Lose the timer

[TWHaz]

A friend and I were shooting some three target drills. You know, near to far, left to right, move and shoot'em, etc.

We were getting sloppy while trying out shoot each other on the timer.

Trying to get faster splits, transitions and draws at the cost of points are ruts we do not need to make.

Day 2 I suggested no Timer.

Duh, we shot way better points and felt way better about what had been acomplished.

Try it.

[jaredr]

agree and disagree.

I'll usually work a specific drill against the timer, trying to determine where i start to fall apart as I increase speed. once i figure out which drills i am weakest on, I'll usually put the timer away or back the par time way off and work on technique for that drill. as I start to improve, then i'll work at building the speed back up.

MEU SOC qual drill is a good example. running a timer, i am ok on par times for drills #2 -8. Drill # 1 i have lots o problems, so first take the timer off completely, working on just accurate fire (2 rds standing, 2 kneeling, then slowly work out transition to prone). Then when I've got it down (or at least sufficiently improved to move on), I'll re-introduce the timer but only to the first 2 out of 3 firing positions (standing and transition to kneeling). after two range sessions, I still don't have that down with sufficient speed and accuracy to introduce the transition to prone, so I'll stay on the first 2 positions, slowly increasing time until I'm ready to make it harder by introducing the 2nd transition (into prone).

do think you've got a great point about dropping the timer and working on accuracy first. if you can't make the hits on the clock, just get rid of the clock and work on making the hits. do think that the timer adds value by introducing some stress and giving you real feedback about exactly how long it's taking you to deliver the accuracy you want.

-jared

[Get'em Duck]

I always shoot better with out the timer, but it doesn't help me on game day. So for me practice has to be with the timer till it becomes a non issue.

But what ever works for each individual is what they need to do.

If it works for you then GREAT

~bjw

[xsniper]

I always shoot better with out the timer, but it doesn't help me on game day. So for me practice has to be with the timer till it becomes a non issue.

But what ever works for each individual is what they need to do.

If it works for you then GREAT

~bjw

I love to see ya post Get'emDuck...your avitar and comments are great

[Pezco]

I'm with Duck and Jared on this one. The timer puts stress on my practice runs and allows me to find when I've gone past my 100% (all 'A's) mark and at what time. This has allowed me to increase my draw/first shot speed significantly.

[Lee King]

I'm not a GM or even an A so I still have a lot to learn. This is just my observation at my point in the game.

Everybody is probably different in the way different training methods affect them. For me, the timer was great to help me realize I COULD go fast. I thought I had fast splits and transitions until I picked up Anderson's book. When I started with his suggested par times to start I got a wake up call. So for a year I used the timer and recorded my progress of bumping that par time down. It really helped me realize what fast was and that I COULD go fast. But then I started getting pretty sloppy on match day. And during dry fire I started noticing I was "breaking" the shot during all over the place on the target just to be able to push that time down a tad more. So I put the timer aside.

Now I just try to focus on execution. It seems when I made the choice to forget about time my scores actually went up. When I was using it constantly during practice I still focused on it during the match. I would rush and my execution fell off. I use the timer now to test and experiment. I.e. if you have to run side to side is it better to run L-R or R-L (assuming no reload). Is it better to index my draw this way vs. that way?

Of course having said that, I still have a hard time shaking the "time" when I step up to a classifier and it shows.

[bkeeler]

I agree the timer does have it's uses, it can also get in the way of the fundamentals,causing rushing during the shooting and causing us as shooters to beat the best time we had that day(sometimes is good). Now you go to the match with expectations of the practice session and bomb the match. I often in live fire practice just use the timer for the start beep and don't look at the time.

Then there are times when I use the timer for specific areas of my shooting draw,splits,reloads, how long did it take me from my last shot at the first position to my first shot at the second position. Over all time really does not matter if you are sacrificing points and/or misses.

It is good just to go out and shoot as fast as you can once in a while with out even using the timer. If you are pushing to hard you no it,but we need to push to improve just be aware of what is happening when you do push and use the timer to check your progress every now and then.

YMMV

BK

[short_round]

"Feelings" are not a very reliable method of measuring performance ... use the timer ... don't chase it.

[Flyin40]

A friend and I were shooting some three target drills. You know, near to far, left to right, move and shoot'em, etc.

We were getting sloppy while trying out shoot each other on the timer.

Trying to get faster splits, transitions and draws at the cost of points are ruts we do not need to make.

Day 2 I suggested no Timer.

Duh, we shot way better points and felt way better about what had been acomplished.

Try it.

I got rid of the timer a couple of yrs ago and only recently bought one to shoot airsoft postal matches at home. Don't practice with it all the time, you can use it just to check progress. You can get so concerned with beating the buzzer your technique will suffer.

If you already have great fundementals and understand what your doing there is less of a chance that the timer will hurt you. It mostly applies to newer shooters who have yet to get a good grasp on everything.

Use the timer but don't live and die by it

Also don't be afraid to use the timer some to push yourself like you and your buddy was doing. If can give you a point of reference. Record your time and your pts and you will be able to see where your points start suffering. Practice more, do drills for awhile do it again and see if you can push the time down without your points suffering.

This really applies to hosers(used to be me) who are more concerned with time than points. If your one of those guys who shoot a ton of points but always find that their times are slow I would suggest using a timer more.

Flyin

Edited September 9, 2009 by Flyin40

[DJM3808]

The practice drills that make the most sense to me are the ones with a timer and you add time to your run (penalties) for anything less than A zone hits,

like C = +3 seconds.

Your under pressure from the clock but your teaching yourself to score max points as well.

[benos]

A friend and I were shooting some three target drills. You know, near to far, left to right, move and shoot'em, etc.

We were getting sloppy while trying out shoot each other on the timer.

Trying to get faster splits, transitions and draws at the cost of points are ruts we do not need to make.

Day 2 I suggested no Timer.

Duh, we shot way better points and felt way better about what had been acomplished.

Try it.

Good stuff.

I did the majority of my Steel Challenge practice with a piece of tape over the timer. Now and then I'd peek at the time, just to keep my confidence up. Especially for a nice, clean run, almost always the time was faster than I thought it would be.

be

[CHA-LEE]

Part of this game is to train yourself to not rush things in a time pressure situation. Taking the timer out of it changes the game. I will always use a timer to start myself on a given live fire practice string of fire. I may not look at the time or examine the splits after shooting the string, but I will always have the buzzer to start me off. Every stage at a match has you starting off of a buzzer of some sort. Why would you not continually practice at shooting under those conditions? Sure you might be able to shoot "Better" when you are not under the pressure of a timer, but what does it matter since you are not shooting stages in those conditions? If you know you can't restrain yourself when you do use a timer then you know exactly what to work on. Right?

You can learn a lot about your shooting and efficiencies by setting par times for given strings of fire. Set a par time for maximum speed with acceptable hits, then switch it up and set a par time for all A's, or all head shots, or a certain portion of the A zone. Using par times to find your limit in these shooting tests sets a good line in the sand on your current skill level and gives you something to strive to beat by optimizing how you do things while shooting. A shot timer is a hugely powerful tool if you use it correctly. If you use it incorrectly then you get into a "Beat the time" mode of shooting and everything degrades in an effort to beat some magical time you have latched onto wanting to beat. If you are sacrificing the basic fundamentals of shooting to achieve some super fast time then you are just wasting your time.

[JRBean]

When I started using a timer for practice it really helped. I only used the par time on the timer for practice on my draws. Really helped alot. As far as practice stages or other drills I would only use the timer for the start beep and to gauge results. The par setting was more of a distraction during stages or other drills for me. Before using a timer I had now way of knowing if trying different ways of approaching targets was helping or hurting. For example would it be better to stand and engage a certain array or engage on the move. My performances at matches were more up and down as compared to after I started using a timer. It helped me build consistency and learn what worked and what didn't. Guess it all just depends on how you use it.

[TWHaz]

OK, I am getting the responses I was looking for.

I am not saying to never use a timer.

I am saying if chaseing the timer is leading to the wrong results, to run without a timer for a while and just watch/feel.

As brian stated, after a while you will know when you have a good run.

Use a timer, don't let the timer use you.

Edited September 11, 2009 by TWHaz

[Flyin40]

Part of this game is to train yourself to not rush things in a time pressure situation.

This says alot. Your already thinking about beating the timer before you even start, your thinking about rushing and time. It took me several yrs to really understand your statement because I used to think the same way and still fight it now. Shooting an A is shooting an A regardless of the timer. Your not trying to beat the timer.

Taking the timer out of it changes the game. I will always use a timer to start myself on a given live fire practice string of fire. I may not look at the time or examine the splits after shooting the string, but I will always have the buzzer to start me off. Every stage at a match has you starting off of a buzzer of some sort. Why would you not continually practice at shooting under those conditions? Sure you might be able to shoot "Better" when you are not under the pressure of a timer, but what does it matter since you are not shooting stages in those conditions? If you know you can't restrain yourself when you do use a timer then you know exactly what to work on. Right?

Taking the timer out doesn't change anything. I don't really use it because it really doesn't matter if its there or not. You still have to do the same thing to shoot an A on a timer or off a timer. An A is an A. Starting with a timer helps your with your reaction time. Should be .25 or less but .20 is what I want to be under. You speak of shooting under conditions?? Your talking about conditions your putting on yourself. Your telling yourself its different because your using a timer but its not. You have to learn to shoot without those self imposed conditions you set on yourself. This could be with a timer or could be without one. Each person is different, you have to figure out what works for you.

You can learn a lot about your shooting and efficiencies by setting par times for given strings of fire. Set a par time for maximum speed with acceptable hits, then switch it up and set a par time for all A's, or all head shots, or a certain portion of the A zone. Using par times to find your limit in these shooting tests sets a good line in the sand on your current skill level and gives you something to strive to beat by optimizing how you do things while shooting. A shot timer is a hugely powerful tool if you use it correctly. If you use it incorrectly then you get into a "Beat the time" mode of shooting and everything degrades in an effort to beat some magical time you have latched onto wanting to beat. If you are sacrificing the basic fundamentals of shooting to achieve some super fast time then you are just wasting your time.

Your right on here. Its a very effective tool if you use it right. You have to learn that regardless of a timer or not your shooting has to be relaxed and observant. Thats the hard thing to do with a timer. If your one of those people take a break from a timer and just see what you need to see to shoot an A. Go back to the timer to check progress.

I think there a couple different ways to use a timer. The first is to check out your shooting. Splits, transiitons, reloads and draws. This is what I was talking about above.

The other part is using the timer to check movements. To really figure out which is the smoothest and most efficient way to move will really show up on the timer. Though your shooting the idea of the drill is to find out what is the fastest for you to get from one spot to the next, not the shooting but the movement. This is where its starts to get hard. How can you really get after movements on a stage without it affecting your shooting?? How can your really attack a stage while still being smooth and relaxed in your shooting. Smooth=Fast

I think this is an advanced topic in Uspsa shooting. I'm not saying to have to be way up in the finishes for class to be able to understand it but its something a begginner really struggles with. Anyone can understand it and execute it but in the beginning this sport has so much going on with shooting, reloading, running around, swingers and movers. Its really hard for someone starting to understand the when your shooting time shouldn't matter. All they hear is "what did you run it in", "how fast did you shot it", "man xxxx shot it in xxxx".

See what you need to see, be efficient and smooth in your movements and the time will be there. If its not what you think it should be then do drills and practice to improve it. That can be with a timer or without it.........or both.

Flyin

[bkeeler]

I sure could not have said that any better.

Nice post! Flyin40.

BK

[LPatterson]

Having just returned from the Nationals, I can testify that a timer can be your friend or your worst enemy. The people who shot my stage the best seemed to be those who knew how long it took to execute a certain task. That may have been target to target transitions or 130 degree transitions back and forth. Those that tried to rush to beat a time did not always fare as well as those who seemed to flow through the stage.

[TWHaz]

Having just returned from the Nationals, I can testify that a timer can be your friend or your worst enemy. The people who shot my stage the best seemed to be those who knew how long it took to execute a certain task. That may have been target to target transitions or 130 degree transitions back and forth. Those that tried to rush to beat a time did not always fare as well as those who seemed to flow through the stage.

I agree Leroy. What I want to put forth is, If during practice we focus more on beating the last time on the clock ( at the cost in points or sloopy technique) rather than shooting what we see. It may benifit to make a few runs without the timer. That way you can get back to shooting your sights/dot and get a honest average in where you are on transitions, box to box, draws, etc.