LoneWolf Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 First I'd like to say thank you to Brian and all here - this forum is great . I've been reading as much as possible the past few months as I am new to reloading . I ordered the RL550B from Brian and it should be here any day now ! I took everyones advise and got the Hornady One Shot lube. My question is do you lube just the outside of the case or the inside as well ? I will be reloading for 9MM and this is what I have so far : Starline 9mm brass Rainier 124 gr RN plated Titegroup powder Federal SP primers If you have any suggestions or recipes I would appreciate them. Thanks again , Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 All you have to do is lubricate the outside of the cases- and it doesn't take much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Lubricating 9MM cases? I'm fairly new to loading 9MM (I've done maybe 4K), but I've never heard of this. The case is so small and straight, I can't think this is necesary. I've never had one stick, same for 40 and 45 I only lube rifle cases, and I could see Sig cases needing it, but for a straight wall pistol case? Thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Hello, First off, BarKim, lubing straight wall pistol cases isn't odd. While you have carbide dies and they won't stick, lubing them helps make things run smoother, especially on progressive presses where you have 4-7 operations happening at the same time (I love my 1050 ). LoneWolf. I take an empty cardboard box, throw the brass and spray the brass liberally, but like CSEMARTIN said, it doesn't take much. Then, with a lid on the box, shake the brass around. It seems to coat the brass a little more evenly and prevents 'gooping'. Then, just throw it in the hopper (on casefeeder presses) and load away. I've got loads coming out of the 1050 as good as having a 3.5 on the SD. The normal is around 8.0. I attribute a lot to the press and a consistent technique, but lubing the press and lubing the brass, helps with the consistency/precision of the reloading. Just my two Lincoln's. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 lubing them helps make things run smoother, especially on progressive presses Thanks for the tip, I went back and searched through, it's pretty common practice, just never heard of it. Makes lots of sense. Saw some good info from Brian on it. Now I tumble with walnut for ~ an hour, then with CornCob for ~ 2 hours - then I spray and coat? Do you wipe it off or leave it? What's the 3.5 vs 8.0 refering to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Just spray and go. As for the 3.5 and 8.0, it's the "SD" or Standard Deviation. It identifies the consistency/precision of the loads relative to one another. A better indicator than velocities. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 It is personal preference if you want to lube your pistol cases. Certainly not needed for straight wall pistol cases if you have a carbide sizer. I don't lube mine, just extra steps IMO. Put 1 tablespoon full of Metall in with your walnut hulls and it eliminates having to then tumble them in anything else. Look like little gold nuggets after a couple of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I'm always looking for ways to speed things up... But can't find a Metall reference, where's it come form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I get Metall at the hardware store.There are several varieties. Get the Aluminum polish, it works best. One pound can, about 8 bucks Find them at www.met-all.com A div of Aman& Co in Canal Fulton, Oh. That is all I have on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Lonewolf, Go to Brassmanbrass.com and check out his once fired police brass. It may save you a couple of cents a round and I have not had any problems with it other than having to throw away the occasional case that gets stepped on. I use one-shot to lube with the cases with and because it is a dry lube I do not clean the cases after I load them. Just a light spray on one side and then as uscbigdawg said I give the cardboard box a little shake. It makes things soooo smooth. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I am a One-shot believer since converting to 9x25 about 10 years ago. I once broke the lower pivot assembly on my 550 turning once fired 10mm into 9x25 cases and the guys at dillon recommended using case lube. It reduces the effort required to resize cases by about 75%. As other have mentioned, USE VERY LITTLE LUBE. You do not need to coat all sides of the cases and do not even have to get ANY lube on most of the cases. As you are loading the lube from one case stays on the sizer die and gets the job done for subsequent rounds. If every 5th case gets some lube on it somewhere you will be fine. Adding more will not help much but it will just cost you more money and will goop up your dies after a while. One shot will not harm your powder or primers and you do not have remove the wax before or after reloading. Many other lubes WILL make the powder and primers inert and MUST be removed before reloading the cases. This is a nasty job. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 What L9X25 said regarding not needing it on every case. When I am using the 550 I have a little box of lubed cases that I put in about every 4th to 5th case to keep things running smooth. On the 1050 I have to lube them all because of the case feeder. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Lonewolf, back to your original question (sorry for the thread drift). I've been using Zero 124 RN FMJ in my 9MM. I'm also using TiteGroup, and 4.0 grs gives me a PF of 132, with good grouping. It was also the cheapest powder by pound, with the bonus of needing less per round. I did loads of 3.6, 3.8, 4.0 and 4.2, then chronographed them all. 4.0 gave Min: 1043fps Max 1080fps, with a SD (over 10 rounds) of 11fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Great advise ! I remember prior to ordering my 550 I read a section where Brian highly recommended lubing to make less wear and tear on the brass as well as the press (the reason I got the lube). I really like the idea of using a lubed case every 5 or so - great idea - I guess the lube would get built up on the dies. Thank you all Did anyone else have any recipes using the components that I have ? ( thanks BarKim) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 BarKim, Good loading. The unit for standard deviation though isn't 'fps'. It's just a numerical indicator. 11 isn't bad for a pistol caliber (I think that's right around factory ammunition) and especially for 9mm (not inherently a consistent round balistically). Good job. Tightloop. You're correct that you don't have to lube with a carbide resizer (I have yet to see a set of pistol caliber dies that didn't have one) but it's not that much time and it just makes life easy. I load about 2000 rounds per hour on the 1050 now, so an extra 30 seconds to squirt brass in a box isn't going to kill me. It's filling the damn powder dispenser that slows me down. Thank goodness for primer tube loaders. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 OK, I'm going to let my ignorance hang way out. I've been using a chrony since 1980 and have never heard that the standard deviation shown is shown in anything but FPS. Velocity is shown in fps, extreme spread in fps, why would standard deviation be in anything else. You state that it is just a numeric indicator. If so, it would have to be some kind of scale. If so, what is the scale called, what is the lowest number and what is the highest. How about it Guy Neill, have I been doing it wrong all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I could be wrong too. From a math standpoint, it doesn't make sense though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 From a math standpoint, it makes no sense to show standard deviation in anything but feet per second. Exactly my point.. Help me out here. I'm not a math whiz, but I would have bet my retirement that it was shown in feet per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I think that it has to be "fps" because the bullet is deviating by fps from average or standard. sd of 15 is no more than 15 fps from fastest to slowest bullet... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Alright got an answer. Old Shooter you're close, sort of. Standard deviation is the mean of the mean (like that makes any sense). The units are feet per second per shot. Basically, it's a gigantic pain in the butt, math wise. Thank goodness for chronographs. Talk about thread tangents. Tightloop...Call it a draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff89 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Lets see how much of my Stats class I remember... Standard deviation (SD) is a measure of the variability of whatever you are measuring. In our case we are measuring FPS so this is the right "label". If you do the math and find the average FPS from a set of data and you have the SD you know a few things... 1. About 68% of your loads will be plus or minus 1 standard deviation away from average 2. About 95% of your loads will be plus or minus 2 standard deviations away from average 3. About 99% of your loads will be plus or minus 3 standard deviations away from average For example... The average FPS is 900 and the standard deviation is 10. 68% of your loads will be between 890 and 910FPS 95% of your loads will be between 880 and 920FPS 99% of your loads will be between 870 and 930FPS Hope this helps and hasn't confused anyone more! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Standard Deviation is measured in feet per second, because we are measuring velocity in that same unit of measurement. Standard Deviation is the average of the deviations of all the shots measured in the sample string, no matter how many shots are sampled. The Ballistics Handbook by Jeffery Kolbe, page 704, Chapter: Variances and Standard Deviations. January 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Now that this horse has been beaten to death and everyone agreeing it's the same thing, can we move on? I'm moving on to the range. Hasta, Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Lubricating 9MM cases? I'm fairly new to loading 9MM (I've done maybe 4K), but I've never heard of this. The case is so small and straight, I can't think this is necesary. At the risk of seeming incredibly pedantic, I have to point out that the 9mm Parabellum is not a straight-walled pistol case. It's tapered, wider at base than case mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 jeff89, I think you have got the right answer... But it has been a long time since I thought about it. Duane, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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