Model19 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Question for ya: I have an older M19-3, mid '70's built I think, and the front sight appears to be machined as part of the barrel. How could I go about getting this modified so I can have a more modern eye friendly sight system? I have painted the ramp yellow, which helps a bit, and I'm thinking of filing the rear blade into a wider notch or semi-circle shape as a DIY fix. And there are NO, ZERO, NUTHIN', pistolsmiths near me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 If you can find a good machinist, have the front sight milled off, a .200 deep x .125 slot milled and put on a pin-on sight of your choice. Measure the height of the front sight before milling and get the closest replacement sight. It is better to go a little taller rather than shorter. Get the replacement sight first and have the slot milled to accept the half moon part of the sight. The slot can be done with an endmill or a keyway cutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Or have one of the Weigand systems installed and have options a plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Or have one of the Weigand systems installed and have options a plenty. This is the way to go. I just had it done to my second revolver. It gives you all the options available for the S&W "Classic" front sight. This is my 1955 target USPSA Revolver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Keep in mind that even if the front sight appears to be machined as part of the barrel, it probably is not. Most of them were in fact pinned, although they do the polishing and finishing after the sight is pinned in place, making the pin hard to see--sometimes nearly impossible to find. For example, the Model 25-2 (like RGS's blued gun pictured directly above) had a pinned front sight. If your 19 has a pinned sight, and you can find the pin and drift it out, it will allow you to install an aftermarket front sight (the SDM fiber/optic, for example) with simple hand tools if you're a little handy, rather than sending the gun out for machine work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Keep in mind that even if the front sight appears to be machined as part of the barrel, it probably is not. Most of them were in fact pinned, although they do the polishing and finishing after the sight is pinned in place, making the pin hard to see--sometimes nearly impossible to find. For example, the Model 25-2 (like RGS's blued gun pictured directly above) had a pinned front sight. If your 19 has a pinned sight, and you can find the pin and drift it out, it will allow you to install an aftermarket front sight (the SDM fiber/optic, for example) with simple hand tools if you're a little handy, rather than sending the gun out for machine work. No pin is visible, but maybe I'll look closer again. Is there a way to tell from the serial # and the mfg date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Many old 70's Smiths had a front sight block copper braised to the barrel on top of the serrations on the barrel. These were not pinned at all. I have an early M15 from the same era and no there is not a pinned front sight, just a sight riser with a machined front sight. If the serrations run under the sight riser then it is braised onto the barrel. Look at the muzzle and breech ends of the front sight riser. I have used a stereo microscope at 35X magnification with both direct light and a ring illumination and there is no pin but at that magnification I can see where the front sight is machined from the riser block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Many old 70's Smiths had a front sight block copper braised to the barrel on top of the serrations on the barrel. These were not pinned at all. I have an early M15 from the same era and no there is not a pinned front sight, just a sight riser with a machined front sight. If the serrations run under the sight riser then it is braised onto the barrel. Look at the muzzle and breech ends of the front sight riser. I have used a stereo microscope at 35X magnification with both direct light and a ring illumination and there is no pin but at that magnification I can see where the front sight is machined from the riser block. +1 the Bangor Punta and Lear Siegler (sp?) guns usually had no pins. The 1955 Target I pictured above also had no pins. Many of the older sights were like these where the entire blade and base were pinned in. Those pins are almost impossible to find. Edited March 26, 2009 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Is there a way to tell from the serial # and the mfg date? Call Customer Service at S&W with the ser number and a lot of times they can look it up if they are not jammed at the time you call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Know somebody who works where they do non-destructive penetrant inspection? Some transmission shops, some speed shops, drill collar inspection, aircraft repairs come to mind. Penetrant testing will find the pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Many old 70's Smiths had a front sight block copper braised to the barrel on top of the serrations on the barrel. These were not pinned at all. I have an early M15 from the same era and no there is not a pinned front sight, just a sight riser with a machined front sight. If the serrations run under the sight riser then it is braised onto the barrel. Look at the muzzle and breech ends of the front sight riser. I have used a stereo microscope at 35X magnification with both direct light and a ring illumination and there is no pin but at that magnification I can see where the front sight is machined from the riser block. +1 the Bangor Punta and Lear Siegler (sp?) guns usually had no pins. The 1955 Target I pictured above also had no pins. Many of the older sights were like these where the entire blade and base were pinned in. Those pins are almost impossible to find. I eyeballed it again this morning and can see no sign of a pin. The sight on the bottom right in that photo, were the entire ramp assembly is pinned on looks like what I may have minus the red insert. But the serrations look like they flow unbroken from the top of the barrel up the sight block ramp. They sure did some fine machine work on these older pieces. Looks like it'll come down to some machining no matter what I decide. I like the Weigand idea. Had never heard of them. Thanks for the tip. I'm going to use this old 19 until it's tired, so I have no fear of modifying it as needed. I buy 'em to use, not to polish and keep in a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) I like the Weigand idea. Had never heard of them. Thanks for the tip. Jack Weigand is one of the better gunsmiths whose work I have always admired. I wish he was still doing his custom work. He now has a product line of specialty parts. He is a real gentleman to deal with. Here is a link to Jack Weigand Edited March 26, 2009 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stipo Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 +1 on the "Weigand as a good guy to deal with". He sent me some scope mounts for the Master's last summer. He was very nice to speak to on the phone. Stipo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earplug Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I have made my own gold bead sights and fiber tube sights with a dremel cut off wheel and a file. Have done it on the current crop of pin on blades. I have a M-15 that i'm tinkering with the idea of doing some sort of sight work. If you don't have a gunsmith nearby, you won't lose anything by trying to modify your current sight. If you blow it then you can go find a machine shop. You might even find a good jeweler that can do a gold insert. I aways wanted a thin gold wire running down the ramp with a bead/dot at the top. Many older shooters had gold beads installed decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldchar Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Just one caution on the Weigand front sight. I have one on my Model 17 and love it but it is tall and on the back site I had to go to the largest or next largest blade, normally on N frame, to make the sights work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey357 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I've actually seen the Weigand Interchangeable Front Base installed TWO ways...the more "Expedient" way is to just D&T the barrel after milling off the original sight base, and screw it on...the more "Pleasing" installation involves milling a recessed "Channel" for the Weigand base--as illustrated in SDM Fabricating's EXCELLENT Pictorial on the subject, on their website--THEN intalling it...the Weigand Base then appears to be part of the barrel, rather than just sit on top of it...looks more "Original" that way, PLUS gets the front sight a tad lower... FWIW, the Weigand Front Sights come in at least three different heights, IIRC--.200 inch high, .250 inch high and .300 inch high...HTH....mikey357 Just one caution on the Weigand front sight. I have one on my Model 17 and love it but it is tall and on the back site I had to go to the largest or next largest blade, normally on N frame, to make the sights work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 You can also mill some off the bottom of the base, then put it in the groove or channel to make it even lower. I have done a few of these bases - They work great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20nickels Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 If you can find a good machinist, have the front sight milled off, a .200 deep x .125 slot milled and put on a pin-onsight of your choice. Measure the height of the front sight before milling and get the closest replacement sight. It is better to go a little taller rather than shorter. Get the replacement sight first and have the slot milled to accept the half moon part of the sight. The slot can be done with an endmill or a keyway cutter. I've been looking into fabricating my own sight slot. Where can I find an endmill or keyhole cutter. Brownells search ends with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 use-enco.com or mscdirect.com or www.mcmaster.com. Use a 3/32 or other undersize endmill to take out most of the material and a 1/8 endmill to finish. That way the slot will be right on size and not oversize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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