dajarrel Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Hey guys, What is your preference? Do you shoot major, go for speed and take the lesser penalty for "c's" and "d's", or do you shoot minor and make sure you shoot all "A's" ? I've been shooting limited in C class and have decided to see if I can swell the ranks of revolver shooters. I have a 610 with a 4" barrel that has a sweet trigger and I have camfered (sp) the cylinder so that reloads are almost a dream. I'm just curious to know what other revolver shooters are doing? thanks in advance Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I just started shooting Production where all scoring is minor. Minor scoring will kill you. I shot major with my 610, and I wouldn't even consider minor unless I was a top notch gunslinger deluxe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I shoot major and go for all A's. It just never works out that way. Seriously, major is the only way to go if you want to be competitive. If you want to tilt at windmills, try open minor sometime, right Bubber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Major is better, however shooting A's with better gun handling skill works too. I have won 3 Area 1 Top Revolver Trophies and the 1998 Open Nats Top Revolver and 1999 Limited Nats all shooting minor(BTW, Jerry Miculek was not shooting at any of these events) A's is what it is all about with a wheelgun...I proved it 5 times :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Bill: I agree that points across the target faces is vital. I think we all know that given similar ability as far as speed, the guy with the most A zone hits will win. Where major scoring has saved my bacon is on the tight shots with a lot of hard cover and/or no-shoots covering up the A-zone. Head shots are a good example. I gotta ask, if you were to shoot a match with Miculek, Bitow, Waldinger, and Bud Bond thrown into the mix do you think shooting minor would be much of a disadvantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I would stick with shooting major. I shoot a 625 for matches, have never shot the 610. Shooting major out of the 625 is not that big of deal. If you get the right load made up the gun will have little recoil. I don't know if the 610 would be a little more snappy shooting major or not. I also shoot some ICORE matches and their power factor is only 120. I didn't spend a lot of time working up loads for that match, but when I was all done, I hadn't really downloaded the loads just all that much. Ron, I have shot in matches against the Gentleman you named in your post. It is hard enough to keep up with those guys shooting major, I couldn't imagine trying to do it and shooting minor. One bad stage and your toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 You might be able to catch up shooting minor because you would have a really, really soft shooting gun which would be fast, but why? Shooting minor leaves little room for error. I have talked to Jerry Miculek several times about the load he uses in his 625 and to tell you the truth, theres nothing magical it, he chronographed at 178pf this year at Area 4 and he smoked everyone. My suggestion, shoot major and practice alot, don't sell yourself short shooting minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I haven't studied Revolver score enough to know what kind of hit factors wheel gunners turn in. I gotta think that the hit factors would be low enough to favor shooting for lots of points? Like Ron says...some stages make it pretty tough to get to the Alpha hits. Non-alpha hits in minor suck the scores down pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Not exactly for Revolvers, but I still wanted to mention it: I shoot PF 150 with my G17 competing in IPSC PD. I am able to fight off most other competitors, although they have much less recoil than I because they shoot at about PF 127. It's not all about recoil. If PD would have major scoring as well, I would move to major. For scoring reasons and because I like big booms . Once you are able to handle the recoil consistently, you're doing OK. I believe Brian has also written words to that effect in his book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 It is easier to shoot minor than major. You can be competitive shooting minor (Daniel Roch proved that by finishing 2nd on the WS, with 84% of Jerr M.) In the end, it is important what YOU like to shoot. I shoot major BTW (and need to work on my load, 'cause right now I'm shooting 180+PF ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 "It is easier to shoot minor than major." Why do you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Jake: Revolvers are a whole different breed when compared to an auto. A revolver has a totally different impulse and there is no slide/spring combination to help the gun return to point of aim. The weight of the barrel and the shooter return the gun to the sighting plane, so in general terms, the sight will track up and down faster with the lighter loads. Even though I have shot a revolver for years and years, I have never shot a minor load in an IPSC revolver. I know for a fact that I could shoot one of my old PPC guns a lot faster with a minor .38 load than I can shoot a 610 or a 625 with major loads because of the recoil and the fact that the PPC guns are K frame revolvers. When I consider the balance of speed vs. accuracy, it seems like major is the way to go, but I don't have any experience to base that claim on. The more I think about this thread, the more I realize that I could be way off track. I am going to defer to spook and Bill because they most certainly do have the experience (personal and observed) to support what they are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 (and need to work on my load, 'cause right now I'm shooting 180+PF ) Why ? Isn't that enough In my 686 I shoot PF 197 BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Thanks Ron. Not saying that it's wrong of course, just trying to get a better understanding of why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 "It is easier to shoot minor than major."Why do you think that? I'd have to agree... I don't know about the wheel guns, but I can most certainly shoot Minor better(faster...all other things being equal) in my Glock. Shooting Major, I have to actively "work" the recoil...drive the gun...whatever you want to call it. Shooting Minor, it feels like I am shooting an arcade gun...pull the trigger and zip to the next target...recoil becomes less of a factor. I can grip lighter and stand looser (Pardon my abuse of the written word). I do think that shooting the light and flippy Glock at Major has helped to refine my shooting, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Shooting Major, I have to actively "work" the recoil...drive the gun...whatever you want to call it.Shooting Minor, it feels like I am shooting an arcade gun...pull the trigger and zip to the next target...recoil becomes less of a factor. I can grip lighter and stand looser (Pardon my abuse of the written word). [Thread drift ON] But how is that with a heavily-comped Open pistol ? I have never shot one (yet) but when I see people shoot them it sure looks easy ? [Thread drift OFF] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Jake, I agree with what Ron and Flex said. I'm not saying you cannot shoot as fast and accurate with major, but your vision needs to work harder tracking the sights. I've noticed the same thing with auto's, but there's definately less difference with auto major/minor in the sight tracking department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted November 1, 2003 Author Share Posted November 1, 2003 Folks, Thanks for the replies. Right now I am experimenting with minor and major loads for a month or so to see just which will be the best for me. It will really be determined by if I can consistantly hit "A's" with decent speed. Also, one of the things to consider is the pounding your wrist takes with a revolver and major loads. I know I'm a wimp, but two hundred rounds of ~170 pf loads will beat you to death (even with those rubber grips)!!!!!! I know, exercise and practice will reduce that but I ain't there yet!!!!! Thanks again Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Dennis, I lot of the recoil control issues that new(er) competition shooters face can be fixed with propper technique. It can be pretty amazing once you get it right. [Thread drift ON]But how is that with a heavily-comped Open pistol ? I have never shot one (yet) but when I see people shoot them it sure looks easy ? [Thread drift OFF] A comp gun is a completely different ball game. For me, with a properly setup Open gun, I have to really relax behind the gun. The Open gun will do all the work...if you let it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Garfield, I tried a comped revolver with Major loads. It takes a toll on the arms. The muzzle flip waz cut down extremely. however the backward jolt was not taken out. I had two 1 inch diameter face plates at the end of the barrel with the side cuts. This was on a 38 revo. On the larger bores you can get more of a push going instead of a snap which may make a difference. There was a thread asking about changing the Powerfactor required for Revos. I would like to see it all scored as major even if we are looking at only 130 powerfactor. Like they say it would not affect anyone else as we revo shoooters would ony be competing against other revo shooters,( yea right). And it would be nice to have an open revo class for all the eight shots and comped revos out there. Meds wearin off gotta go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 When I started, it was shooting a S&W 19 (.357 w/ 4" barrel) with 38 Spl (minor) loads. I got tired of getting dinged by C and D hits, and by steel that didn't go down easily. (Was it a good hit on a poorly calibrated target, or just a poor hit). Over a year, I found myself loading the 38s hotter and hotter to down steel reliably. Ended up at 140 to 145 PF, but still minor, without noticeable loss of speed due to increased recoil. So this year, I switched to major in .357 with the same gun. Not much more trouble controlling the recoil, but enough to affect double-tap times a little. Shooting with Jerry M and other revos at the 2003 FGNs convinced me that my biggest problem was the 4" sight radius, so I've switched to an L frame 586 with 6" barrel and full underlug. Now, the .357 major loads have less effect on the heavier gun, and the sight radius has improved my paper and steel targeting. The cylinder is out for conversion to moon clips, which I hope is the final piece of the puzzle, to improving reloading times. BTW, the top revo shooters shoot fast AND get almost all As as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I shoot a 610 classic with the 6.5" full underlug barrel with major loads in it. Sometimes I shoot 40's loaded to major, other times I shoot the full size 10 mm's, depends on whay I have on hand. Even with full power loads, I seem to do ok with it and gat a fair # of A's, I just don't get all that great times with it (need to work on those reloads). Counting rounds comes in handy too since I normally shoot a hi-cap limited gun. (I only have 6 rounds, I only have 6 rounds!). Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 sargenv, as my son is used to saying, " I feel your pain!!!" boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,click....... damn..... reload boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,click....... damn..... reload repeat to end of COF Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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