Glock ESP best set up?

[grizzlywon]

I have a G35 and want to know what my best chances are for making the best ESP gun for IDPA out of it.

I was thinking:

-Alloy frame.

-SS guide rod.

-SS magwell.

What is your experience and what magwells will even fit the alloy frame. Or can you even put a magwell on the alloy frame and keep it under weight. What about a plastic magwell. I've also noticed that the alloy frames don't have the typical channel in the back of the grip where most magwells mount.

Thanks in advance.

Edited July 3, 2009 by grizzlywon

[nwb01]

Why not just leave it alone and shoot it in ESP ??

[vetts1911]

A few of I know run it like this,

Lone Wolf Barrel

Magwell

Base pads that are less than a .5 ounce from the stock weight (if I remember correctl)

[badchad]

I was thinking:

-Alloy frame.

I bet you would regret it. Search the forum and you'll find loads of complaints.

[grizzlywon]

Why not just leave it alone and shoot it in ESP ??

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

Edited July 4, 2009 by grizzlywon

[mike4045]

Lone Wolf barrel, cut off 3 coils and use a stock rod. Nice 180 gr lite load. I did go with Truglo fiber optic/ night site combos. No magwell. 25cent trigger job.

I have not heard much good about the aftermarket frames.

It is my production setup also.

[grizzlywon]

I was thinking:

-Alloy frame.

I bet you would regret it. Search the forum and you'll find loads of complaints.

The complaints that I saw were people complaining about factory loads beating their guns up and the buffer that was supposed to help with this. I won't have that problem with 125PF.

Another question. Anybody know how hard this alloy is? I know I will have to remove some metal from the frame to get it in the weight range. This also leads me to bleieve that only a plastic magwell will work as a metal one would put us way over on weight. That is if there is a magwell that fits.

I will go ahead and email the manufacture and post their reply here.

Edited July 4, 2009 by grizzlywon

[steel1212]

Why not just leave it alone and shoot it in ESP ??

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

What can you add to a Glock that is going to make you any faster in ESP?

[badchad]

The complaints that I saw were people complaining about factory loads beating their guns up and the buffer that was supposed to help with this. I won't have that problem with 125PF.

I know a few people that had one. They're complaints were more extensive than that, and a few of them posted on this forum. Keep reading. Or better yet buy one. You'll see.

Also do you think that brick of a frame will speed your splits more than it slows your transitions?

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Use a 13lb ISMI recoil spring with 2 coils cut off. Stock guide rod, stock slide release, Dawson sights and a lightened trigger. I use 185 Precision bullets in the stock barrel. Thanks, Eric

[grizzlywon]

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

What can you add to a Glock that is going to make you any faster in ESP?

I already mentioned three things! A magwell for one.

[grizzlywon]

Also do you think that brick of a frame will speed your splits more than it slows your transitions?

A brink of a frame. That is like saying that every guy out there using an STI 1911 frame is stupid and slow. Great reasoning, but not accurate.

[grizzlywon]

Hello: Use a 13lb ISMI recoil spring with 2 coils cut off. Stock guide rod, stock slide release, Dawson sights and a lightened trigger. I use 185 Precision bullets in the stock barrel. Thanks, Eric

I'm already doing this in SSP. I'd like to do more!

just found the posts you are talking about.

looks like the smartest thing to do in ESP would be a SS Magwell and a SS guide rod.

Do you guys know of a legal Magwell? I know the Ice isn't legal due to the brass plug?

Edited July 4, 2009 by Duane Thomas

[badchad]

A heavier object is harder to start moving and harder to stop, maybe a smidge better on muzzle flip and a smidge worse on transitions. Basic physics. Then we come to reliability and in this case plastic puts the smack down on steel. Sure seems like you want one, so like I said buy it, you’ll see.

[eric nielsen]

With the short courses, 125 power factor, very little shooting on the move, and the 40oz weight limit, I see very few good reasons to shoot a CCF in IDPA. You'd have to take 3oz out of the frame - which is equal to about 1 to 1.25" off of the dust cover - and use plastic parts everywhere else. You're just as likely to have extraction failures at any power factor although the cure is out there in several posts including mine.

I think your money is much better spent on the plastic frame you have, heavy guide rod, and the heaviest magwell that's legal in IDPA. Probably a Dawson Super Heavy or a Novak [NHO] stainless steel well.

Or consider a Springfield XD-M with the big grip insert, magwell, and a lighter trigger than you can get on any glock.

My $.02

[Duane Thomas]

The complaints that I saw were people complaining about factory loads beating their guns up and the buffer that was supposed to help with this. I won't have that problem with 125PF.

Why not? The problem is that the slide hits the frame at the end of the recoil stroke. I'm not convinced that repeated applications of 130ish pf slide velocity won't trash the gun in short order. The little pink-orange buffers are intended to take the beating and stop that. Unfortunately they only last a few hundred rounds apiece and, last I heard, were ridiculously expensive to replace. Like $12 apiece, right? Every few hundred rounds? Pass.

[nwb01]

Why not just leave it alone and shoot it in ESP ??

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

What can you add to a Glock that is going to make you any faster in ESP?

NOTHING !

I would argue that there is no speeding up the gun. Good practice will speed you up, which in turn speeds up the gun.

Reliability is your friend, why compromise that for the next so called go fast part on a perfectly capable firearm in its stock (or slightly tuned) configuration. Yes, ESP has some room to enhance your gun but they can be used in both ESP and SSP.

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

What can you add to a Glock that is going to make you any faster in ESP?

I already mentioned three things! A magwell for one.

A magwell will do nothing for you in IDPA, you are typically doing one reload per stage. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE........ Will benefit you much more than any "enhancements" to your Glock to make it "faster".

Edited July 4, 2009 by nwb01

[steel1212]

Why not just stay in SSP at that rate? Isn't the whole point of ESP to be able to enhance your gun a little? I'd like to speed my gun up a bit.

What can you add to a Glock that is going to make you any faster in ESP?

I already mentioned three things! A magwell for one.

I'm not trying to argue with you I'm just trying to point somethings out.

A alloy frame won't make you shoot any faster, they have proven to be more trouble than they are worth

A magwell doesn't help you go any faster, it just catches those MISSED reloads. If your shooting SSP/Production you should already be hitting the factory hole now.

A SS guide rod isn't going to really help that much either other than adding some weight to a gun that your going to down load to feel like a .22 anyway.

Now if just want to add some parts to your gun, hey by all means do so, just don't get caught in the trap that by adding some parts its magically going to lower your time. Spend the time dryfiring with how ever you have the gun setup and you'll be leaps and bounds above the competition.

[Chuck Anderson]

Also do you think that brick of a frame will speed your splits more than it slows your transitions?

A brink of a frame. That is like saying that every guy out there using an STI 1911 frame is stupid and slow. Great reasoning, but not accurate.

You do realize that the STI uses a plastic grip, just like the Glock right? The piece of steel in an STI is pretty darn small. For the folks using an Edge that has more weight, the weight is out front and is there to counteract recoil, not make the gun faster. You don't need weight with a 125 PF load.

You asked the question about using a metal frame. Not one person has said it's a good idea. The multi world champs Vogel and Sevigny both use plastic frames. You can do whatever you want, but a metal frame is not going to help you at all in IDPA.

I'd also take a look at how big of a magwell you want. With Tactical Reloads, having a smaller magwell or none at all may be more beneficial.

If you really want to do something different to your gun, how about a Fulcrum or Vanek trigger, or stippling the grip, or maybe adding a beavertail to your polymer frame.

[grizzlywon]

For the guys who think you can't speed up a gun. You are just being argumentative. That's like saying that we should all be shooting stock guns, because an open gun is just a bunch of fancy crap added to no avail.

Secondly you who keep telling me that I just need to practice more have no idea how much I practice, nor do you have a clue about how you would do shooting against me. I have been shooting IDPA competitively for 4 years and practicing more than anyone else I shoot with, with the exception of one friend (who took 6th overall in production at the USPSA Nationals).

From what I have seen on most of these forums are guys that run their mouths a lot faster than their guns and who's egos are almost as big as their guts! So please don't treat me like a novice shooter, I assure you that I am not. When it comes to IDPA I'd put my money where my mouth is against most of you in a match any day.

Thirdly, I came here for some practical help on how to make the best ESP gun and all I get is a few guys telling me that I am stupid and that I should just shoot ESP with an SSP gun. Great advice! NOT!

Fourthly, I have listened to your remarks about the alloy frame and am now really not big on the idea. But I have contacted a few guys from here who are running them and like them. Maybe they just know a little about how to make a gun run with reloads. Probably more then the naysayers who don't even own one but love to bash them.

Fifthly, some of you keep saying that a magwell is pointless. WTH, if they didn't speed up your reloads, no one would ever bother putting one on their gun! Even if it is one or two reloads, in an IDPA match per stage that is still time off my score. Lets say they shave of .1 sec on a reload. .1x 10 reloads in a match is 1 sec. I have lost and won matches by .1, that is just not a good argument even if a magwell is less effective in IDPA than one in USPSA.

So until someone has something constructive and intelligent to say, save it.

For those who want to help a guy out and others on this forum and, the questions I still have are.

1. Anyone know of an all SS magwell that will fit in the IDPA box? (one that doesn't have a brass instert that would make it illegal, like the ICE?)

Ive seen the glockmister, (but it's not SS). Or the Novak one, NHO (is this one SS?). Can't find this one even on their site or with an internet search.

Other companies that make a SS one that will fit in the box?

2. How about a SS guide rod that is non captive an the right length?

Edited July 4, 2009 by grizzlywon

[Graham Smith]

I don't know much about IDPA rules, but I thought you could not use any weighted magwell, brass or stainless. If that is so, then you will probably be limited to an aluminum magwell like the JP

I recently did some research on Glock magwells and the only reference I could find to the NHO was for an XD and it's no longer listed for sale. But I did find an installation guide for an XD NHO and it was SS and had a brass plug.

As to guide rods, there are any number of vendors that have both captured and uncaptured SS guide rods. If you want a full length rod for a G35, you can get one from Jager.

What would appear to be legal and would be a good enhancement is an aftermarket trigger like the Vanek classic. If it is legal it will likely be the best $125 you can spend on your upgrade.

As to an alloy frame, I'm not sure what that brings to the table, but given the cost, it would likely be the last thing I would spend money on. I would also wonder if it was IDPA legal.

[steel1212]

For the guys who think you can't speed up a gun. You are just being argumentative. That's like saying that we should all be shooting stock guns, because an open gun is just a bunch of fancy crap added to no avail.

Secondly you who keep telling me that I just need to practice more have no idea how much I practice, nor do you have a clue about how you would do shooting against me. I have been shooting IDPA competitively for 4 years and practicing more than anyone else I shoot with, with the exception of one friend (who took 6th overall in production at the USPSA Nationals).

From what I have seen on most of these forums are guys that run their mouths a lot faster than their guns and who's egos are almost as big as their guts! So please don't treat me like a novice shooter, I assure you that I am not. When it comes to IDPA I'd put my money where my mouth is against most of you in a match any day. Come shoot with me then, I'm game

Thirdly, I came here for some practical help on how to make the best ESP gun and all I get is a few guys telling me that I am stupid and that I should just shoot ESP with an SSP gun. Great advice! NOT! You asked for advice and we gave what we thought. Funny how most people here agree with each other but not necessarily your ideas.

Fourthly, I have listened to your remarks about the alloy frame and am now really not big on the idea. But I have contacted a few guys from here who are running them and like them. Maybe they just know a little about how to make a gun run with reloads. Probably more then the naysayers who don't even own one but love to bash them. I've seen 3, first hand crack. Numerous people on here have had them crack and WE DO know how to make guns run with reloads, its not that hard.

Fifthly, some of you keep saying that a magwell is pointless. WTH, if they didn't speed up your reloads, no one would ever bother putting one on their gun! Even if it is one or two reloads, in an IDPA match per stage that is still time off my score. Lets say they shave of .1 sec on a reload. .1x 10 reloads in a match is 1 sec. I have lost and won matches by .1, that is just not a good argument even if a magwell is less effective in IDPA than one in USPSA. A lot of people put magwells on guns to help their grip position more than their reloads. IDPA legal magwells don't add much to the gun anyway.

So until someone has something constructive and intelligent to say, save it.

For those who want to help a guy out and others on this forum and, the questions I still have are.

1. Anyone know of an all SS magwell that will fit in the IDPA box? (one that doesn't have a brass instert that would make it illegal, like the ICE?)

Ive seen the glockmister, (but it's not SS). Or the Novak one, NHO (is this one SS?). Can't find this one even on their site or with an internet search.

Other companies that make a SS one that will fit in the box?

2. How about a SS guide rod that is non captive an the right length?

Sorry you don't agree with our suggestions.

[Chuck Anderson]

For the guys who think you can't speed up a gun. You are just being argumentative. That's like saying that we should all be shooting stock guns, because an open gun is just a bunch of fancy crap added to no avail.

Secondly you who keep telling me that I just need to practice more have no idea how much I practice, nor do you have a clue about how you would do shooting against me. I have been shooting IDPA competitively for 4 years and practicing more than anyone else I shoot with, with the exception of one friend (who took 6th overall in production at the USPSA Nationals).

From what I have seen on most of these forums are guys that run their mouths a lot faster than their guns and who's egos are almost as big as their guts! So please don't treat me like a novice shooter, I assure you that I am not. When it comes to IDPA I'd put my money where my mouth is against most of you in a match any day.

Thirdly, I came here for some practical help on how to make the best ESP gun and all I get is a few guys telling me that I am stupid and that I should just shoot ESP with an SSP gun. Great advice! NOT!

Fourthly, I have listened to your remarks about the alloy frame and am now really not big on the idea. But I have contacted a few guys from here who are running them and like them. Maybe they just know a little about how to make a gun run with reloads. Probably more then the naysayers who don't even own one but love to bash them.

Fifthly, some of you keep saying that a magwell is pointless. WTH, if they didn't speed up your reloads, no one would ever bother putting one on their gun! Even if it is one or two reloads, in an IDPA match per stage that is still time off my score. Lets say they shave of .1 sec on a reload. .1x 10 reloads in a match is 1 sec. I have lost and won matches by .1, that is just not a good argument even if a magwell is less effective in IDPA than one in USPSA.

So until someone has something constructive and intelligent to say, save it.

It's not about being argumentative. It's about answering the question you asked. Has ESP Divison ever been won at the IDPA Nationals with anything other than a gun with a plastic grip? STI/SV/Glock/XD? I don't know much about IDPA but I doubt it. You're right. Clearly the fact that someone who has won 6th place in a match beats you makes you an expert. I've taken 4th in that match, but what do I know.

The problem with magwells may or may not apply to you. I wouldn't use one for IDPA because I still do legitamate Tactical reloads, and having the extra ring of metal around the grip slows me down, a lot more than it speeds me up. It's not a matter of a mag well reducing my time, it increases it. If you're just doing reloads with retention and don't have two mags in your hand at the same time, it probably will speed you up.

Yes there are some people on this forum that may or may not know what they're talking about. There are also some top level competitors and gunsmiths that contribute. If you don't like the answers, may you should look at the question you ask rather than attacking the people trying to answer it.

[00bullitt]

I shoot my USPSA production Glock in ESP because it has a stippled grip and I prefer to shoot the same gun. I would prefer shoot it in SSP but stippling is not allowed. The guns in ESP are not faster than SSP....maybe some of the guys driving them are but the guns are not. I can hang my Production rig with the best of the best and so can many on this site.

My glock runs a 13# ISMI spring on a Jager guide rod. Polished factory trigger with an overtravel set screw and a good set of adjustable sights. My reloads are sub one second and my splits range in the .14-.18 range and I get my alphas and 0 down hits at full speed. I don't think I can speed my gun up any more than that. But I'm big on confidence. If modifying your gun the way you want boosts your confidence,go for the mods you suggest. Its all about what you as a shooter are confident you can accomplish with your gear. We are not all going to agree with you.

Just remember.....you can make the fastest gun in competition.....but if you can't drive it to its full ability.....its kinda worthless.

You also might want to ease up coming on here with less than 10 posts and jumping down peoples throats that have been on here assisting and sharing advice for quite longer than you've been shooting because you don't like the answers/advice they gave to your questions. Just a mere observation.

[Duane Thomas]

Has ESP Divison ever been won at the IDPA Nationals with anything other than a gun with a plastic grip? STI/SV/Glock/XD? I don't know much about IDPA but I doubt it.

Well, yes. Scott Warren won ESP with a Springfield .40.