive with the Lyman trigger pull gauge to measure this. I read in FS that you wanted to set the pretravel at about a 1/3 the actual pull weight so thats pretty close. The trigger is breaking at 28 to 30 ounces. As far as adjusting the extractor - It's an Aftec that was pretty tight when I first got it. So per Aftec's instructions I took out the springs and compressed them for 20 seconds. Seemed to work. The revolver thing is interesting. I'll have to dust off my GP100 that I haven't shoot in 3 years and try dry firing it. Thats gonna be a work out! As far as setting the pretravel it's already as loose as it will go Other than that I'd appreaciate any more suggestions. BTW the gun worked perfectly today! The guy behind it is gettin better to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Try some dry fire bill drills. Trigger freeze is caused by tension. Tension comes from trying. You need to teach your body that high speed trigger manipulation is no big deal. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Take out your leaf spring and bend the leaf that pushes against the disconnector and trigger bow. Test it by dry-firing, holding the trigger back, racking the slide, and slowly letting up on the trigger. The more it pushes back, the better it will stop trigger freeze. Or, just learn to be a trigger-slapper, not a trigger-rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Steve nailed it. There is an old thread on this topic that I started a long time ago. I struggled with trigger freeze off and on for two years. In my case, the faster I went the tighter I would grip, the grip lost neutrality and tension crept right in there. Sure you can look for a mechanical fix like Erik suggests but is that really going to fix the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolJim Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Jake- What you said makes alot of sense to me. I was trying to go as fast as possible yesterday. I couldn't resist seeing how fast I could go with it. Today I was using alot more control watching my accuracy. It seemed just that cleared up alot of the trigger freeze. Steve - Ron , I will try to run a bunch of Bill Drills next weekend. I probally do have a tension problem. Im going alot faster with this gun than I ever went with my Kimber or Para. After I get done with each Bill Drill I'll try to check myself to feel if I gotta alot of tension built up. Maybe this week I'll go over Brians book. Lots of good stuff on tension in there. Eric - There is something with the reset of the trigger. It's not slow but it does seem soft. On my Kimber it's almost like the trigger slaps my finger. On my Para it's not a slap just a heavier pull. Now Im gonna have to get all these triggers the same or at least similar. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Sorry Ron, I think it’s Erik that nailed this one! A couple of months back I had a sudden and chronic case of trigger freeze. I was even a little proud of myself for being able to out run the gun (yeah, right!). As usual the timer tells the tale, my splits were a LITTLE faster but not THAT fast… long story short, I added a little tension to the sear leaf and all of my trigger freeze problems went away. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolJim Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Ed- Actually I think both Steve and Eric made good points. Today by the time I picked up brass and packed all my gear up I noticed that I had a lite headache. The kind I get every once and a while where my muscles in my shoulders and the back neck start tensing up. Or maybe that was just the weather 50 degrees and rain canceled my practice. I don't know. I gotta address tension a little more. Also I just weighed the pretravel on my Kimber that I've been firing all year. After 10 pulls it averaged 22 ounces. On the race gun 10-12 ounces. When I compare the 2 guns it feels alot different. So I might just try the Bill drills and get used to the trigger. Im thinking of getting a trigger job done on the Kimber. The best I could get it to do myself is about 2lbs. 10 ounces. But theres a big difference with the race gun. It breaks super clean the Kimbers kinda mushy. If I continue to have troubles though Im going to adjust the sear spring to get that pretravel weight up. I got all week to think about it though. Thanks for the suggestions. I got alot of help out of it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Run n Gun: The only frame of reference I have is my own experience. In my case I was experiencing trigger freeze with my Open pistol, with my fat Limited gun, and with my single stack. I did nothing mechanical to my triggers to cure my problems, I simply redirected some attention into my hands and the trigger freeze problem went away. For me the pay off was much faster splits, better hits, and real boost in self trust. Obviously, bending a spring wouldn't have done me any good. Definitely any sort of "trying to go fast" will induce trigger freeze. It never happens when you're really in the gun. ---Brian Enos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 You can have the strongest trigger return spring in the world, say you're shooting a stock Glock, and you will still trigger freeze if you tense up. Jim, "tense" in this context isn't the general physical kind you mentioned. It's a very specific kind that comes about when you try to rush a stage, especially on close targets. It feels like you're arm wrestling. You'll rarely see people trigger freeze on 15 yard targets, but put them in their faces and they're doomed. In a way, trigger freeze is good because it is instant feedback, telling you to stop rushing and relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Ron, I bow to your Master class experience. I haven’t evolved past the mechanical aspects of shooting, that is, if it ain’t working then something’s broke! On rare occasion I drift into the edge of the “zone”, where the stage (or just part of the stage) simply happens without conscious thought. It’s like the sirens call but elusive, always beckoning me but always just out of reach. I’ll get there… one day. PistolJim this just reaffirms the notion that there is wisdom everywhere, soak it ALL in… I know I do. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolJim Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Eric - I haven't been running the Glock for about 2 years but I do remember a couple matches with real close targets where I froze up on the trigger. Im going to be doing alot of dry fire practice this week. Probally some reading also. I don't get home early enough to go shooting so that'll have to wait till the weekend Ed - Im soaking it all in believe me. It would probally take 3 times as long to figure it out on my own. Great Stuff. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Ed: I didin't mean to imply that mechanical fixes weren't also in order, just that my personal problem with trigger freeze wasn't related to the trigger mechanism. BTW, beware taking too much advice from a low level master like me. I am starting to get "it" but some days I really don't have a good handle on what "it" really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Well Ron you are right to some degree, so your not losing it. You can adjust the trigger to where it resets really fast, has very little take-up and has very little slack after the trigger breaks. My gun has a super fast reset and when I pick up someone elses gun and try to burn it up with it I can sometimes double clutch the trigger. Most of the time it's during the high insensity times where tension is at it's max. SO that plays a part as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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