Steel Challege Barrel for your M41

[mwx40x40]

GMan and other 41 shooters using CCI SV. Has anyone ever had any problems with reliability with this load. My 41 sometimes has a failure to extract with this load. Runs 100% with CCI Mini Mag and Rem Golden Bullet( when they go off).

I have heard mention of Wolff Spring kits for 41 that would allow tuning for different loads in 41 . Could it be that I need a lighter recoil spring to run SV ?

With this same barrel??

Nope , Factory 5.5". I just keep seeing where CCI Std seems to be the load of choice for 41's in general

[TG Reaper]

GMan and other 41 shooters using CCI SV. Has anyone ever had any problems with reliability with this load. My 41 sometimes has a failure to extract with this load. Runs 100% with CCI Mini Mag and Rem Golden Bullet( when they go off).

I have heard mention of Wolff Spring kits for 41 that would allow tuning for different loads in 41 . Could it be that I need a lighter recoil spring to run SV ?

With this same barrel??

Nope , Factory 5.5". I just keep seeing where CCI Std seems to be the load of choice for 41's in general

Try these three things to solve your problem with CCI SV:

1. Remove the slide from your pistol and remove the extractor, extractor spring and plunger. If you aren't comfortable detail stripping the slide to this degree, check out the M41 schematics available on Brownells. Make sure that the hole that contains the extractor spring and plunger is clean and free of any trash, and that the extractor spring and plunger slide freely in the hole. Also, make sure that the extractor moves freely in its slot. If it binds anywhere, simply polish the flats of the extractor with a fine india stone. If you have an older M41, now is the time to trash the extractor spring and replace with a new one.

2. Midway USA sells a variety of Wolff recoil springs for the M41, and I've found that the 6 lb spring works the best in the majority of the pistols I own, and all I shoot is CCI SV.

3. Take a brass wire brush and ensure that the breechface and boltface aren't gunked up with crud, and do the same with a chamber brush to ensure that the chamber is spic and span and not fouled so that it grabs the brass while trying to extract.

Most .22s function better when they are dirty and dry. The beauty of the M41 is that it likes to be clean and oiled. Spend a little time on RimfireCentral.com and you'll find that most die hard .22 shooters like Eezox oil, which works great on the M41 and can be purchased from Midway USA.

If these things don't solve your problem, I'd take your barrel to a competent gunsmith so he can measure your chamber. If it's too tight, re-reaming with a Bentz chamber reamer will probably help.

My M41's are as old as a 1959 model up to current production. All sport Bully Barrels by Ray-Vin and 6 lb Wolff recoil springs. Following the steps above, they are as close to 100% reliable as any pistol I've ever owned...

Hope this helps!

Good Shootin',

TGR

[G-ManBart]

My M41's are as old as a 1959 model up to current production. All sport Bully Barrels by Ray-Vin and 6 lb Wolff recoil springs. Following the steps above, they are as close to 100% reliable as any pistol I've ever owned...

1959? That's a young whippersnapper Here's my old guy....early 1958:

For anybody interested in detail stripping or doing basic maintenance on their M41, this is a great reference site with lots of pics and descriptions:

http://guntalk-online.com/Model41maintenance.htm

[TG Reaper]

Hey G-Man...

Thanks for that link! That is the link I used to learn the M41, but my laptop was stolen during a recent burglary and I had the link stored in my "favorites" folder. I couldn't remember the web address, so thanks for posting the address!

My new 1:16 SC barrels are in, but I haven't had a chance to mount them up for testing. They look GREAT!

Good Shootin',

TGR

[G-ManBart]

My new 1:16 SC barrels are in, but I haven't had a chance to mount them up for testing. They look GREAT!

Oh, make me jealous why don't you?

Do you think with all the free publicity this thread must have generated that Ray will set aside a choice 1:16 for me from a future batch?

[Fireant]

Hey you never know, but his last batch of 1:16's seems to have gone quick.

[TG Reaper]

I installed the 1:16 barrel on a newer M41 that I picked up, screwed a C-More Slide Ride on it, sighted it in and ran 300 rounds through it while test driving 10 new M41 mags. I didn't even change the recoil spring (as I usually do), and the gun ran without a hitch. Ammo was, of course, CCI SV. The trigger on this M41 sucked, so I didn't try to shoot any groups to see if I could reproduce the 25 and 50 yard test groups (both of which are under an inch).

I quickly hacked up the beautiful factory grips, eliminating the palm swell on the left grip panel with the belt sander. A little qrip tape on the front strap to aid in traction control, and I ran 20 runs on 5 to Go with the "untuned" M41 with the new 1:16 Bully Steel Challenge barrel. Despite the cruddy 3+ pound mushy trigger, my par time was about 2.25 seconds per run, with my fastest runs in the 2.0's. With no work, this 41 has a perfect ejection pattern.

A few hours later, this M41 now sports a 24 ounce trigger pull, no magazine disconnect, and tuned extractor. Tomorrow I'll see if these improvements have any effect on my times!

[jasmap]

I installed the 1:16 barrel on a newer M41 that I picked up, screwed a C-More Slide Ride on it, sighted it in and ran 300 rounds through it while test driving 10 new M41 mags. I didn't even change the recoil spring (as I usually do), and the gun ran without a hitch. Ammo was, of course, CCI SV. The trigger on this M41 sucked, so I didn't try to shoot any groups to see if I could reproduce the 25 and 50 yard test groups (both of which are under an inch).

I quickly hacked up the beautiful factory grips, eliminating the palm swell on the left grip panel with the belt sander. A little qrip tape on the front strap to aid in traction control, and I ran 20 runs on 5 to Go with the "untuned" M41 with the new 1:16 Bully Steel Challenge barrel. Despite the cruddy 3+ pound mushy trigger, my par time was about 2.25 seconds per run, with my fastest runs in the 2.0's. With no work, this 41 has a perfect ejection pattern.

A few hours later, this M41 now sports a 24 ounce trigger pull, no magazine disconnect, and tuned extractor. Tomorrow I'll see if these improvements have any effect on my times!

Any update on this Billy? I'm guessing that trigger job helped bring your times and averages down.

[G-ManBart]

I installed the 1:16 barrel on a newer M41 that I picked up, screwed a C-More Slide Ride on it, sighted it in and ran 300 rounds through it while test driving 10 new M41 mags. I didn't even change the recoil spring (as I usually do), and the gun ran without a hitch. Ammo was, of course, CCI SV. The trigger on this M41 sucked, so I didn't try to shoot any groups to see if I could reproduce the 25 and 50 yard test groups (both of which are under an inch).

I quickly hacked up the beautiful factory grips, eliminating the palm swell on the left grip panel with the belt sander. A little qrip tape on the front strap to aid in traction control, and I ran 20 runs on 5 to Go with the "untuned" M41 with the new 1:16 Bully Steel Challenge barrel. Despite the cruddy 3+ pound mushy trigger, my par time was about 2.25 seconds per run, with my fastest runs in the 2.0's. With no work, this 41 has a perfect ejection pattern.

A few hours later, this M41 now sports a 24 ounce trigger pull, no magazine disconnect, and tuned extractor. Tomorrow I'll see if these improvements have any effect on my times!

Any update on this Billy? I'm guessing that trigger job helped bring your times and averages down.

You can tune a stock M41 trigger down to about 2lbs just by popping the top off and using the built-in adjustment. You can find the step-by-step here:

http://guntalk-online.com/Model41maintenance.htm#trigadjust

[jasmap]

I installed the 1:16 barrel on a newer M41 that I picked up, screwed a C-More Slide Ride on it, sighted it in and ran 300 rounds through it while test driving 10 new M41 mags. I didn't even change the recoil spring (as I usually do), and the gun ran without a hitch. Ammo was, of course, CCI SV. The trigger on this M41 sucked, so I didn't try to shoot any groups to see if I could reproduce the 25 and 50 yard test groups (both of which are under an inch).

I quickly hacked up the beautiful factory grips, eliminating the palm swell on the left grip panel with the belt sander. A little qrip tape on the front strap to aid in traction control, and I ran 20 runs on 5 to Go with the "untuned" M41 with the new 1:16 Bully Steel Challenge barrel. Despite the cruddy 3+ pound mushy trigger, my par time was about 2.25 seconds per run, with my fastest runs in the 2.0's. With no work, this 41 has a perfect ejection pattern.

A few hours later, this M41 now sports a 24 ounce trigger pull, no magazine disconnect, and tuned extractor. Tomorrow I'll see if these improvements have any effect on my times!

Any update on this Billy? I'm guessing that trigger job helped bring your times and averages down.

You can tune a stock M41 trigger down to about 2lbs just by popping the top off and using the built-in adjustment. You can find the step-by-step here:

http://guntalk-online.com/Model41maintenance.htm#trigadjust

Well you already know I have an M41 on the way so you know I appreciate all the help. You and Billy have both been very helpful. Thanks for the link!

[Chuck Anderson]

Any word on the next run of Bully barrels? Looks like the last one he had is now on hold.

[bigger hammer]

They're pretty close to drop-in. …. Mine proved to be unusual in that I had to do a very slight bit of fitting at the front for the slide rails. I suspect that since the gun I used is a 1972 model there might be just a tiny bit of difference in the slide rails compared with newer guns. All I had to do was relieve the area where the slide rails meet the barrel....very easy. From what I've heard that's a first for these barrels, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I've shot about 1,000 rounds through my 41 since putting the Bully barrel on. I'm having massive reliability problems. I can't get through more than a couple of magazines without a problem except right after a thorough cleaning. Then it only lasts about 100 rounds before the malf's start. I'm about even with failures to fire from what look like light primer strikes and failures to extract. Occasionally there's a stovepipe (where the extracted round fails to clear the breech) (Limp wristing? LOL)

I've checked the extractor using THIS METHOD and it passes the test.

Before my last outing I stripped the slide and cleaned the top end thoroughly. It didn't make any difference.

Here's a list of ammo I've tried: Some were suggested by people here and some as recommended by some shooters locally.

• Remington Bulk (40 gr)
  
• CCI SV (Standard Velocity) (40 gr)
  
• CCI Mini Max (36 gr)
  
• American Eagle HV HP (38 gr)
  
• RWS Subsonic HP (40 gr)
  
• Lapua Subsonic (can't recall the bullet weight – it wouldn't cycle the action – turned the gun into a single shot)
  
• A couple of others that escape me at the moment
  

There was not a significant difference in reliability between any of them.

I keep the gun lubricated. It's most reliable right after being scrupulously cleaned but that lasts for less than 100 rounds, not enough to get through a SC match.

I'm seeing some indication of contact between the bottom of the barrel and the top of the "crossbar" that joins the two side of the slide rails at the front of the slide. The bottom of the barrel is becoming "polished." There was a slight bit of that with the old barrel – not as much with the Bully but a bit.

I bought the gun new in the early 1980s, it was made in 1981 and was shot moderately back then. I seem to recall some reliability problems then (the same kind as now) and a few trips to S&W that worked them out. It's been a safe queen since then. I'm thinking that the springs might be a bit tired; especially the mainspring, since it sat for quite some time with the hammer cocked. I'm thinking about getting a replacement set from Brownell's (I think they carry the Wolf set).

I'm VERY satisfied with accuracy, transitions and all the rest, even for an old hack like me. But the malf's are making me very unhappy. Sometimes I can't even get through a magazine without a couple of them.

Sorry for the length of this, I tried to anticipate any questions.

Suggestions?

Lou

[Jaxshooter]

I am not at all familiar with the Bully barrells. I do have experience with the Clark Custom 41 barrels. With some the bore does not line up properlyin the center of the frame causing the firing pin to be misalinged with the the bore. If you get a barrel from Clark and have this problem they will factory fit it at no charge. I don't know if this could be the problem with your barrel but you might look and see if the bore is centered within the frame.

[bigger hammer]

Thanks Jaxshooter. This does not appear to be the problem as when I do get good ignition, the firing pin strikes are centered on the cartridge rim, and run vertically. They look identical to the strikes when the original barrel is in use.

Lou

[G-ManBart]

I'm VERY satisfied with accuracy, transitions and all the rest, even for an old hack like me. But the malf's are making me very unhappy. Sometimes I can't even get through a magazine without a couple of them.

Sorry for the length of this, I tried to anticipate any questions.

Suggestions?

Lou

There are a couple of things I'd check right off the bat. Make 100% certain that the slide is going all the way forward and you can't see any daylight between the back of the barrel and the slide/breachface. Have a bright light on the far side and make sure it's really flush fitting. Mine required some metal removal where the front of the slide rail extensions meet up with the barrel just behind the compensator. The front and inside front of the slide rails were making contact with the barrel and the slide wouldn't go all the way forward. The gun would have fired like that but I doubt it would have extracted reliably and it very well could have caused light strike problems or failures to fire.

I'd also order one of the Wolf recoil spring calibration kits. Throw a 6 or 6.5lb recoil spring in it and see what happens, but make sure you've already checked the slide/barrel issue above first. A new hammer spring isn't a bad idea, but my Bully setup gun is about 10yrs older than yours and it lights everything just fine, so I doubt that's the problem. R,

[bigger hammer]

Make 100% certain that the slide is going all the way forward and you can't see any daylight between the back of the barrel and the slide/breachface.

Checked this. The top of the bolt is making good contact with the face of the barrel. In fact it's peening it a bit. There was about .008" of light visible under the extractor between the breech face and the barrel.

The front and inside front of the slide rails were making contact with the barrel and the slide wouldn't go all the way forward.

There was some contact between the front edges of the slide rails and the shoulders of the "underlug" of the barrel. I removed metal until that contact didn't exist any longer. I can now put a piece of paper between the slide rails and that underlug and pull it out without any grabbing of the paper. But there's still about .002" of light visible between the breech face and the barrel. The face of the bolt protrudes from the slide about .009" so I don't think I can completely eliminate that gap.

I'll get to the range next week and report back if this fixed the problem. Thanks for the assist.

[MILDOTS]

I was lucky enough to get the last barrel #125. Thank you TG REAPER for the info. I put the the barrel on my vintage '61 mod 41. I did not have any sv ammo except for Remington I shot 300 rounds the only problems I had was trying to sight in the C-more. The barrel shot great. I had some reservations about the1:8 twist but after talking to Ray he convinced me.

What a great guy to do business with. I shot my last 5 shots @ 50 yards over a rest and it measured .88 very impressive for me with my current eyesite and skill level. I have not shot this gun in 25 years since I quit shooting bullseye.

This is going to be fun.

[G-ManBart]

I was lucky enough to get the last barrel #125. Thank you TG REAPER for the info.

Hey, I started the thread Just teasing!

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. Everyone that I've had shoot mine just laughs at how silly-fun this combo is to shoot! It's certainly not a cheap barrel, but I think it's worth every penny and should last for years and years. R,

[jasmap]

Well Bart I give credit to you for getting me interested with your info and the PM's about the Model 41 and TG Reaper (Billy) for pushing me over the edge and even showing me where to find the Model 41 I eventually bought.

These guns are stupid easy and fun to shoot. I thought I had a couple of fun little .22's til I shot the Model 41 and I realized my other guns suck.

[bigger hammer]

Range Report

I went to the range earlier this week and found that there was still some contact between the slide rails and the barrel. Took some more metal off but still had problems with failures to extract and failures to fire.

I sent off to Brownells for some parts, a recoil spring, a mainspring, an extractor spring, a firing pin spring and an extractor. The old recoil spring was about an inch shorter than the new one and definitely felt tired. I replaced the old extractor with the new one but it was binding in the slot. It was about 0.0045" thicker than the old one so I thinned it down with some sandpaper on a flat surface and then polished it. Then I reblued and replaced it. It moved freely in the slot then. I put in all the new springs and went to the range. Just got home a few mins ago.

The gun still does not like anything from the list with the exception of CCI Mini Mag but it functions very reliably with that. FINALLY.

Thanks for the help Bart and a few others who made suggestions.

Lou

[MILDOTS]

GMan my bad, Thank you. Its the best $500 I've spent in a long time! I forgot to ad that I also rec. my Herrett( arched) trainer grips and they are awsome makes the gun feel lik a 1911. I got that off of this forum also. Now I have to find some ammo!

[G-ManBart]

GMan my bad, Thank you. Its the best $500 I've spent in a long time! I forgot to ad that I also rec. my Herrett( arched) trainer grips and they are awsome makes the gun feel lik a 1911. I got that off of this forum also. Now I have to find some ammo!

LOL....I was really just teasin' ya. Seriously, TGR was the driving force behind getting these barrels made so he deserves a TON of credit. I had the same idea but hadn't gotten around to talking to Ray about it. Glad someone wasn't dragging their feet!

Check out the guy "Ammunitioncenter" on Gun Broker. I bought a case of CCI SV from him for $295 delivered not long ago. He doesn't always have it, but lately he has. Send him an e-mail from one of his other auctions and ask about the CCI SV and he'll probably give you a number to call him at. R,

[bigger hammer]

I just read several threads in the archives about cleaning compensators. None of them addressed this comp so I thought I'd ask here about methods that others are using.

Obviously suggestions to use FMJ bullets to shoot it loose aren't going to work here.

The barrel is SS but I don't know what the comp is made of so I'm hesitant to try the suggestion about 50-50 vinegar and hydrogen peroxide.

Suggestions please?

Lou

[G-ManBart]

I just read several threads in the archives about cleaning compensators. None of them addressed this comp so I thought I'd ask here about methods that others are using.

Obviously suggestions to use FMJ bullets to shoot it loose aren't going to work here.

The barrel is SS but I don't know what the comp is made of so I'm hesitant to try the suggestion about 50-50 vinegar and hydrogen peroxide.

Suggestions please?

Lou

Has yours leaded up badly? Maybe I haven't put enough rounds through mine to have a problem yet, but ti's stayed pretty cool.

The comp is made of Aluminum. R,

[bigger hammer]

They sure have. The center holes on the left and right sides are completely plugged. The holes on both ends on the left and right, are about half plugged and all three of the holes in the center of the comp are about 75% blocked.

The deposits are pretty hard and don't yield to a plastic "digging tool" at all so I don't think it's powder residue. I've also tried with a steel dental pick but it ain't moving.

I've seen the recommendations to use a Dremel with a round ball but hesitate on that because I don't want to deform the holes in the comp, especially now that I know that the comp is aluminum.

Mostly I've fired the recommended CCI Mini mags. I've shot about 2,000 – 3,000 rounds.