627-4 .38Super brass question

[Peakbagr]

Just ironing out the kinks in load development now.

Took to Super to the range a couple of hours ago and could use your advice. I have Remington-Peters 38 Super brass. It seems that the rim of the R-P brass is too narrow to catch the inside edge of the extractor star.

This does 2 things - I can't kick the brass out & because the rim doesn't catch the extractor, the brass sits too far forward in the cylinder, causing many light hammer strikes.

Is R-P brass too narrow at the rim or does the gun need to take a trip back to Smith and Wesson for a new extractor, one that will catch the rim of the brass?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

Edited September 5, 2009 by Peakbagr

[sci]

Just ironing out the kinks in load development now.

Took to Super to the range a couple of hours ago and could use your advice. I have Remington-Peters 38 Super brass. It seems that the rim of the R-P brass is too narrow to catch the inside edge of the extractor star.

This does 2 things - I can't kick the brass out & because the rim doesn't catch the extractor, the brass sits too far forward in the cylinder, causing many light hammer strikes.

Is R-P brass too narrow at the rim or does the gun need to take a trip back to Smith and Wesson for a new extractor, one that will catch the rim of the brass?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

ummm try useing a moonclip

[Peakbagr]

Ouch, can't believe I did this. I am so embarassed. In my haste to get over to the range with the limited time I had today, completly forgot to bring the clips, thinking it was one of my non-clip revolvers.

If I could remove my embarassing post, I'd do it.

Wow, bonehead post on my part !

Just ironing out the kinks in load development now.

Took to Super to the range a couple of hours ago and could use your advice. I have Remington-Peters 38 Super brass. It seems that the rim of the R-P brass is too narrow to catch the inside edge of the extractor star.

This does 2 things - I can't kick the brass out & because the rim doesn't catch the extractor, the brass sits too far forward in the cylinder, causing many light hammer strikes.

Is R-P brass too narrow at the rim or does the gun need to take a trip back to Smith and Wesson for a new extractor, one that will catch the rim of the brass?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

ummm try useing a moonclip

[Bubber]

Ouch, can't believe I did this. I am so embarassed. In my haste to get over to the range with the limited time I had today, completly forgot to bring the clips, thinking it was one of my non-clip revolvers.

If I could remove my embarassing post, I'd do it.

Wow, bonehead post on my part !

Just ironing out the kinks in load development now.

Took to Super to the range a couple of hours ago and could use your advice. I have Remington-Peters 38 Super brass. It seems that the rim of the R-P brass is too narrow to catch the inside edge of the extractor star.

This does 2 things - I can't kick the brass out & because the rim doesn't catch the extractor, the brass sits too far forward in the cylinder, causing many light hammer strikes.

Is R-P brass too narrow at the rim or does the gun need to take a trip back to Smith and Wesson for a new extractor, one that will catch the rim of the brass?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

ummm try useing a moonclip

Don't worry Steve nor I will say anything! Huh Steve. But it will cost ya. I never did that...Admit it I mean... later rdd

[Ray_Z]

Those of us waaaay over here in Ohio like to think of these times a senior moments. But I won't tell on you either.

[GrumpyOne]

I won't tell (right now anyway!), just send me all of your 38super brass and 5,000 primers and we'll forget the whole thing ever happemed.

[Peakbagr]

Thanks for letting me off the hook with all the smiles.

Heading back today....this time with my clips.

If I hadn't messed up yesterday, would have gone home and loaded a bunch and be at the local match right now.

Peakbagr

I won't tell (right now anyway!), just send me all of your 38super brass and 5,000 primers and we'll forget the whole thing ever happemed.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Peakbagr

[hearthco]

Ouch, can't believe I did this. I am so embarassed. In my haste to get over to the range with the limited time I had today, completly forgot to bring the clips, thinking it was one of my non-clip revolvers.

If I could remove my embarassing post, I'd do it.

Wow, bonehead post on my part !

Just ironing out the kinks in load development now.

Took to Super to the range a couple of hours ago and could use your advice. I have Remington-Peters 38 Super brass. It seems that the rim of the R-P brass is too narrow to catch the inside edge of the extractor star.

This does 2 things - I can't kick the brass out & because the rim doesn't catch the extractor, the brass sits too far forward in the cylinder, causing many light hammer strikes.

Is R-P brass too narrow at the rim or does the gun need to take a trip back to Smith and Wesson for a new extractor, one that will catch the rim of the brass?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

ummm try useing a moonclip

If you purchase 50 Hearthco moonclips, I can arrange to have the post and the memories of all involved removed. Dave

[Bubber]

Ouch, can't believe I did this. I am so embarassed. In my haste to get over to the range with the limited time I had today, completly forgot to bring the clips, thinking it was one of my non-clip revolvers.

If I could remove my embarassing post, I'd do it.

Wow, bonehead post on my part !

Just ironing out the kinks in load development now.

Took to Super to the range a couple of hours ago and could use your advice. I have Remington-Peters 38 Super brass. It seems that the rim of the R-P brass is too narrow to catch the inside edge of the extractor star.

This does 2 things - I can't kick the brass out & because the rim doesn't catch the extractor, the brass sits too far forward in the cylinder, causing many light hammer strikes.

Is R-P brass too narrow at the rim or does the gun need to take a trip back to Smith and Wesson for a new extractor, one that will catch the rim of the brass?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

ummm try useing a moonclip

If you purchase 50 Hearthco moonclips, I can arrange to have the post and the memories of all involved removed. Dave

Uh? Whut Post?

[chirpy]

I think an hour in the corner reciting "This is my speed loader, this is my Moon Clip!" is in order...

JMHO

Richard

[Peakbagr]

Well.....another session at the range today, this time with my moonclips loaded.

The Super is turning into a real challenge. I'm waiting for some recommended Zero bullets to arrive from backorder, and the 130gr Rainiers are all over the paper.

A bigger concern arose, however. I'm using Remington Peters .38 Super brass, either new or fired once. About 1x or 2x a cylinder, the cylinder locks up and I need to put a thin bladed jacknife blade beind the fired case, give it a little push, and I then open the cylinder.

Happened yesterday and consistently today.

The brass is not stretched or oversized, the loaded round drops neatly into a .38Super cartridge gauge, but some are sticking.

I'm using both Ranch and the S&W clips that came with the gun, happens with both. With 5gr of 231 under the Rainier, that shouldn't be doing anything to the primer or brass, and a little scootch with the tip of the jacknife blade pushing the cartridge a tad farther into the cylinder, and I'm good to go.

Its a pain in the butt now, but nothing I could have in matches, which is the purpose of the Super.

I suppose I could ship it back to Smith, but I'd rather not if you guys have some ideas.

Sorry to be a bother with this. If it were winter and no matches going on here, it would be less frustrating.

Thanks again.

[sci]

Well.....another session at the range today, this time with my moonclips loaded.

The Super is turning into a real challenge. I'm waiting for some recommended Zero bullets to arrive from backorder, and the 130gr Rainiers are all over the paper.

A bigger concern arose, however. I'm using Remington Peters .38 Super brass, either new or fired once. About 1x or 2x a cylinder, the cylinder locks up and I need to put a thin bladed jacknife blade beind the fired case, give it a little push, and I then open the cylinder.

Happened yesterday and consistently today.

The brass is not stretched or oversized, the loaded round drops neatly into a .38Super cartridge gauge, but some are sticking.

I'm using both Ranch and the S&W clips that came with the gun, happens with both. With 5gr of 231 under the Rainier, that shouldn't be doing anything to the primer or brass, and a little scootch with the tip of the jacknife blade pushing the cartridge a tad farther into the cylinder, and I'm good to go.

Its a pain in the butt now, but nothing I could have in matches, which is the purpose of the Super.

I suppose I could ship it back to Smith, but I'd rather not if you guys have some ideas.

Sorry to be a bother with this. If it were winter and no matches going on here, it would be less frustrating.

Thanks again.

You may want to check the fireing pin bushing and make sure it is flush with the frame.

I just had that happen on a new smith and it required a new frame to repair

Steve

[GrumpyOne]

I'm having somewhat of the same thing happen with some new R&P nickle brass in my STI Trubor. Brand new brass, all of it case gauges, but have several that have failure to feed. Finally shot the rest of the R&P I had loaded today (I bought 1,000 Starline brass the other day, loaded and ran it it, no problems). Maybe the brass? If you have a source for other brass, load some of those up and see what happens.

[Bubber]

Well.....another session at the range today, this time with my moonclips loaded.

The Super is turning into a real challenge. I'm waiting for some recommended Zero bullets to arrive from backorder, and the 130gr Rainiers are all over the paper.

A bigger concern arose, however. I'm using Remington Peters .38 Super brass, either new or fired once. About 1x or 2x a cylinder, the cylinder locks up and I need to put a thin bladed jacknife blade beind the fired case, give it a little push, and I then open the cylinder.

Happened yesterday and consistently today.

The brass is not stretched or oversized, the loaded round drops neatly into a .38Super cartridge gauge, but some are sticking.

I'm using both Ranch and the S&W clips that came with the gun, happens with both. With 5gr of 231 under the Rainier, that shouldn't be doing anything to the primer or brass, and a little scootch with the tip of the jacknife blade pushing the cartridge a tad farther into the cylinder, and I'm good to go.

Its a pain in the butt now, but nothing I could have in matches, which is the purpose of the Super.

I suppose I could ship it back to Smith, but I'd rather not if you guys have some ideas.

Sorry to be a bother with this. If it were winter and no matches going on here, it would be less frustrating.

Thanks again.

You may want to check the fireing pin bushing and make sure it is flush with the frame.

I just had that happen on a new smith and it required a new frame to repair

Steve

I would concur with sci here and would check the firing pin bushig to see if it is loose and causing the primer to back into the rebound shield and lock into the divot created by a loose bushing. I'm not a smith so your guess could be as good as mine. I like the moly 160 and 170 graind from Billy Bullets but I only shoot minor. Good luck rdd

[Bubber]

One other note, Take a look at the primers when you have the symptons and see if the primer is out just beyond flush of the case. If it is rounded it may indicate the loose or firing pin busing problem. If it is flat, the problem may lie in excessive headspace allowing the primer to back out more and locking it up that way and maybe causing the firing pin to stick until the case is moved and then reset allowing it to open. It is sort of hard to cover all the possible causes of any sympton over the computer because we skip the easy stuff and go right to the technical stuff. Again good luck later rdd

[David Sinko]

I had the exact same problem with my 627-4 when I used R-P brass and 231. I believe it was a combination of the tight fit of the brass in the moonclips (both the S&W slotted moonclips and those from TK) and the dirty 231 powder. After a while I learned to use Starline brass and Clays. I never had any problems after that. My gun was very fickle with most all other components, which is why I got rid of it. Try some cast bullets in yours and you may be in for a very rude awakening. Cast bullets out of mine would hit sideways at five yards. I never had any problems with plated bullets other than using too much crimp once which caused the plating to separate, putting two holes on the target for each shot fired. My 627 caused me to lose faith in all new S&W revolvers and I've been buying used ever since.

Dave Sinko

[Stlhead]

I have not fund any 38 super brass that I am happy with yet. I have tried starline, winchester, and remington, and none have a satisfactory fit in the Hearthco moon clips I have. Anyone have any suggestions? Different brass or different clips seem to be in order. As for bullets, mine loves the .355 124 gr JHP from Montana Gold.

[Bubber]

stlhead, Will the Brass not fit in the clips at all or are they extremly tight when all are loaded? I have two different hearthco moonclips. One is a 9mm clip and the other is his older stainless. Both work in my 627. I have on ocassion tried and loaded my 686 cut for 38 super with a 6 shot 38 special clip complete with 38 special rounds. They went off but could not resize the 38 special to work in my other smith, Dave will probably chime n in a few with some expert advise. later rdd

[Stlhead]

They hold the brass, but are very sloppy compared to the way the brass is held in my other clips. I am wondering if it is a function of the shape of the groove as compared with the other cases? Or if possibly the clips where miss-marked by accident and I somehow ended up with the wrong ones.

[Jaxshooter]

I have had the same problems. I finally bought 2000 pieces of new Starline brass and had a friend of mine make mooncclips to fit the brass. I have not had a single problem since then. The only problem I have now is that the ICORE club here is no longer shooting.

[David Sinko]

What do you consider a proper fit? Many shooters like the brass to be held very tightly by the moonclips so that there is no wobble. I remember my old gunsmith Art Leckie told me that when shooting pins he would super glue the cartridges to the moonclips to eliminate all wobble, and then boil them after they were fired to break the glue hold. To me this illustrates an extreme attempt to eliminate the wobble, but I never thought it was necessary or even desireable for fast relolads. As far as the 627-4 is concerned, tight fitting brass never worked well at all for me. Winchester and Remington fit tightly in both the supplied S&W slotted moonclips and the TK moonclips that I subsequently bought. Extraction always proved difficult. I bought Starline brass and the fit was not as tight in either moonclip, meaning I could freely turn the clipped cartridge without any resistance. Of course they were not so loose that there was a danger of falling out. I found that a very clean burning powder (I chose Clays) helped tremendously. The Holy Grail in my revolver was Starline brass, Clays, Federal primer and plated bullets with minimal crimp. Anything other than Starline brass would be very problematic, all other things being equal. I'm sure there are other clean powders that will work in place of Clays but I never bothered to experiment once I realized Clays worked so well.

The 627-4s seem very sensitive to component variations. Mine was not at all like my 625s, which function perfectly with everything. But that one load I had for my Super did function perfectly, and I could put hundreds of rounds through it without needing to clean it to keep it running properly.

Dave Sinko

[Stlhead]

I consider a good fit to be when the brass is able to spin in the clip, but is held so that it can't tilt more than a few degrees (generally pretty straight). The starline brass fits loose enough in the clips I have that if you hold a loaded moon clip primers down and tilt it left and right the rounds will actually flop back and forth a great deal in the clip with very little effort. They will go into the cylinder, but not as consistent as a tighter fitting rig. I have been pushed to using 38 short colt in the gun until I can resolve the clip issue (starline brass and hearthco clips are great with this combo for me). Am I too demanding of the fit between brass and clip?

[jjanglin]

My 627 super shoots about anything I put in it, iuse the moonclips brownells sells , I got the gun in an

unfired condition and did the usual chamfer and poilishing/ some trigger work, Its not as accurate as

Id like but it works fine. Ive found that 4756 and 158 grain bullets lrn work pretty well.

Longshot works with the same bullets, titegroup is too dang dirty.

I put a shilen barrel on a 686 I converted to super and it has turned out to be a tack driver with the same loads

as the 627.

If I get some time Im going to put a lothar walther polygon barrel on the 627-4 just for stuff and giggles

to see what it will do.

My 627 is one of the older ones.

Jim

Sailors

[David Sinko]

What was the diameter of those 158 gr. cast bullets? Mine would not shoot any cast bullets worth a damn and every size and shape that I could get into the cylinder would keyhole at even close range. That was my biggest gripe about that gun. The action and workmanship on mine were nice but I suspect the cylinder throat/bore relationship was uncouth. I remember shooting the PSA Shootout and other owners of the 627-4 were complaining even more bitterly about the quality of their revolvers. They were crying about all kinds of glaring faults with their guns. The overall quality of mine was quite good but I hated the fact that mine wouldn't shoot cast bullets. I also felt they could've made it at least FIRE without the need for moonclips, just like a good 625. If that were the case I probably would've overlooked the sticky extraction I had with R-P and Win. brass.

There are times I really regret not having an 8 shooter anymore, but if I had it to do all over again I'd buy a 627 Pro. I've seen a lot of inconsistency with these Supers and I find that totally unacceptable in an expensive PC product.

Dave Sinko

[Carmoney]

It's funny, I've never really been all that excited about the .38 Super revolvers either, but the guys at the IRC seem to just love them. Look around at that match, I swear you'd see half the 627-4s in existence walking around in people's holsters.....